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Ratings v Leicester and MotM

Man of the Match?

  • Lloris

    Votes: 14 5.6%
  • Walker

    Votes: 5 2.0%
  • Alderweireld

    Votes: 5 2.0%
  • Vertonghen

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Davies

    Votes: 2 0.8%
  • Mason

    Votes: 38 15.3%
  • Dier

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • Dembele

    Votes: 85 34.3%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 7 2.8%
  • Chadli

    Votes: 5 2.0%
  • Kane

    Votes: 19 7.7%
  • Alli

    Votes: 64 25.8%
  • Carroll

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • Bentaleb

    Votes: 2 0.8%

  • Total voters
    248

EastLondonYid

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2010
7,837
16,145
It's a Tragedy, but not quite a Greek one

I have a huge problem with Pochettino's continued selection of Dier at CM, especially in a CM2. If you want to play high tempo football, press close and aggressively, and transition quickly and with progressive purpose, then the selection of Dier in the CM2 fundamentally contradicts that philosophy. The other problem is that Pochettino likes to get everyone bombing forward including the FB's, and Dier is just not mobile or dynamic enough to cover everyone's arses, as we saw when their guy walked passed him for his booking. And he continues to give the ball away in very dangerous areas and did so at least three times today.

That's the only major selection grumble, but it is still quite a major grumble, as for me the CM is the engine that drives the footballing machine.

This was always going to be a very difficult test. Leicester have been bang on form for a long time, going back to the end of the season and their tales were up, their fans giving it large. Tough atmosphere and a test of character.

Particularly under those circumstances, I thought we were generally pretty good in the first half. We utterly dominated the game, imposed our game on them, most worked hard, they didn't have a single shot on target and but for the omnipresent fuckery of great situations or the fuckery of the pre great situations we could have gone in up.

Walker was abysmal first half. Defensively terrible, comically allowing two of their players to stroll past him on separate occasions (Albrighton was one) he had a few chances to put in crosses and they were all piss poor but worse is that we got him one v one several times but every time he refuses to take it and drive at their defender, always choosing to turn back inside into the Leicester bus park grid lock. He's not a good defender, he's not clever offensively but he also bottles using his pace to try and drive something and make something happen. I thought he was very good in second half, played a great ball for Chadli and defended much better, but the deficiencies and his inability to develop and improve his deficiencies means we must replace him and soon. I understand why he's still around, his pace gets him up and down and his position keeps him involved, but in this system, with inverted AM's the full back must deliver more than Walker delivers, especially when we are getting him continually into good attacking positions. It is pivotal to the strategy Pochettino is trying to employ.

Davies is not much better either, defensively he always looks surprised by what attacking players do, he often seems to be a split second behind the opponents moves, and unlike Walker, he doesn't even have the pace to occasionally make up for it. And going forward he generally offers knish. And he really should have won the header that lead to Mahrez's equaliser (more of which later).

The second half became a bit more of a messy affair than the first, but we were still the better side. It was getting more open, and space was now a bit easier to come by. I think the game was absolutely crying out for someone like Carroll to come on for Lamela or Dembele, a player who could help us retain poession up the pitch, plays with his head up and is better than most the AM's we have at finding incisive passes between little gaps. I wouldn't have minded Alli or Onomah coming on for Dier, but Dembele was starting to flag (and head up incision is not his "thang" anyway) and we really needed a bit of craft.

Taking Mason off not Dier, was fucking bonkers IMO. Dier had been treading water and was also on a yellow.

Credit to Alli for his goal. He was in in the thick of it in the centre circle at the start of the move, Kane did brilliantly to drive the move forward leaving three defenders in his wake and then having the presence of mind to lay it off (having already been guilty of his usual quota of selfish head down inappropriate shots), Chadli was probably aiming for Kane but Alli had bust his bollocks to get on the end of the move (and also credit for him to checking to keep himself onside - which he clearly did).

It was a cracking team goal and a deserved and hard earned lead.

What happens next was cruel, and owed a lot to a piece of individual skill, but there were three elements of self destruction that can't be ignored. We were very lethargic from their kick off. Chadli seems to be nowhere when the ball comes to his side. Davies has to win the header or at least clear out Vardy, and then I want to subsection my next query:

Tactical preparation query:

Surely our team, and especially defenders are prepared for the individual opponents we/they will be facing. Mahrez is very much left footed. Vardy right. In the first half the only dangerous moment came when Vertonghen shows on oncoming (into the box) Vardy outside onto his (stronger) right. The goal was a tough call and Vertonghen is left exposed by davies and Chadli's fuck ups, but surely you know Mahrez wants to come inside onto his left - if you have been prepared well. If it was me (and I used to apply this always when playing one footed players - which was most - even at my own amateur club/pub/5-a-side level) I'd be showing Mahrez outside onto his weaker foot for various reasons. It'sgoing to become much harder for him to score from wider angle, much harder for him to do something (shoot/cross/pass) with his weaker foot and there will be cover for what happens next. So I ask the question:

Was Vertonghen prepared properly by the coaching team. If he wasn't it's poor coaching. Even if he wasn't, he's a clever lad, I think he should make that split decision better. IMO.

I think Pochettino is still sticking a tactical finger up his own arse at times, the continued selection of Dier is so counter intuitive, and his subs are banal at best, tactical cluster fucks at worst, and we seem to turn to jelly every time an opponent scores, this must be addressed from the coaches, like when AVB immediately got to grips with conceding late goals.

But that doesn't change the fact that there are some good traits going on too. For 80 minutes of this match we dominated the ball and, despite it not always being cohesive and coordinated, we worked pretty hard without the ball. We could have gone up there and been intimidated by the partizan crown and and in form team, but we didn't, we tried to impose our game on them, and pretty much succeeded. Just a bit of guile at either end was lacking.

Individual stuff:

Lloris - fuck all to do. Saved 1 out of 2.

Walker - Fucking abysmal first half. Inept offensively and defensively slapstick. Much better second half, played a great ball for Chadli and defended well.

Alderweireld - Good game.

Vertonghen - Good game in general but the two moments I highlighted above. I think he should show Mahrez outside for the goal, his being the final fuck in a cluster.

Davies - Fucking underwhelmed by this guy. Defensively and offensively always seems to be half a yard behind whatever's going on.

Dier - Pretty poor in lots of ways. It's not his fault, he shouldn't be there.

Mason - Good game.

Dembele/Lamela - Both worked hard with and without the ball but neither produced anything creative of note and Lamela collected a stupid yellow card. I like he's tenacious and gets his foot in, but if he's going to pick up cards they need to be worthy, not stupid and needless.

Chadli - His usual melange of dimwitted careless waste speckled with moments of inspiration. Worked a bit better off the ball but still a weal link defensively.

Kane - Great play for the goal, but also some really head down selfishness. I don't think he's working as hard as he used without the ball, pressing etc and he's also seeing less of the ball. If he's going to develop into an uber striker, and he has the potential he's got to make better decisions and work the defenders more off the ball.

Alli - Wasn't really heavily involved in general but great run into the box for his goal.


TBH i was going to rate your post a winner, i even agree about your Walker rating, well sort of.

The reason you didn't get a winner is you mentioned Lamela and the word 'like' in the same sentence.
Yesterday was as bad as it gets imo.


Tenacious? gets his foot in? he looks like a dog chasing its own tail....enough please!!! lets give Pritchard a chance i've seen enough of Lamela thank you...
 

Larryjanta

Well-Known Member
Apr 22, 2014
1,953
5,040
I didn't think we were *that* bad but neither did I think we were good. Should have held on, we desperately need a proper second striker to play with Kane as Lamela and Chadli left him too isolated. We could also do with a player like Mahrez (which I've been saying for a year).

Very good: Mason (MOTM), played everything forward, some wonderful passes and, fuck me he throws himself about, Dembele (think playing in the right sided 4 of a diamond, which is what I thought we played today, is his best position)

Good: Dier (he's not a DM but he plays the role to the best of his abilities which is all I ask for), Hugo, Alli

Average, Poch and everyone who is not...

Poor: Chadli, good assist but slowed everything down when he was playing as a number 10. Oh, Lammy. I want you to work out so much but, well, think it's getting about that time we put you out to pastures new for all our sakes :-(
 

Norse

Member
Sep 13, 2009
279
182
Verthonghen was set up by Mahrez previous shot, according to the TV-analysts over here. That why he covered the inside, the right foot, which as was a mistake, as Bus-conducter pointed out.
 

Norse

Member
Sep 13, 2009
279
182
He gave us 13 goals from midfield last season, albeit being in and out of games. And despite your assertion that he is doing fuck all so far this season, he has scored 1 and assisted 1 in 3 games. If that is not enough, then maybe we should get messi or ronaldo. Name me 1 other player in the premier league who plays as a midfielder and scores that many goals and makes assists like chadli. You wont find many, if there are indeed any.
Problem is that without Eriksen and Kane, he is not very effective. I only really think we have three players who are top four quality. Lloris is the third, obviously.
 

THOWIG

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2005
6,499
8,329
Let's be honest I think most people were expecting a loss yesterday. I think we showed a lot of character ultimately.
I understand some of the criticism aimed at the Managers selections, but we still have some very average players.
 

slartibartfast

Grunge baby forever
Oct 21, 2012
18,320
33,955
It's a Tragedy, but not quite a Greek one

I have a huge problem with Pochettino's continued selection of Dier at CM, especially in a CM2. If you want to play high tempo football, press close and aggressively, and transition quickly and with progressive purpose, then the selection of Dier in the CM2 fundamentally contradicts that philosophy. The other problem is that Pochettino likes to get everyone bombing forward including the FB's, and Dier is just not mobile or dynamic enough to cover everyone's arses, as we saw when their guy walked passed him for his booking. And he continues to give the ball away in very dangerous areas and did so at least three times today.

That's the only major selection grumble, but it is still quite a major grumble, as for me the CM is the engine that drives the footballing machine.

This was always going to be a very difficult test. Leicester have been bang on form for a long time, going back to the end of the season and their tales were up, their fans giving it large. Tough atmosphere and a test of character.

Particularly under those circumstances, I thought we were generally pretty good in the first half. We utterly dominated the game, imposed our game on them, most worked hard, they didn't have a single shot on target and but for the omnipresent fuckery of great situations or the fuckery of the pre great situations we could have gone in up.

Walker was abysmal first half. Defensively terrible, comically allowing two of their players to stroll past him on separate occasions (Albrighton was one) he had a few chances to put in crosses and they were all piss poor but worse is that we got him one v one several times but every time he refuses to take it and drive at their defender, always choosing to turn back inside into the Leicester bus park grid lock. He's not a good defender, he's not clever offensively but he also bottles using his pace to try and drive something and make something happen. I thought he was very good in second half, played a great ball for Chadli and defended much better, but the deficiencies and his inability to develop and improve his deficiencies means we must replace him and soon. I understand why he's still around, his pace gets him up and down and his position keeps him involved, but in this system, with inverted AM's the full back must deliver more than Walker delivers, especially when we are getting him continually into good attacking positions. It is pivotal to the strategy Pochettino is trying to employ.

Davies is not much better either, defensively he always looks surprised by what attacking players do, he often seems to be a split second behind the opponents moves, and unlike Walker, he doesn't even have the pace to occasionally make up for it. And going forward he generally offers knish. And he really should have won the header that lead to Mahrez's equaliser (more of which later).

The second half became a bit more of a messy affair than the first, but we were still the better side. It was getting more open, and space was now a bit easier to come by. I think the game was absolutely crying out for someone like Carroll to come on for Lamela or Dembele, a player who could help us retain poession up the pitch, plays with his head up and is better than most the AM's we have at finding incisive passes between little gaps. I wouldn't have minded Alli or Onomah coming on for Dier, but Dembele was starting to flag (and head up incision is not his "thang" anyway) and we really needed a bit of craft.

Taking Mason off not Dier, was fucking bonkers IMO. Dier had been treading water and was also on a yellow.

Credit to Alli for his goal. He was in in the thick of it in the centre circle at the start of the move, Kane did brilliantly to drive the move forward leaving three defenders in his wake and then having the presence of mind to lay it off (having already been guilty of his usual quota of selfish head down inappropriate shots), Chadli was probably aiming for Kane but Alli had bust his bollocks to get on the end of the move (and also credit for him to checking to keep himself onside - which he clearly did).

It was a cracking team goal and a deserved and hard earned lead.

What happens next was cruel, and owed a lot to a piece of individual skill, but there were three elements of self destruction that can't be ignored. We were very lethargic from their kick off. Chadli seems to be nowhere when the ball comes to his side. Davies has to win the header or at least clear out Vardy, and then I want to subsection my next query:

Tactical preparation query:

Surely our team, and especially defenders are prepared for the individual opponents we/they will be facing. Mahrez is very much left footed. Vardy right. In the first half the only dangerous moment came when Vertonghen shows on oncoming (into the box) Vardy outside onto his (stronger) right. The goal was a tough call and Vertonghen is left exposed by davies and Chadli's fuck ups, but surely you know Mahrez wants to come inside onto his left - if you have been prepared well. If it was me (and I used to apply this always when playing one footed players - which was most - even at my own amateur club/pub/5-a-side level) I'd be showing Mahrez outside onto his weaker foot for various reasons. It'sgoing to become much harder for him to score from wider angle, much harder for him to do something (shoot/cross/pass) with his weaker foot and there will be cover for what happens next. So I ask the question:

Was Vertonghen prepared properly by the coaching team. If he wasn't it's poor coaching. Even if he wasn't, he's a clever lad, I think he should make that split decision better. IMO.

I think Pochettino is still sticking a tactical finger up his own arse at times, the continued selection of Dier is so counter intuitive, and his subs are banal at best, tactical cluster fucks at worst, and we seem to turn to jelly every time an opponent scores, this must be addressed from the coaches, like when AVB immediately got to grips with conceding late goals.

But that doesn't change the fact that there are some good traits going on too. For 80 minutes of this match we dominated the ball and, despite it not always being cohesive and coordinated, we worked pretty hard without the ball. We could have gone up there and been intimidated by the partizan crown and and in form team, but we didn't, we tried to impose our game on them, and pretty much succeeded. Just a bit of guile at either end was lacking.

Individual stuff:

Lloris - fuck all to do. Saved 1 out of 2.

Walker - Fucking abysmal first half. Inept offensively and defensively slapstick. Much better second half, played a great ball for Chadli and defended well.

Alderweireld - Good game.

Vertonghen - Good game in general but the two moments I highlighted above. I think he should show Mahrez outside for the goal, his being the final fuck in a cluster.

Davies - Fucking underwhelmed by this guy. Defensively and offensively always seems to be half a yard behind whatever's going on.

Dier - Pretty poor in lots of ways. It's not his fault, he shouldn't be there.

Mason - Good game.

Dembele/Lamela - Both worked hard with and without the ball but neither produced anything creative of note and Lamela collected a stupid yellow card. I like he's tenacious and gets his foot in, but if he's going to pick up cards they need to be worthy, not stupid and needless.

Chadli - His usual melange of dimwitted careless waste speckled with moments of inspiration. Worked a bit better off the ball but still a weal link defensively.

Kane - Great play for the goal, but also some really head down selfishness. I don't think he's working as hard as he used without the ball, pressing etc and he's also seeing less of the ball. If he's going to develop into an uber striker, and he has the potential he's got to make better decisions and work the defenders more off the ball.

Alli - Wasn't really heavily involved in general but great run into the box for his goal.
You're bang on with some very good points there, particularly Verts Mason Dier and Gerbil face himself.
Disagree with Lamela but sure that doesn't come as a shock lol.
Kane is being given nothing. Starved of service so much that giving him scraps would be an improvement.
Think Walker was ok. Not great but better defensively which is his main role.
Good post (y)
 

Gilzeanking

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2005
6,093
5,019
Its fashionable in these parts to deride possession , but it has to be said that this match had banana skin written all over it .A feisty small club on a roll .

Leaving aside all the numerous understandable gripes for a sec , we really did strangle Leicester for most of the match , hardly any shots and few attacks . Not that its pretty to watch mind .

The downside of this strangulation is there is bugger all room for our attackers . Kane (6) always had several oppo players right on him if he ever received the ball...the outcome being that we have few chances too . One can see why there are complaints about the entertainment levels .

So... Poch(6) set out to strangle Leicester...and did it effectively . We have to give him that . Another plus is that unlike the Stoke match there were'nt so many point blank oppo headers .

Whatever forward we get is in for a shock when he finds out how little room our system will give him..poor bugger .

None of the players seemed to be playing particularly well and the complaints all over this thread are well justified..

However , this, almost Kettling of the oppo was effective and if we get a goalscorer to nick a goal regularly here and there , we may start picking up points .

The challenge for the Spurs fan will be staying awake .
 

The Scarecrow

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2013
5,597
12,201
So that makes it OK? He's rubbish and we're not going anywhere with him around.
That is a ridiculous statement. It's football. Goals are alle that counts. If you have a player that actually contributes quite a lot to those goals, it reeks of mere stupidity to call him rubbish.
 

Pedro

Blue & Yellow
Jan 4, 2005
2,039
1,355
What does Chadli do for us? He got his goal last week, he assisted us this week but thats the problem with half the people on this site. They see him do something alright and they praise him but they forget the other 85% of the time he does fuck all and is a average player.

Needs to be replaced with someone who can do the job all of the time.
Yeah, what did the Romans ever do for us?

 
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