The Daily ITK Discussion Thread 20th May 2016

talkshowhost86 · May 20, 2016

Stoof said:
But all deals are structured finance deals. Not too many lump sum merchants around.

I suppose it's still easier to structure a deal saying you'll pay in installments when you've got an additional £35m sitting in the bank account though.

But yeah I don't expect it to make a massive difference. As ever those who are prepared to spend over-the-odds on players will get their men early. Most will have to wait until the end of the window.

CockOnBall · May 20, 2016

talkshowhost86 said:
I suppose it's still easier to structure a deal saying you'll pay in installments when you've got an additional £35m sitting in the bank account though.

But yeah I don't expect it to make a massive difference. As ever those who are prepared to spend over-the-odds on players will get their men early. Most will have to wait until the end of the window.

I agree that such deals are rarely structured, especially by Levy, but it's some thing we can do which perhaps competitors in Europe can't. It was negotiated by the pl clubs so there is some intent there at least. I hope it results in some early deals. Poch's pre season seems more coordinated than say Harry so last minute deals rarely get players making an instant and sustained impact in this team.

Bus-Conductor · May 20, 2016

CockOnBall said:
Talent wise, I'd put Bentaleb above Mason and Carroll but all three are perhaps short of the quality required. The benchmark being Dembele, the man they have to back up/shift. I wouldn't say they are anywhere near his level and while a back up is rarely as good as the first pick, they are too far below that standard.

Dembele is 28, and has just had his first decent consistent EPL season as a cm, Bentaleb is 20 and has already had one of those. I think it's a bit premature to be saying Bentaleb can't get near Dembele's benchmark isn't it?

cockeral · May 20, 2016

Bus-Conductor said:
Dembele is 28, and has just had his first decent consistent EPL season as a cm, Bentaleb is 20 and has already had one of those. I think it's a bit premature to be saying Bentaleb can't get near Dembele's benchmark isn't it?

Think it's more to do with Bentalebs attitude than talent. "Perspiration not inspiration"

See similarities with Fergie from Poch. Gets rid of those who don't apply themselves adequately. Fergie for instance got rid of some technically brilliant players at Utd.

CockOnBall · May 20, 2016

Bus-Conductor said:
Dembele is 28, and has just had his first decent consistent EPL season as a cm, Bentaleb is 20 and has already had one of those. I think it's a bit premature to be saying Bentaleb can't get near Dembele's benchmark isn't it?

To say Dembele's season was 'decent' is understatement. Don't think Bentaleb's performances last year came near that of Dembele's this year. I take your point about age. I am just not convinced Bentaleb possesses the talent Dembele does.

CoopsieDeadpool · May 20, 2016

CockOnBall said:
To say Dembele's season was 'decent' is understatement. Don't think Bentaleb's performances last year came near that of Dembele's this year. I take your point about age. I am just not convinced Bentaleb possesses the talent Dembele does.

Indeed, the guy was apparently the best box to box midfielder in Europe. I think it's perfectly reasonable of you to point out he had a better than "decent" season. I agree about Bentaleb, too (y)

talkshowhost86 · May 20, 2016

Bus-Conductor said:
Dembele is 28, and has just had his first decent consistent EPL season as a cm, Bentaleb is 20 and has already had one of those. I think it's a bit premature to be saying Bentaleb can't get near Dembele's benchmark isn't it?

Completely depends on the reasons why he hasn't played this season, or performed when he has played.

If it's because of injury then hopefully he can recover and pick up where he left off.

If it's because he was playing the billy-big-bollocks after one good season then we may be better off without him.

He's got the most potential of the 3 Dembele 'backups'....time will tell whether we're prepared to let himself show that potential.

Speedy · May 20, 2016

talkshowhost86 said:
Completely depends on the reasons why he hasn't played this season, or performed when he has played.

If it's because of injury then hopefully he can recover and pick up where he left off.

If it's because he was playing the billy-big-bollocks after one good season then we may be better off without him.

He's got the most potential of the 3 Dembele 'backups'....time will tell whether we're prepared to let himself show that potential.

Was there a rumour about bentalebs entourage making it difficult for Poch to speak to him? Various advisors and agents getting in the way

danielneeds · May 20, 2016

Speedy said:
Was there a rumour about bentalebs entourage making it difficult for Poch to speak to him? Various advisors and agents getting in the way

That's just modern football though. How many do you reckon are in Neymar or CR7's entourage? Probably hundreds.

Mikegold · May 20, 2016

talkshowhost86 said:
A lot of it is about mentality certainly, although I think with the Champions League, and the likely crazy spending of our rivals, we'll be stepping up in quality next season and that is the area of the pitch where I think we are least well equipped to make that step up.

None of Carroll, Mason or Bentaleb are bad players by any means. Bentaleb clearly has bundles of potential and would be a good Dembele competitor if he gets his injuries/attitude sorted.

As for Mason and Carroll I like them both but am not sure either is going to improve vastly beyond where they are now, so if there are better options available then I'd like to improve in that position.

I think someone like Mason would be useful in the same way Fergie always had players who weren't good enough in treble winning squads. I think there's more to a player like Mason than just a footballer.

Wes Brown, John O'Shea, Fletcher, Park, Evans, etc - those kinda average players but have a part to play.

LexingtonSpurs · May 20, 2016

danielneeds said:
That's just modern football though. How many do you reckon are in Neymar or CR7's entourage? Probably hundreds.

Fair bit of difference between Neymar/Cristiano and Bentaleb...

How many do you reckon are in Kane's entourage, or Lamela's or Eriksen's, or Alli's, or, etc....and do you think they get in the way?

Spinders · May 20, 2016

If Palace are keen, I reckon we should push for a loan. There's definitely a player in there with Bentaleb. Maybe worth seeing how he fares in a midfield that will get overrun much more than ours. If his attitude is right, he would be up for a loan to see game time.

SpursTillIDie1882 · May 20, 2016

If they would pay 10M for bentaleb and we get a sell on fee also afterwards id be very happy with that. right now i cant see how he can get in the team in fromt of Dier Moussa and Alli

Gb160 · May 20, 2016

danielneeds said:
That's just modern football though. How many do you reckon are in Neymar or CR7's entourage? Probably hundreds.

I frickin hate it when people call him that...and I'm fully aware of the irony considering my username.

THFCSPURS19 · May 20, 2016

SpursTillIDie1882 said:
If they would pay 10M for bentaleb and we get a sell on fee also afterwards id be very happy with that. right now i cant see how he can get in the team in fromt of Dier Moussa and Alli

£10m? That's the same amount we sold Soldado and Paulinho for and Townsend went for more. Bentaleb's had much better performances than all of them. Seriously, in today's market, the purchase of Bentaleb this summer for £10m would basically be theft.

LexingtonSpurs · May 20, 2016

CockOnBall said:
If we sell Mason, Carroll and Bentaleb*, how much are we at risk of meeting the homegrown quota?

*not sure he counts as one.

I am guessing this might have been answered, but the answer is "There is no HG quota"

Side answer - Bentaleb is a club-trained HG player, as are Kane, Rose, Mason, Carroll and Pritchard. Walker, Trippier, Davies and Alli are nation-trained HG players.

But, back to the main question - there is a quote on non-HG players - maximum of 17 allowed. Lloris, Vorm, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Wimmer, Dier, Dembele, Eriksen, Son, Lamela, Chadli, Clinton, Yedlin, and Fazio = 14 players.

We can add up to 3 non-HG players, and then 1 for each that we sell or loan out.

Everlasting Seconds · May 20, 2016

Bus-Conductor said:
Dembele is 28, and has just had his first decent consistent EPL season as a cm, Bentaleb is 20 and has already had one of those. I think it's a bit premature to be saying Bentaleb can't get near Dembele's benchmark isn't it?

There are plateaus, and then there are peaks. I learned this very important life wisdom during my time in Colorado. It's not a given that one player will move on from the plateau just because another player reached a peak.

Hoopspur · May 20, 2016

My penny's worth - not sure Tommy was at all suggesting the quality of the ITK info as a parallel to the quality of airline. Slightly ill conceived but I'm as guilty as anyone of jotting something down without much actual thought as to the different ways it can be taken. Until it was mentioned I hadn't even thought of it that way...

Over and out for now.

Forza Huddlestone · May 20, 2016

Breezer said:
I wouldn't worry about that. Especially when we have Winks, Onomah, Pritchard etc

I'll bite. Which if those 3 is a sure thing?

Hugues De Pauens · May 20, 2016

nicdic said:
Shameful if Spurs fans are booing Mason.

Shameful thing is that he keeps on being selected.

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