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Tottenham Vs Gent: Match Thread

Krafty

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2004
4,768
2,099
I was with you all the way until you suggested dropping Wanyama for Dier. Personally, I'd be looking to upgrade on Dembele with someone who will move the ball more quickly and with more purpose.

I feel Dier of last season, while arguably still not individually as good as Wanyama, helps solve the team's needs more.

In my mind, if we put a Pirlo or Xavi in their prime with Wanyama, Vincent's passing would still cause issues. To go all Football Manager on it, Wanyama has more 18-20s, but Dier has less 1-10s
 

Hoddle_Ledge

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2005
9,999
5,493
Gutted looking at the draw, most of those teams are absolute tosh. Although if we couldn't beat Gent we probably couldn't beat Genk...
 

jonathanhotspur

Loose Cannon
Jun 28, 2009
10,292
8,250
I feel Dier of last season, while arguably still not individually as good as Wanyama, helps solve the team's needs more.

In my mind, if we put a Pirlo or Xavi in their prime with Wanyama, Vincent's passing would still cause issues. To go all Football Manager on it, Wanyama has more 18-20s, but Dier has less 1-10s
I am afraid I need you to explain the FM reference to me.
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
25,351
38,294
All I keep reading/hearing is 'we must learn from this', 'ref had a shovcker', 'all Alli's fault', 'must take our chances', etc , from our excuse merchants whist we have thrown away our true genuine chance of a trophy this season. Utd/Roma aside we had NOTHING to fear in that last 16 yet once again this team/squad of players have let us down when it matters. This team has a inability to see anything out and the truth is in the pudding the last 1 year. Every game that has really mattered they have failed miserably.

Do any of you really see us beating 2 of AFC/MCFC/CFC/MUFC, which we will have to do in FA cup semi and Final, to win it at Wembley? If the answer is no, deep down you know the truth, why make excuses for yet another pathetic exit from Europe? Nobody does failure and excuses like THFC. If trophies were handed out for excuses our fan base would be record holders of it.....!
I think that fans genuinely want to think that we can learn and improve. If we aren't willing to be optimistic then I can't see what else we can do. What would you do? Genuine question, not looking for an argument. We all want the same for the club we love.
 

Krafty

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2004
4,768
2,099
I am afraid I need you to explain the FM reference to me.

Ha, football manager/championship manager, a way to waste literally hours of the day playing a computer game. They rate mental, technical and physical abilities (like strength, vision, concentration, marking, pace) out of 20
 

sunnydelight786

Chief Rocka
Jan 7, 2007
6,075
4,241
I think that fans genuinely want to think that we can learn and improve. If we aren't willing to be optimistic then I can't see what else we can do. What would you do? Genuine question, not looking for an argument. We all want the same for the club we love.
Stop buying average dross like Sissoko, Njie, Nkoudou, Janssen, etc and instead buy 1 or 2 top quality players every summer. The amount of people on here, and other spurs boards, who said we can't really improve our first 11 last summer was a joke. FFS we finished 3rd last season not won the damn thing.

We need to be more ruthless with first teamers, if they are not playing well then drop them instead of allowing them 10 odd games to recover their form. Dier has been poor pretty much all season, Eriksen was woeful prior to the CFC away game, Dembele has not scored all season (VW has scored more than him ffs), etc. To be a top club you have to be ruthless and not scared to make big decisions, that is why SAF stayed at the top so long as he was not afraid to drop/sell big players who he thought were dropping their standards.

We as a club have got this mentality that European football is a burden, domestic cups are not worth winning (we were bloody lucky against Wycombe) and the only thing that matters is qualifying for the CL even though we stand no chance of winning it or have any intention of even trying to win it......

If we fail to win the FA Cup this season it will be our longest trophy drought since 1951-61, keep in mind during that time we had less trophies to play for (European cup started in 56, League cup &Cup winners cup in 60, Uefa cup in 71). Let that sink in for a minute.....

'The Game Is About Glory', my arse it is with us these days.....
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
25,351
38,294
Stop buying average dross like Sissoko, Njie, Nkoudou, Janssen, etc and instead buy 1 or 2 top quality players every summer. The amount of people on here, and other spurs boards, who said we can't really improve our first 11 last summer was a joke. FFS we finished 3rd last season not won the damn thing.

We need to be more ruthless with first teamers, if they are not playing well then drop them instead of allowing them 10 odd games to recover their form. Dier has been poor pretty much all season, Eriksen was woeful prior to the CFC away game, Dembele has not scored all season (VW has scored more than him ffs), etc. To be a top club you have to be ruthless and not scared to make big decisions, that is why SAF stayed at the top so long as he was not afraid to drop/sell big players who he thought were dropping their standards.

We as a club have got this mentality that European football is a burden, domestic cups are not worth winning (we were bloody lucky against Wycombe) and the only thing that matters is qualifying for the CL even though we stand no chance of winning it or have any intention of even trying to win it......

If we fail to win the FA Cup this season it will be our longest trophy drought since 1951-61, keep in mind during that time we had less trophies to play for (European cup started in 56, League cup &Cup winners cup in 60, Uefa cup in 71). Let that sink in for a minute.....

'The Game Is About Glory', my arse it is with us these days.....
Of course, no I meant what can we as fans physically do to change the mentality? I think that when fans talk about the team learning and improving, in some ways it's just about trying to stay positive because there is little that we can do as fans to change anything so we just continue to hope.
 

Gb160

Well done boys. Good process
Jun 20, 2012
23,646
93,314
If we fail to win the FA Cup this season it will be our longest trophy drought since 1951-61, keep in mind during that time we had less trophies to play for (European cup started in 56, League cup &Cup winners cup in 60, Uefa cup in 71). Let that sink in for a minute.....

'The Game Is About Glory', my arse it is with us these days.....
I suppose so, if u completely ignore that during that time trophies weren't being hoovered up by clubs who have had massive injections of money to make them competitive....let that sink in for a minute.
 

nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
30,536
46,628
25 shots at goal

3 on target.

stop blaming the ref, this is why we lost the tie

Our shooting was horrific last night. I'm not sure if was part of the Wembley effect, or if it was just a bad night, but lets hope we find our shooting boots this weekend.
 

slartibartfast

Grunge baby forever
Oct 21, 2012
18,320
33,955
Honestly? I think that was pathetic. Abject.

It's not about the performance, it's about the result, and the result is that we've just gone out of yet another cup to a team we should've beaten, in this case to a mid-table Belgian team who saw us as their biggest ever game, and who struggled their way to a 1-1 draw with Standard Liege on the weekend. We couldn't even win one match over two legs.

Our cup performances and results are utterly embarrassing and pathetic, and I pretty much hate watching us in them now.
I may be completely wrong and this is just my mad ramblings but I think its down to the club and Pochs attitude towards cups. It seems like TOP FOUR is the promised land and reeaallllyyyy , when it comes down to it, nothing else reeaalllyyyy matters. Even what you actually do once you're in the fkin thing doesn't matter.
It's just, get top 4 and money above all else and I think, maybe, that attitude works its way onto the pitch.
I mean lets be honest we've seen a lot of cup performances this season where they've strolled about like they couldn't give a shit, not that thats what happened last night mind.
Something definitely up with how we go at teams. Mind you in PL Liverpool had fkin Lucas at cb and we didn't even try and preßure him so maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree and its just our attitude full stop.
 

bozzaSPUR

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
475
541
I am afraid I need you to explain the FM reference to me.
I feel Dier of last season, while arguably still not individually as good as Wanyama, helps solve the team's needs more.

In my mind, if we put a Pirlo or Xavi in their prime with Wanyama, Vincent's passing would still cause issues. To go all Football Manager on it, Wanyama has more 18-20s, but Dier has less 1-10s
What the f**k are you talking about. Admittedly last season Dier looked good sat in front of the back four; this season as part of the back four/three he looks increasingly vulnerable. Whilst others put their bodies on the line Dier will waft a foot at it, as happened last night when he chested it down for the substitute to score. Also whilst Walker was frequently referred to as having a great game, in acres of space how many times did his attempted cross fail to to evade the first defender? Answer not enough given the time and space he had to, deliver telling crosses. Trippier's final ball would have been so much better; it is about time that he was given the nod in a 3-4-2-1 formation.
 

spursbhoy67

Well-Known Member
Dec 20, 2006
1,316
1,475
I may be completely wrong and this is just my mad ramblings but I think its down to the club and Pochs attitude towards cups. It seems like TOP FOUR is the promised land and reeaallllyyyy , when it comes down to it, nothing else reeaalllyyyy matters. Even what you actually do once you're in the fkin thing doesn't matter.
It's just, get top 4 and money above all else and I think, maybe, that attitude works its way onto the pitch.
I mean lets be honest we've seen a lot of cup performances this season where they've strolled about like they couldn't give a shit, not that thats what happened last night mind.
Something definitely up with how we go at teams. Mind you in PL Liverpool had fkin Lucas at cb and we didn't even try and preßure him so maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree and its just our attitude full stop.

The issue for me is that a club, its team, its players and its manager cannot pick and choose when they want to play, when they want to win, when they want to take a competition seriously. The attitude is either ingrained in the club or it is not.

Even allowing for the money invested in some of our rivals we have still seen the likes of Wigan and Portsmouth win the FA Cup, Swansea and Birmingham win the League Cup and Seville and Zenith win the Europa Cup. We as a club should be winning more than we have done in the last 10 years.

The attitude to be a top four club is okay, but if finishing in the top four is the only thing then it becomes about money and business and not football. Why can't we finish top four and win a trophy? Why can't the expectation be set to be a top four team every year and win a trophy or make a final every year?

I have been at clubs where the culture is about survival and that pervades the place. I have been around clubs where anything but success was not good enough. I was recently working at a club with a stated goal of CL football, then winning the title, then winning the CL and that attitude is top to bottom in the club. The youth players know the goals, the staff know the goals, the fans know the goals and the first team know the goals. Players know they will be moved on if targets are not achieved and could be moved on even if they are because better players will be signed. It is a culture. It is an attitude. The standard is set from top to bottom. We need that at White Hart Lane.

I do think we as a club have improved. It is certainly better than the times I have been behind the scenes when the attitude of players wasn't good enough for a club of our stature. It was annoying to be a fan and experience it. We have moved on for sure, but we also need to take that final step. We could become Newcastle as a few on here have mentioned or we could become a trophy and title winning team.
 

Bulletspur

The Reasonable Advocate
Match Thread Admin
Oct 17, 2006
10,690
25,246
Dier hasn't played central midfield this season, except for maybe two or three games at the very start of the season. Last season when he regularly started there he was one of our best players and a complete revelation in that position. It wasn't broken and it didn't need fixing. Pochettino, however, thinks Wanyama is undroppable and there are plenty of posters on here who also seem to think he can do no wrong. He's been rubbish for over a month now and it was his failure to control a simple ball in midfield which lead to the counter that resulted in the erroneous corner Gent equalised from. That was the moment that knocked the momentum out of our good start which was then compounded by Alli's red card.
Crap
 

Sweetsman

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2011
6,673
6,588
Alli's getting a lot of the blame, and rightly so, but I wish we didn't play Dier as a CB.
However good he was in that position in his first season, although playing RB as well, he was much better as a DM last season and should be played there. 2 mistakes from him last night resulted in 2 goals for Genk.
First one from the corner he lost his man and couldn't jump with him when the ball came in.
Second one he played the striker on side originally by being too deep. He was unfortunate with his chest down that the goal came from as he'd made a big effort to get back to cover.
Seems Wanyama is undroppable and Wimmer is out of the picture as well.
It's not a case of Wanyama seemingly being undroppable, it's just the case that he is undroppable. Watching him live was an eye opener. He makes a lot of stuff happen. Dier's touch was poor and his ingame thinking was not good.
 

Sweetsman

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2011
6,673
6,588
Dier hasn't played central midfield this season, except for maybe two or three games at the very start of the season. Last season when he regularly started there he was one of our best players and a complete revelation in that position. It wasn't broken and it didn't need fixing. Pochettino, however, thinks Wanyama is undroppable and there are plenty of posters on here who also seem to think he can do no wrong. He's been rubbish for over a month now and it was his failure to control a simple ball in midfield which lead to the counter that resulted in the erroneous corner Gent equalised from. That was the moment that knocked the momentum out of our good start which was then compounded by Alli's red card.
Wanyama was way ahead of Dier last night; Dier didn't inspire confidence in me. He is having a poor season.
 

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