Let's talk about pace

nicdic · Aug 29, 2017

Pace is a bit of a buzz word for Spurs fans. Every summer, we have the same clamour for players with pace. Pace is the key to unlock the defences that so stubbornly sit before us. Pace was the answer to a small pitch at White Hart Lane, and pace is the answer to make the most of the space at Wembley. We're obsessed with pace.

Since the season started the discussion has taken further focus, we need pace like Liverpool. Mane and Salah are the kind of players we need, and the goals they scored against Arsenal are the kind of things we should be doing.

But is all of this actually true? Two repeating thoughts keep coming to me as I read these desperate cries for pace.

First, acknowledging I'll sound like BC, pace in the head is more useful than pace in the legs. We had Lennon and Walker for years who had pace to burn, but lacked the in-game intelligence to really make the most of their physical advantage.

Second, would it even work in our team? We have a very clear and relatively set game plan. We look to dominate possession and grind our opponents down. We constantly build from the back, and are willing to go backward to maintain possession and rebuild attacks. We're not a team that looks to constantly play on the counter or in behind. The goals Liverpool scored on Sunday, are not the type of goals we're likely to score with any kind of regularity. Is a Mane or Salah really as effective in a set up like ours?

Don't mis-hear me, I'm not saying pace is pointless, but I think there's a nuance to the argument that is sorely missed. Pace for pace sake isn't really going to help us. We maybe need more choice of spark in the final third, and of course we need athleticism in our full backs/wing backs, but I'm not sure the key feature we need in this team is pace.

Is the frustration more with the system, rather than the players?

Lilbaz · Aug 29, 2017

nicdic said:
Pace is a bit of a buzz word for Spurs fans. Every summer, we have the same clamour for players with pace. Pace is the key to unlock the defences that so stubbornly sit before us. Pace was the answer to a small pitch at White Hart Lane, and pace is the answer to make the most of the space at Wembley. We're obsessed with pace.

Since the season started the discussion has taken further focus, we need pace like Liverpool. Mane and Salah are the kind of players we need, and the goals they scored against Arsenal are the kind of things we should be doing.

But is all of this actually true? Two repeating thoughts keep coming to me as I read these desperate cries for pace.

First, acknowledging I'll sound like BC, pace in the head is more useful than pace in the legs. We had Lennon and Walker for years who had pace to burn, but lacked the in-game intelligence to really make the most of their physical advantage.

Second, would it even work in our team? We have a very clear and relatively set game plan. We look to dominate possession and grind our opponents down. We constantly build from the back, and are willing to go backward to maintain possession and rebuild attacks. We're not a team that looks to constantly play on the counter or in behind. The goals Liverpool scored on Sunday, are not the type of goals we're likely to score with any kind of regularity. Is a Mane or Salah really as effective in a set up like ours?

Don't mis-hear me, I'm not saying pace is pointless, but I think there's a nuance to the argument that is sorely missed. Pace for pace sake isn't really going to help us. We maybe need more choice of spark in the final third, and of course we need athleticism in our full backs/wing backs, but I'm not sure the key feature we need in this team is pace.

Is the frustration more with the system, rather than the players?

But pace is exciting.

nicdic · Aug 29, 2017

Lilbaz said:
But pace is exciting.

And counter attacking is fun, I know.

Everlasting Seconds · Aug 29, 2017

We don't need a player who can run 100m at record pace. We compete within a possession based paradigm, not a sprint paradigm. What we do need though, are players who can run quickly with the ball in their feet, and in other ways move the ball super quickly, which is a whole different sort of pace.

nicdic · Aug 29, 2017

Everlasting Seconds said:
We don't need a player who can run 100m at record pace. We compete within a possession based paradigm, not a sprint paradigm. What we do need though, are players who can run quickly with the ball in their feet, and in other ways move the ball super quickly, which is a whole different sort of pace.

This a million times. We can be ponderous on the ball which needs addressing, for sure.

robin09 · Aug 29, 2017

We struggle against Liverpool and City, they both have so much pace. It's understandable we yearn for that as an extra weapon.

nicdic · Aug 29, 2017

robin09 said:
We struggle against Liverpool and City, they both have so much pace. It's understandable we yearn for that as an extra weapon.

But how do we utilise it in our team? Does Salah have that kind of impact in our team?

Krafty · Aug 29, 2017

We need attacking players (whose standard position is high up the pitch, so not wing backs or attacking full backs) who are happy to start or run wide, and take the ball down the wing. Everything is too narrow high up the pitch, we don't make the opposition think about their flanks, and it allows them to crowd the central spaces where we are trying to pass the ball through.

Kane is the central striker, so understandable he wants to stay central. Alli, even when on the left of the three behind, doesn't want to attack the byline, he wants to work himself central. Eriksen will cross from wide positions but he wont be hitting the byline, and will tend to move infield, Son wants to play on the left and cut inside but at least is happy to take a starting position that is wide.

It just makes us a bit too predictable, and if teams are of sufficient quality (Chelsea) or just well drilled/organised and play well (Burnley) we struggle to make our dominant possession count. Have that other option and suddenly the opposition have decisions to make.

al_pacino · Aug 29, 2017

nicdic said:
But how do we utilise it in our team? Does Salah have that kind of impact in our team?

Maybe. We have good footballers but good footballers that can run gives an extra option.

It's been covered on this thread but when we talk about pace we're no saying sign Linford Christie and Usain Bolt and have them running about doing nothing but rather being able to beat a man and them stay beaten instead of having to turn straight back again, or being able to make a run behind a defence(even a packed one like the aforementioned Lennon did often without always producing) and put a good ball across the 6 yard box.

This pace also needs to come from higher up the pitch whether it is as wing backs with a 3 or otherwise you're asking too much for the fullbacks in the 4 to do all the running and produce consistent quality both ends of the pitch.

SamR · Aug 29, 2017

nicdic said:
And counter attacking is fun, I know.

I certainly feel pace up top would help us. I personally feel we look vulnerable when opposition teams knock one over the top. Whilst we rarely concede, its an easy way to continue play at our end of the pitch and pressure the CBs and GK to make a mistake (Like Chelsea).
We haven't got this type of option available when chasing a game or wanting to relieve pressure. Many a time i've seen Hugo collect the ball with opportunity to counter attack, yet there isn't really an explosive player who can collect and run 40/50 yards to stretch the game and open up. We like to play it from the back, but that really has limitation when we need to score.

So in summary, I think Pace would provide us new opportunities to create chances and relief pressure in certain phases of the game. Particularly as we move the ball so well and have the talent to create transitions very quickly!

tobi · Aug 29, 2017

nicdic said:
But how do we utilise it in our team? Does Salah have that kind of impact in our team?

Yes because he attacks space (more consistently than Son) and this opens things up for others.

Having a passer in centre midfield would also help tremendously.

VertongHen · Aug 29, 2017

I think it's being overrated how much of a difference having pace in our team would make.

Most teams tend to park the bus (at least to an extent) against us. Having pace will not help us out against teams parking the bus like Burnley or Chelsea. You need football ability and quick passing to break down this sort of team.

People are just getting frustrated with our recent results and are looking for what they think would be a quick fix. I honestly don't think having a pacy player would greatly effect how we play.

nicdic · Aug 29, 2017

VertongHen said:
I think it's being overrated how much of a difference having pace in our team would make.

Most teams tend to park the bus (at least to an extent) against us. Having pace will not help us out against teams parking the bus like Burnley or Chelsea. You need football ability and quick passing to break down this sort of team.

People are just getting frustrated with our recent results and are looking for what they think would be a quick fix. I honestly don't think having a pacy player would greatly effect how we play.

I think this is where I am.

Mate · Aug 29, 2017

For me, pace is only essential in certain areas of the pitch (depending on how you set the team up). In order of priority (if any) I would generally go with the below:

1) Full Backs/Wing Backs
2) Wingers
3) Centre Backs (allows for quicker interceptions and recovery tackles)
4) Strikers, although as mentioned previously, having a quick brain would be more beneficial in my opinion (i.e Teddy, Berba)
5) Centre Mids
6) Goalie... Unless it's the old days and we're playing Rush Goalie then move this to number 1

VertongHen · Aug 29, 2017

alexn_spurs said:
For me, pace is only essential in certain areas of the pitch (depending on how you set the team up). In order of priority I would generally go with the below:

1) Full Backs/Wing Backs
2) Wingers
3) Centre Backs (allows for quicker interceptions and recovery tackles)
4) Strikers, although as mentioned previously, having a quick brain would be more beneficial in my opinion (i.e Teddy, Berba)

So... Everywhere except center midfield?

Mate · Aug 29, 2017

VertongHen said:
So... Everywhere except center midfield?

I was going to add it in as point 5 to avoid this type of response... I may as well finish the job

robin09 · Aug 29, 2017

nicdic said:
But how do we utilise it in our team? Does Salah have that kind of impact in our team?

I don't know how much of an impact any individual player might have. That's the chemistry lottery you rely on the coach to determine.

However, I'd liked to have seen Sane in our team. Like someone else mentioned, pace probably doesn't do you much good against the Burnley's, but I think against our league rivals, being able to punish a high defensive line is very useful, and gives you an added threat.

If you're looking at players to sign, no matter how good they may be in other areas, 'pace' is only going to improve them. For example, an Eriksen with pace, or Kane with pace, isn't going to be detrimental. You would never choose to delete it, all other attributes being equal.

bubble07 · Aug 29, 2017

pace in the head doesn't catch quick players when you are being counter attacked

Shadydan · Aug 29, 2017

bubble07 said:
pace in the head doesn't catch quick players when you are being counter attacked

You could argue that quick thinking stops counter attacks which is something we do very well under Poch anyway.

shelfmonkey · Aug 29, 2017

nicdic said:
But how do we utilise it in our team? Does Salah have that kind of impact in our team?

We could utilise it by changing our high line and dropping deeper for periods of the game allowing our players a breather from the hard pressing Poch likes and allowing teams, like Liverpool, that don't like playing against a defensive wall to come on to us giving us the opportunity to hit them on the break. When we broke away against burnley we weren't quick or direct enough and each attack fizzled out. So, pace up top is important for me.

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