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Demarai Gray

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
48,105
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It is not flawed to say that Albrighton keeps Gray out of the Leicester team. It's a fact.

The signing of Toby wasn't a pure scouting decision. I have no doubt that Verts would have been in Poch's ear constantly about how good his former Ajax CB partner was, and how well their games complemented each other. Southampton thought they could buy Toby after the season loan to the PL, and we hijacked the deal because we had the inside track.

Toby has made Verts a more effective player and vice versa. Their understanding on the pitch, crucial for a CB partnership, is exceptional.

There is no analogy to be drawn between the signing of Toby for around £11 million to play alongside his Ajax and Belgium colleage Verts, and the prospective signing of Gray for a ridiculous £30 million plus.

Not sure that's strictly true.

To start with, 30m is roughly the equivalent of 11m back then anyway.

And who's to say that Poch hasn't seen something similarly hidden in Gray's play? I think we'd all hope that Poch is a better manager than Shakespeare so it wouldn't be outlandish for him to see something that Shakey hasn't.

Personally I don't see it in terms of us trying to get a player ready to start and make an impact straight away, but I don't think the analogy with the Toby transfer is as far off as you suggest.
 

Larryjanta

Well-Known Member
Apr 22, 2014
1,953
5,040
Still maintain what I originally posted. Kid has all the ingredients and will end up a striker IMO. Would be a good signings (not my first choice but ticks all the boxes)
 

KenTHFC

Professional Lurker
Jan 8, 2015
583
1,582
Gray is a talented prospect. Don't know about the fees but I'd be happy if we came, as long as someone else better came with him. It's only disappointing if he's the 'gamechanger'
 

yanno

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2003
5,857
2,877
Not sure that's strictly true.

To start with, 30m is roughly the equivalent of 11m back then anyway.

And who's to say that Poch hasn't seen something similarly hidden in Gray's play? I think we'd all hope that Poch is a better manager than Shakespeare so it wouldn't be outlandish for him to see something that Shakey hasn't.

Personally I don't see it in terms of us trying to get a player ready to start and make an impact straight away, but I don't think the analogy with the Toby transfer is as far off as you suggest.

We bought Toby for around £11 million, the CB steal of the decade.

The goons paid the same for Gabriel and then £35 million for Mustafi, both terrible CBs.

But you're missing the point. We had an inside track with Toby. Jan had played alongside him for Ajax and their games complement each other. In this sense, we were buying a known quantity who had already established an understanding with one of our key players in Verts.

With Gray, the club is trying to judge from the outside, from what he's flashed in substitute appearances and his time in the Championship.
 

DannyNZ

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2017
1,740
4,726
Not sure that's strictly true.

To start with, 30m is roughly the equivalent of 11m back then anyway.

And who's to say that Poch hasn't seen something similarly hidden in Gray's play? I think we'd all hope that Poch is a better manager than Shakespeare so it wouldn't be outlandish for him to see something that Shakey hasn't.

Personally I don't see it in terms of us trying to get a player ready to start and make an impact straight away, but I don't think the analogy with the Toby transfer is as far off as you suggest.
Toby had a full season at Southampton and looked top drawer, I'm struggling to get the comparison to Gray at all.
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
48,105
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We bought Toby for around £11 million, the CB steal of the decade.

The goons paid the same for Gabriel and then £35 million for Mustafi, both terrible CBs.


But you're missing the point. We had an inside track with Toby. Jan had played alongside him for Ajax and their games complement each other. In this sense, we were buying a known quantity who had already established an understanding with one of our key players in Verts.

With Gray, the club is trying to judge from the outside, from what he's flashed in substitute appearances and his time in the Championship.

My point was that £30m in this window is about the same as £11m from a couple of windows ago. Yes it's ridiculous money, but it's just the way prices have been inflated. Newcastle are asking for £20m for Dwight Gale which gives you a fair idea of where £30m actually sits in terms of value.

But yes you're right about Toby fitting us due to Verts and that making it a good deal despite his problems at Atletico.

But do you honestly think that Poch won't have spoken to as many people as possible about all his transfer targets? How many of our boys has he played with at England youth level for instance?
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
48,105
47,061
Toby had a full season at Southampton and looked top drawer, I'm struggling to get the comparison to Gray at all.

FFS it's not as simple as saying they're the same deal!

The overall point is that it's far too simplistic to say that because a player doesn't work at one club, he won't work at a different club.

Clearly there's no point trying to put any further nuance on it :rolleyes:
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
No idea if this has legs, has any itk commented on it? Would love it if we got him, he's got all the technical and physical elements, is young enough to develop a brain and is different to what we have. Leicester are mugs if they let him go.
 

TH1239

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
3,691
8,964
He would be 6th choice attacking midfielder if we sign him, Sissoko stays and Lamela gets fit. He doesn't have the workrate off the ball, the physical strength to shrug off tackles or the end product to make it in a side looking to win titles and compete at the top of the table. To wait all summer and spend 30 million pounds on him would be a travesty with more capable players on the continent going for less and in 12 months time we'd be looking to sell him on to the West Brom or Watfords of the world. There are selling clubs out there like Lyon with better players we can poach if we have 35 million Euros available. Hopefully we go that route rather than signing Gray.
 

THFCSPURS19

The Speaker of the Transfer Rumours Forum
Jan 6, 2013
37,886
130,485
Sky Sports saying we are 'very very interested' in signing Demarai Gray.

Sigh.
 

Spurs Lodge Kittens

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
1,307
3,083
A month or so ago I put a little money on Gray to us - as it just seemed like a deal we'd end up 'settling' for. One month on I can't help feel a little underwhelmed if he's the pacey wide option we're going for, even if it wins me a bit of cash
 

GeneralBurk

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2005
919
888
It is not flawed to say that Albrighton keeps Gray out of the Leicester team. It's a fact.

The signing of Toby wasn't a pure scouting decision. I have no doubt that Verts would have been in Poch's ear constantly about how good his former Ajax CB partner was, and how well their games complemented each other. Southampton thought they could buy Toby after the season loan to the PL, and we hijacked the deal because we had the inside track.

Toby has made Verts a more effective player and vice versa. Their understanding on the pitch, crucial for a CB partnership, is exceptional.

There is no analogy to be drawn between the signing of Toby for around £11 million to play alongside his Ajax and Belgium colleage Verts, and the prospective signing of Gray for a ridiculous £30 million plus.
That my friend is the strawman fallacy. You have refuted an argument that was not presented.

You need to be able follow your own argument. Your argument is for not signing a player is based on player x keeping player y out of the team is flawed.

You've changed your argument so that it now reads is player x keeps player y out of the team.

My argument was that our scouting team will assess the player on his own merits not by the fact that Albrighton keeps him out of the team. That is what Southampton scouts did with Toby. Again this was not Tottenham as you are trying to allude I've stated.
 

yanno

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2003
5,857
2,877
That my friend is the strawman fallacy. You have refuted an argument that was not presented.

You need to be able follow your own argument. Your argument is for not signing a player is based on player x keeping player y out of the team is flawed.

You've changed your argument so that it now reads is player x keeps player y out of the team.

My argument was that our scouting team will assess the player on his own merits not by the fact that Albrighton keeps him out of the team. That is what Southampton scouts did with Toby. Again this was not Tottenham as you are trying to allude I've stated.

I know exactly what the strawman fallacy is but I have no idea what you're talking about.
 

GeneralBurk

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2005
919
888
I know exactly what the strawman fallacy is but I have no idea what you're talking about.
Then learn to read your own posts and also people who disagree with what you stated. It's coming across as incoherent ramblings. Countering points I haven't made and confirming points that you didn't make originally either.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,957
Hwercules said yesterday that we were revisiting old targets and when I saw the Palace link earlier he was who I immediately thought of, hence posting the article. Time will tell I guess.
 

fatpiranha

dismember
Jun 9, 2003
8,337
21,678
I'd be shocked if we paid £30M for Gray but the boy definitely has some potential. He was very good for England U21s in the summer (although Sessegnon was the outstanding English player). I don't think he is suited to Leicester's system and think he'd work better in ours. He wouldn't be my first choice at £30M but he wouldn't be a wrist-slitter signing either.
 

degoose

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2004
2,832
3,012
I wanted us to sign Gray before he went to Leicester, he was brilliant at Birmingham and even though that was championship football he showed he had that extra pace and skill that a lot do not. Not sure why he didn't get more of a chance at Leicester but i'd be happy if we picked him up. Saying that i also want GKN to get in the team more as i feel he hasn't had many chances either but it must be tough getting ahead of Eriksen and Alli. The next 2 days are going to be interesting.
 
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