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Match Ratings Ratings vs West Ham

MOTM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Toby

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Sanchez

    Votes: 3 0.9%
  • Verts

    Votes: 74 21.4%
  • Aurier

    Votes: 6 1.7%
  • Dier

    Votes: 3 0.9%
  • Sissoko

    Votes: 10 2.9%
  • Davies

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Eriksen

    Votes: 55 15.9%
  • Dele

    Votes: 6 1.7%
  • Kane

    Votes: 183 52.9%
  • Winks

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Trippier

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Llorente

    Votes: 4 1.2%

  • Total voters
    346

Ionman34

SC Supporter
Jun 1, 2011
7,182
16,793
Who has ever said "he's shit"? Plenty of people won't hear any criticism of him though, or meet it with a plethora of excuses or denials.

I think Alli has a gift, his movement when we have the ball in attacking areas can be fantastic, and his presence on a pitch is way superior to his age. But age doesn't excuse everything. He's now made nearly 200 senior appearances, 100 of them at the very highest level of football. Most weeks nearly all of us would take the rough with the smooth with him, but that doesn't mean you don't call the rough, especially when there's more of it going on than the smooth, and it also isn't heresy to suggest Son, who is even more productive, and brings different qualities, as well as some similar weaknesses, be played sometimes in his stead. His status in the team isn't going to be under any long term threat, and he might just benefit from being shown he isn't untouchable, most players do, and it's what the best coaches do.
Funnily enough BC I agree with your assessment of Alli. The point I'm making isn't directed at you because you qualify your comments, they're well reasoned. I think you should know by now that if I do disagree with you I'll post my reasons why.

Also, I should have made my comments a bit clearer regarding the "he's shit" etc. It was more a generic reference rather than specifically regarding Alli, we've seen those type of comment for many of our players, that was more what I was referring to.

For clarity, I'm not a "fanboy" in the context in which it is used here. More an advocate of patience with players based on the reasons I've already put forward. Alli has had his mentality and application questioned here without the multiple factors that I've mentioned really being taken into account. The same applies to Sissoko, but to a different degree. At one point last season I felt that Eriksen needed to be benched as he was out of form. What actually happened was that he played himself back into form, as did Kane. It's feasible that Alli could do the same, which may be why he isn't being benched.

What you forget, when referencing the meritocracy, is that it is based on what they do in training. Porch himself has said they're paid to train, not to play, so maybe these players are earning the right to play through a slump by their hard work on the training pitches?

I don't know, any more than the rest here, but it is a consideration that needs to be factored in before they can be criticised.

This isn't me saying that because you don't know then you can't say a word, more that a caveat to your thinking (generally speaking) needs to be considered for a genuine critique.

Them's my onions anyway.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Funnily enough BC I agree with your assessment of Alli. The point I'm making isn't directed at you because you qualify your comments, they're well reasoned. I think you should know by now that if I do disagree with you I'll post my reasons why.

Also, I should have made my comments a bit clearer regarding the "he's shit" etc. It was more a generic reference rather than specifically regarding Alli, we've seen those type of comment for many of our players, that was more what I was referring to.


Ah Ok, fair do's. Apologies for misunderstanding.

For clarity, I'm not a "fanboy" in the context in which it is used here. More an advocate of patience with players based on the reasons I've already put forward. Alli has had his mentality and application questioned here without the multiple factors that I've mentioned really being taken into account. The same applies to Sissoko, but to a different degree. At one point last season I felt that Eriksen needed to be benched as he was out of form. What actually happened was that he played himself back into form, as did Kane. It's feasible that Alli could do the same, which may be why he isn't being benched.

What you forget, when referencing the meritocracy, is that it is based on what they do in training. Porch himself has said they're paid to train, not to play, so maybe these players are earning the right to play through a slump by their hard work on the training pitches?

I don't know, any more than the rest here, but it is a consideration that needs to be factored in before they can be criticised.

This isn't me saying that because you don't know then you can't say a word, more that a caveat to your thinking (generally speaking) needs to be considered for a genuine critique.

Them's my onions anyway.

I don't honestly remember Eriksen ever reaching the depths of performance last season that Alli (and others) has plundered at times to be honest. Even when Eriksen isn't scoring or assisting, he's generally seeing as much or ball than our CM's and providing valuable conduit game play. And he will always press pretty well when we press.

Whilst I liked the implication of Poch's comment about being paid to train, I don't believe for a second that how players train really carries anywhere like the weight of their match day performances, general match day presence or collective match day oeuvre does on their selection. Do we really believe for a Nono second that if Janssen had had a great week in training, but Kane had had a bad one, Janssen would be picked for the Saturday league game ? No. Do we think that if KWP played better in training all week than Aurier and Trippier, he'd get picked ? No.

I get what Poch was trying to imply when he said this and it's fundamental truth, but he didn't say "whoever trains best plays".
 

Cravenspurs

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2011
2,864
3,680
That corner goal pissed me off. The corner
Taker signals to fonte that he should run to the near post. If I saw it wouldn't a player on the pitch?
 

Gareth88

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2017
4,592
6,727
Dier, Sissoko, Alli
No way over Ali??. Dier drops to cb when Jan goes forward Winks in that position, I dont think so. Sissoko is the only one there but as I said earlier I would have picked Sissoko over Winks for yeaterdays game mainly as he is taller.
 

whitechina

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2012
4,225
9,094
Poch obviously trusts Sissoko more than Winks at this point, with Dembele and Wanyama out. As disappointing as Sissoko has been I appreciate his willingness to be a squad player and slot in where needed.

We need players to do what is asked, when it is asked and they may not get too many opportunities to really shine.
Sissoko has been following his instructions, trying for MY team and so he may not been a player I'd choose, I'll support him non the less
COYS
 

Ionman34

SC Supporter
Jun 1, 2011
7,182
16,793
Ah Ok, fair do's. Apologies for misunderstanding.



I don't honestly remember Eriksen ever reaching the depths of performance last season that Alli (and others) has plundered at times to be honest. Even when Eriksen isn't scoring or assisting, he's generally seeing as much or ball than our CM's and providing valuable conduit game play. And he will always press pretty well when we press.

Whilst I liked the implication of Poch's comment about being paid to train, I don't believe for a second that how players train really carries anywhere like the weight of their match day performances, general match day presence or collective match day oeuvre does on their selection. Do we really believe for a Nono second that if Janssen had had a great week in training, but Kane had had a bad one, Janssen would be picked for the Saturday league game ? No. Do we think that if KWP played better in training all week than Aurier and Trippier, he'd get picked ? No.

I get what Poch was trying to imply when he said this and it's fundamental truth, but he didn't say "whoever trains best plays".
No worries on the misunderstanding, it wasn't that clear tbh.

With Eriksen, I had a discussion at the time where I stated that if his poor form continued he might well need benching in favour of Lamela. Thankfully CE's form picked up and he tore the place apart. The point is he played his way through the poor form.

I'm postulating on the training performances because we don't really know who's training well or not, but it might be a factor that needs to be taken into account. It may be that Poch actually feels that Alli will play his way into good form. Alli has shown improvement in temperament, it may be that Poch feels the other aspects will improve with continued playing time. For all his "bumbling," let's not forget that the first 2 goals yesterday directly resulted from his movement off the ball to create those opportunities. Poor form or not, he was instrumental in 2 goals, which is invaluable.

This kind of gets away from my point though, that certain fans do not take into account certain variables before launching into an opinion based on nothing more than emotive reaction or, dare I say it, what tabloids or pundits are spouting.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
Aurier was stupid. I don't care whether he played well, he seems to have no brains. Why the fcuk would u risk a red by tackling a player 70meters away from goal. Couldve cost us the match.

Verts, eriksen and Kane played well.

Sissoko didnt do too badly.

Winksy came on and played well.

Crazy decision by Poch to take out Eriksen instead of Alli, who was atrocious and also not necessary when down to 10 men.

not seen this answered yet, but as Alli is suspended for us in CL, taking Eriksen off keeps him a little fresher.
 

cliff jones

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
4,059
6,514
Thinking about the match I'd say some of it wasn't helped by the formation. He was left two vs one at times when the ball got switched out to that flank. But then he has to be culpable for getting himself stranded over and over, he'd go to close Cresswell too late and end up getting taken out of the game by the ball then played in behind him.

I think a lot of it is not being comfortable with the system yet, iirc Poch teaches the players a lot of 'triggers' as to where and when they press, I'd hope its a case of him getting up to speed.

Looks like Poch is happy for Toby to cover a left wing forward, knowing that Sanchez will be behind him. But if the opposition are brave enough to leave three up, there will definitely be some anxious moments. Aurier was caught between two stools more than once but I really like him, a real heart on the sleeve player. Stupid second yellow but hopefully he only misses Hfield and Trips or KWP should be enough to pull us through that challenge.
 

Flashspur

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2012
6,882
9,068
What do you mean by Nancy boy? Are you using it as a homophobic slur? Do you want to provide context? As in, you PMed me crying your eyes out about a rep?

Don't cry my eyes out over anything dude. I said if you disagree with me instead of spamming try to communicate. I was interested why a comment like 'watch the game' resulted in a hysterical response. Personally you neg repping me is about as high on my list of priorities as removing navel fluff.

As for context - you may be a ninja warrior on a keyboard champ but your gutless if you cant debate your point of view without using the neg rep trigger.

And don't tell me what to think or post on this site in future wimp.
 
Last edited:

JonnySpurs

SC Veteran
Jun 4, 2004
5,345
12,398
Wow, this thread is a car crash. Anyone would've thought we'd lost on Saturday.

As far as I could see there are only a handful of posts that don't have some sort of agenda against one player or another, be it Alli, Sissoko, Dier.....take your pick really.

I can't read BC's posts anymore cos I'm so sick of Alli being described as "bumbling". The kid definitely isn't someone that is devoid of criticism and he's having a weird season so far but all we ever get from you BC is "bumbling". Seriously, for someone that considers themselves so tactically astute, it might be time to either leave him out of your critique or start actually thinking of some other words to use for describing his performances.

I came into this thread hoping for some insight as I was stuck at a wedding all day and couldn't watch it. Thanks to a very small miniority I've garnered bits and bobs but most of it just nonsense and arguing.

I imagine this is what LFC's forum is like.
 

Everlasting Seconds

Well-Known Member
Jan 9, 2014
14,914
26,616
Wow, this thread is a car crash. Anyone would've thought we'd lost on Saturday.

As far as I could see there are only a handful of posts that don't have some sort of agenda against one player or another, be it Alli, Sissoko, Dier.....take your pick really.

I can't read BC's posts anymore cos I'm so sick of Alli being described as "bumbling". The kid definitely isn't someone that is devoid of criticism and he's having a weird season so far but all we ever get from you BC is "bumbling". Seriously, for someone that considers themselves so tactically astute, it might be time to either leave him out of your critique or start actually thinking of some other words to use for describing his performances.

I came into this thread hoping for some insight as I was stuck at a wedding all day and couldn't watch it. Thanks to a very small miniority I've garnered bits and bobs but most of it just nonsense and arguing.

I imagine this is what LFC's forum is like.
There really isn't that much to actually discuss from the match aside from the performance of a few individuals. Our team, IMO, was split in two halves. One half of really, really good performances, and one half that was mundane or under-performing.

As for the match as a whole, we played patiently and grabbed our chances. It wasn't an exceedingly good performance, but West Ham really was too weak, albeit not without threat.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Wow, this thread is a car crash. Anyone would've thought we'd lost on Saturday.

As far as I could see there are only a handful of posts that don't have some sort of agenda against one player or another, be it Alli, Sissoko, Dier.....take your pick really.

I can't read BC's posts anymore cos I'm so sick of Alli being described as "bumbling". The kid definitely isn't someone that is devoid of criticism and he's having a weird season so far but all we ever get from you BC is "bumbling". Seriously, for someone that considers themselves so tactically astute, it might be time to either leave him out of your critique or start actually thinking of some other words to use for describing his performances.

I came into this thread hoping for some insight as I was stuck at a wedding all day and couldn't watch it. Thanks to a very small miniority I've garnered bits and bobs but most of it just nonsense and arguing.

I imagine this is what LFC's forum is like.

See, if you had bothered to read my post you'd know I didn't just call Alli bumbling, I called him lazy too.
 

JonnySpurs

SC Veteran
Jun 4, 2004
5,345
12,398
There really isn't that much to actually discuss from the match aside from the performance of a few individuals. Our team, IMO, was split in two halves. One half of really, really good performances, and one half that was mundane or under-performing.

As for the match as a whole, we played patiently and grabbed our chances. It wasn't an exceedingly good performance, but West Ham really was too weak, albeit not without threat.

Thanks, appreciate the feedback
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
That corner goal pissed me off. The corner
Taker signals to fonte that he should run to the near post. If I saw it wouldn't a player on the pitch?
It might have been a pre-arranged bluff or double bluff.
Though that might be a little sophisticated for our opponents.
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
Wow, this thread is a car crash. Anyone would've thought we'd lost on Saturday.

As far as I could see there are only a handful of posts that don't have some sort of agenda against one player or another, be it Alli, Sissoko, Dier.....take your pick really.

I can't read BC's posts anymore cos I'm so sick of Alli being described as "bumbling". The kid definitely isn't someone that is devoid of criticism and he's having a weird season so far but all we ever get from you BC is "bumbling". Seriously, for someone that considers themselves so tactically astute, it might be time to either leave him out of your critique or start actually thinking of some other words to use for describing his performances.

I came into this thread hoping for some insight as I was stuck at a wedding all day and couldn't watch it. Thanks to a very small miniority I've garnered bits and bobs but most of it just nonsense and arguing.

I imagine this is what LFC's forum is like.

Have to agree with you mate...... Coining a phrase and then using on repeat is very self indulgent indeed. The descriptions of Dele are more bumbling that the player himself.
 
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