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Match Ratings Ratings vs APOEL

MOTM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Trippier

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Toby

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Sanchez

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Davies

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Aurier

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dier

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Winks

    Votes: 22 6.5%
  • Sissoko

    Votes: 12 3.6%
  • Son

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Kane

    Votes: 296 87.8%
  • Llorente

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Nkoudou

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Georgiou

    Votes: 4 1.2%

  • Total voters
    337

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
this game highlights the need for another CM - like in January. Without Eriksen we are bereft of creativity in the middle. Dier and Wanyama are good defensive mids and Dembele just isnt reliable anymore. Winks is a project.

Having said that, I was really only disappointed with defense tonight. Far to easily opened up by what was quite honestly a poorer side then most we will face in a season. we were lucky they didnt score.

MOTM - Kane
good - Sissoko, Winks

everyone else ok

Aurier - pretty poor, and like I said after Dortmund - reminds me of disco Benny. Overconfident and a little reckless.

Lamela will be back by then.
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
  1. Sanchez price is irrelevant, especially when the figures we have are press produced. More likely is that it will rise to that amount if he's a success. If that's the case we won't complain.
  2. Formation would look tonnes better if Dier was replaced with Wanyama, who doesn't get sucked deep; Sissoko was replaced with Dembele, who loves receiving the ball and can use it in tight situations and; Winks was replaced by Eriksen, who is more adventurous with the ball. The realty would be more cohesion and playing on the front foot more. Sadly they were all injured.
  3. Pochettino deserves credit for an in game decision to change formation to one which suited the players on the pitch better and nullified the opposition.
  4. People need to not fixate on the quality of opposition, this game was not easy. They were quarter finalists in this competition more recently than us.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
  1. Sanchez price is irrelevant, especially when the figures we have are press produced. More likely is that it will rise to that amount if he's a success. If that's the case we won't complain.
  2. Formation would look tonnes better if Dier was replaced with Wanyama, who doesn't get sucked deep; Sissoko was replaced with Dembele, who loves receiving the ball and can use it in tight situations and; Winks was replaced by Eriksen, who is more adventurous with the ball. The realty would be more cohesion and playing on the front foot more. Sadly they were all injured.
  3. Pochettino deserves credit for an in game decision to change formation to one which suited the players on the pitch better and nullified the opposition.
  4. People need to not fixate on the quality of opposition, this game was not easy. They were quarter finalists in this competition more recently than us.

Re point 3:

Funny that we haven't heard a peep from people who usually bemoan Poch's tactical changes or the fact that he me makes subs too late - I feel that he made some errors in the initial lineup but rectified it with the early switch in the 2nd half.
 

Hakkz

Svensk hetsporre
Jul 6, 2012
8,196
17,270
Re point 3:

Funny that we haven't heard a peep from people who usually bemoan Poch's tactical changes or the fact that he me makes subs too late - I feel that he made some errors in the initial lineup but rectified it with the early switch in the 2nd half.

I was very surprised when I saw that we were the ones making the sub when Llorente came on. Very happy about it too because we clearly needed to do something about them running at us the way they did BEFORE they actually managed to score. Good job Poch.
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
Thought Kane, Winks, Sissoko all had great games.

We definitely had issues for the first 60 mins but credit to Poch for doing what he thought best and making the tactical change..... It played a lot more to the strengths of the personnel.

Great win in the CL..... Don't care who the opponents are...... 3 goals with no reply away from home is something to applaud when we struggled to get going at all last year.
 

Everlasting Seconds

Well-Known Member
Jan 9, 2014
14,914
26,616
Don't understand people who chose gloominess after last night. Several key players missing, yet a highly acceptable result in must-win game. Some times, we need to count our blessings. As far as I'm concerned, all players contributed to doing the job, so well done to everybody.
 

JonnySpurs

SC Veteran
Jun 4, 2004
5,345
12,398
We really don't need to overcomplicate this one. It's pretty clear to me that Apoel exploited the space in behind our wing backs, particularly when they were caught up the pitch, which happened more often than not because we had all the ball. They sunk 11 men into their own half and looked to hit us on the break in wide areas and it nearly worked for them, they just lacked the quality to finish in good areas.

To my mind the switch to a back 4 was a revelation and changed everything. We scored 2 quick, brilliant goals not long after and it prevented Apoel from getting in behind us on the flanks as they'd done before. The only thing about it I would say is that I wish Poch had done it sooner. We rode our luck for the first 60 mins and can be grateful to Harry for being so damn good.

Toby and Sanchez seemed a bit off colour without Vertonghen, who really is the experienced head of the 3 of them. I thought Winks was largely excellent. Quick passing, agile and strong on the ball, he's looking back to his best so thats awesome news. Sonny was quiet and struggled to make an impact, criminally under-hit a pass in the 1st half which would have seen Trippier in on goal. Dier was quietly solid.

Lastly, if you're still panning Sissoko then you've got an agend and need to grow up and get over it. The kid has improved massively this season and was very good last night. His first touch is what stands out to me, it looks so much better as his confidence has grown. He got his head and picked out Harry with a lovely assist and whilst he still lacks some finesse, he is perfoming far better than he did all of last season. He's become a valuable asset to the squad now and people need to start giving him the credit he deserves.

Never gonna be an easy game, professional job done with a lot of absentees.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,513
Personally MP, I think it's all about the selections he's making and the tactical application. I think with the poor midfield options we have right now, it's not a bad idea, he just needs to get the personnel right and the application of it better. Sissoko in that 8 1/2 role is a massive problem because in him and Dier you've got two players who don't want the ball under any pressure and can't play out from any kind of pressure, and playing a high line and pushed up fb's, you have to pressure the ball higher up and stop teams being able to play those counter balls between channels. This is where Alli pissng the ball away and being a poor presser hurts us too. Kane doesn't help sometimes either, sometimes holding onto the ball too long, then you have people like Sissoko and Dier who can't play clever, quick, incisive passes.

I think what we are seeing now is not about the formation, it's almost entirely a consequence of Poch neglecting the CM area of the pitch. We've seen this before at Spurs, players like Wanyama hide a multitude of sins with their tireless ferociousness, mopping up and fighting fires all over the place, doing the job of 2 people. With him out, all of a sudden, things are looking a bit "Redknapp". We desperately needed to improve this area of the pitch and instead we added a rookie CB, the French Walker+, and back up striker who's even slower than Kane.


Poch said post match he changed things because he wanted us to press it better, but his

I think it is a bit of everything - formation, selection, application.

Formation doesn't help the press though from what I am watching. The two strikers get taken out of the game immediately if the ball gets switched to their fullbacks, we then have a lot of 'do I go to the man?' type thoughts from centre mids who are slow getting across (that's if we have a midfield in place in any case, with them all doing their own thing...), the wingback then getting drawn out leaving the wide attacker, and then all of a sudden the wide attacker free in a great area because our centre backs (particularly Alderweireld) don't want to get drawn out wide.
 

TEESSIDE1

Married, new job and Spurs on the up!
Jul 3, 2006
15,089
18,780
It's not just this season. Last season he was pretty lacklustre too.

Wasn’t Walker quoted as saying why is he getting grief for wanting a big money move when Dier had apparently also spat his dummy out and had his head turned at an earlier date.

We spent all summer repeating how vital Dier is to our squad due to his versatility but since his 1st season in central midfield where he excelled, he was suspect at centre back and has been disappointing on the whole since returning to midfield.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
Outstanding...............9........Kane. My adopted: Going to increase his pocket money to ten bob..
Pretty Damn Good.....7........Winks.
Not bad at all.............6+.......Lloris, Sanchez, Toby, Davies
Alright........................6.........Dier, Trippier, Sissoko,Llorente
Hmmm.......................5.........Aurier.
Nope..........................5-........Son, Nkoudou.

Good result away from home in the Champions' League FFS
Average performance with key players missing.
Clock lost it's tick but didn't stop.
 

dimiSpur

There's always next year...
Aug 9, 2008
5,844
6,750
Obviously Harry gets man of the match for his perfect hattrick, however Winks was exceptional last night. At times he reminded me of Luka Modric with his little bursts of pace to get away from opponents. I would like to see him in our starting XI next to Dier instead of Sissoko.

Aurier and Sanchez looked shaky last night, which is a worry. Especially Aurier.
 

coy-spurs1882

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
3,989
10,442
Obviously Harry gets man of the match for his perfect hattrick, however Winks was exceptional last night. At times he reminded me of Luka Modric with his little bursts of pace to get away from opponents. I would like to see him in our starting XI next to Dier instead of Sissoko.

Aurier and Sanchez looked shaky last night, which is a worry. Especially Aurier.
regarding aurier i think the red card was affecting him, making him a little bit fearful of getting another one
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
The faster, stronger defensively Aurier had just been out positioned defensively and pretty much out paced.......

Yeah, but do we think that's less likely to happen to Trippier?

I acknowledged that it ended up being a good thing, I'm just not sure of the thought process behind it.

By going 442, with orthodox fb's and Sissoko/Son ahead of them, we we definitely no longer playing a wing back type system, and we're trying to give the fb's protection from those moves that, as you say, had just caught out Aurier.

Now, I didn't really want us to sign Aurier, and I said before he played, and everyone else was sucking each other off about getting him, that he was a good RB but he was flawed too, and would have happily stuck with Trippier and KWP. Because in the system we play, with very attacking fb's, i think their qualities (obviously with game time needed for KWP) would generally be more useful.

But defensively, I'd say Aurier definitely edges it, so in the tactical switch last night, which was primarily a defensive one, I initially (before Trippier did what he did) couldn't see the logic.
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
Yeah, but do we think that's less likely to happen to Trippier?

I acknowledged that it ended up being a good thing, I'm just not sure of the thought process behind it.

By going 442, with orthodox fb's and Sissoko/Son ahead of them, we we definitely no longer playing a wing back type system, and we're trying to give the fb's protection from those moves that, as you say, had just caught out Aurier.

Now, I didn't really want us to sign Aurier, and I said before he played, and everyone else was sucking each other off about getting him, that he was a good RB but he was flawed too, and would have happily stuck with Trippier and KWP. Because in the system we play, with very attacking fb's, i think their qualities (obviously with game time needed for KWP) would generally be more useful.

But defensively, I'd say Aurier definitely edges it, so in the tactical switch last night, which was primarily a defensive one, I initially (before Trippier did what he did) couldn't see the logic.

Oh I'm not saying that Trippier is the better defender.... Just at the time the switch made complete sense based on what had just happened.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
No idea where this Sanchez looks shaky comes from.At 21 he looks superbly assured,and gives us something completely different with his presence.It also means Toby and Jan can push further up the pitch to make passes like Toby did last night.Honestly believe if he was playing in Burnley game we wouldn't have conceded,his extra pace would have got to wood and blocked that shot.His canny push on Carroll saved us 2 pts for sure and a world of embarrassment.Everyone raving about the Manchester clubs,but for that very late wood goal and width of a crossbar(Kane Swansea) we'd be 1 pt behind.Im very encouraged by our start and think Sanchez is a big part of that.Seeing mendy is out for season ,means city are effectively down to 4 fit defenders already.United are being overhyped.We have the best defence by a mile and if Kane keeps banging them in ,we won't be far off this season.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
I think it is a bit of everything - formation, selection, application.

Formation doesn't help the press though from what I am watching. The two strikers get taken out of the game immediately if the ball gets switched to their fullbacks, we then have a lot of 'do I go to the man?' type thoughts from centre mids who are slow getting across (that's if we have a midfield in place in any case, with them all doing their own thing...), the wingback then getting drawn out leaving the wide attacker, and then all of a sudden the wide attacker free in a great area because our centre backs (particularly Alderweireld) don't want to get drawn out wide.


I think what we've seen so far is Poch apply it over cautiously against Chelsea, with Dier, Wanyama and Dembele (with Dier and Dembele in the "8.5" roles) and then apply it too flimsily since with Dier, Sissoko and Eriksen. I think if you either swap Wanyama for Sissoko, or Dier for Wanyama you'd see it to better effect.

IE:

Trippier-----------------------Dier----------------------Davies
V V
/\ /\
----Winks--------------- ------------Wanyama/Dembele
V /\ V
< Eriksen >
V
Kane




Trippier-----------------------Wanyama----------------------Davies
V V
/\ /\
----Winks--------------- ------------Eriksen/Dembele
V /\ V
< Alli/Eriksen >
V
Kane

This is why I have wanted us to progress Onomah and/or buy a player like Tolisso or Keita. to play that "8" or "8.5" role now being played by Eriksen or Sissoko.

It's really more of a 3331 or 3142, and our fb's are supposed to counter their fb's in the problem you suggest, when the opposition switch it wide and take out our two forwards.

I don't think it's a catch all format, I agree with much of what you say, but I do think it could have merits if applied better tactically and with better balanced selections. And I really, really don't understand why he doesn't just play a simple 433 sometimes, which would add a body to the forward press and allow us to counter attack better. Many games I'm sure we could cope without 3cb's, and the 433 is (partly) designed to counter the 3CB system, which so many are playing these days. When we bought Sissoko I assumed it was because we would play some kind of 433 at some stage, because it's the only system he's really viable in, as a wide forward going directly at LB's and LCB's, not as a CM or CM/AM hybrid which is what he's played lately and clearly leaves massive holes when he bombs forward, and doesn't give us control when deeper because he's such a poor footballer.
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
On what basis?

1) Aurier had just been bested on the right wing.... He just looked tired and actually Apoel had been playing a lot on the right side since the break.

Regardless of whether Trippier is our best defensive right back, he should be at a level to cope with Apoel's offensive play when sat in a back 4 so again, it made sense to move him over to his favoured side.

2) we had been the worse team since half time and clearly some kind of tactical change needed to be made. They had a number of chance to maybe 1 of ours.

So for me, Aurier was the right choice to be replaced, I even said so at the time to my friends.

And regarding formation.... while I could have also imagined a 433 with the personal on the pitch, once it was obvious we were playing a 442 I just felt like it suited the players and gave us back control of the midfield.
 

scat1620

L'espion mal fait
May 11, 2008
16,285
52,506
On what basis?
Sometimes switching out a player who's being given a torrid time by an opponent will work even if on paper the 'replacement' player doesn't seem to have the attributes not to suffer the same problems against the troublemaking opposition player.

The one that really leaps to mind is that game against Villa where Ashley Young's pace was giving our normally pacy right-back (actually can't remember if it was Walker or Hutton or someone else) an absolute rinsing time and time again. In response we did a straight-swap substitution to bring on Charlie "Even Huddlestone could out sprint me" Corluka, and despite it seeming like Young would continue to blast past at speed whenever he chose, Corluka immediately just put Young in his pocket and kept him there for the remainder of the game. <insert own views about how you always liked Corluka more than any other Spurs RB of his era anyway, so of course this was no surprise, here>

Not exactly analogous, but I feel last night's Trippier-Aurier change was cut from similar cloth. Aurier's man just had the beating of him last night, and by hook or by crook Trippier dealt with him more effectively.
 
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