Race for the Top 4 - 2017/18

Luka Van der Bale said:

You genuinely think Pogba wouldn’t get into our team?

Click to expand...

I was comparing squads not teams.Saying who I would take from their squad to replace in our squad.And said I’d prob only take 5 or 6.And yes I’d take Pogba over sissoko in a straight swap as a squad player.

Pep gets rattled so easily.Losing it over the quality of the ball last night as a reason they didn’t score 5 lol.

Looking at the fixtures I think the title will be decided in the period after next international break to the new year.Its such an intense period.Teams left in carabo will have 9 games in December.They will also have a game every 3 days from 18/11-1/1. I’m sure they squeezed an extra PL midweek fixture in this period.Sure it was never as intense as this.Anyway as I said in match thread the week break mid December could be very helpful.Even though many will rest players theres Still preparation and injuries to consider.

Just checked in same period last season we only had 10 games.So Theres 3 extra PL games.

coys200 said:

Just checked in same period last season we only had 10 games.So Theres 3 extra PL games.

Click to expand...

Maybe that highlights the importance of last night's rotation, those players will be better prepared next time round and with that fixture grouping they are very likely to get called on again.

worcestersauce said:

Maybe that highlights the importance of last night's rotation, those players will be better prepared next time round and with that fixture grouping they are very likely to get called on again.

Click to expand...

Yup there’s gonna be a load of rotation with 13 games in 6 weeks.

Some interestingbits in here which is related to this thread as it talks about a Top 6 mini league which is obviously relevant to who will go on and win the title.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-fans-everton-west-ham?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

The band plays on but dissatisfaction with the Premier League is growing

Jacob Steinberg
Many top-flight clubs have been stripped of the right to dream of anything grander than existing. The result is boredom in some places and anger in others



An Everton supporter sarcastically waves in the direction of Ronaldo Koeman during Everton’s 5-2 defeat to Arsenal at the weekend, which led to the Dutchman being sacked as manager. Photograph: Chris Brunskill Ltd/Getty Images

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@JacobSteinberg
Thursday 26 October 2017 15.30 BST

Summer is a time of optimism for fans. The combination of new signings, managers and beginnings is the recipe for a heady, fantastical concoction. Forget about everything that went wrong in the 12 months before, the slate has been wiped clean. Hope trumps cynicism and everything feels possible as the season gets under way, at which point reality begins to take hold.

This isn’t new. One of the more counterintuitive joys of fandom is revelling in negativity to the point where it almost becomes a competition to see who can absorb the most comic ineptitude. Treating incompetence with humour is a way to maintain sanity, like Cheryl David sighing and rolling her eyes at her husband’s latest bout of calamitous behaviour in Curb Your Enthusiasm. The problem with this approach, however, is that everyone has a line and one of the main takeaways from the first two months of the Premier League season is how much unhappiness there is in the stands.

It goes without saying that it is the best and most competitive league in the world; we know this because the man on the television says so. Selling the product has been perfected to a tee. Stadiums are packed, television rights are sold at astronomical fees, clubs are richer than ever and there is little sense the bubble is about to burst any time soon. Complaints about inequality are aired every year, but nothing much is done and people keep buying tickets and tuning in. Harking back to a supposed golden age is, well, a bit passé. Ten years ago people were grumbling about the dominance of the Big Four, while Manchester United won everything in the 90s. Misty-eyed nostalgia is easier to dismiss if it just seems like there is no pleasing some people.

Despite that it has been possible to detect a growing swell of discontent at the homes of lesser clubs. Boredom reigns in some places, anger in others. It is a function of the same storylines playing out time and again, the inevitable consequence of people looking far and wide for a semblance of hope and not finding any. Dissatisfaction is not everywhere but it is spreading and that should be a concern for those in charge.

Look at the Premier League table and it is quicker to tick off the happy clubs. Manchester is an obvious place to start, while Chelsea are the champions and Tottenham Hotspur have not had it this good since 1961. It is still all new and exciting for the promoted clubs, while Marco Silva has breathed fresh life into Watford and Sean Dyche continues to work wonders at Burnley. Bournemouth’s fans, although their team have made a poor start, have enough perspective to remember the club almost going out of business in 2009.

But the likelihood is that Watford will finish no higher than seventh and it is then that they will find themselves in a position occupied by clubs of similar stature in recent years, peering upwards and wondering without being able to feel the sky’s the limit. It is this stifled ambition that condemns the top flight’s cramped middle, exacerbating their frustration, stripping them of the right to dream of anything grander than simply existing.

Leicester City winning the title two seasons ago could be seen as evidence of English football’s unpredictability, if only that team had stayed together. Instead N’Golo Kanté joined Chelsea, who restored order last year, and Leicester have appointed Claude Puel as their latest manager after the ruthless sacking of Craig Shakespeare.

The beauty of Leicester, beyond the glorious freakishness, was they made everything feel possible. Leicester’s usual rivals looked at them and wondered if it could have been them. West Ham, inspired by the Upton Park farewell, beat every top side at least once and almost qualified for the Champions League; Southampton finished sixth; Romelu Lukaku’s goals made Everton look like they were a good defence away from challenging; and Stoke won plaudits for the front three of Marko Arnautovic, Bojan Krkic and Xherdan Shaqiri. It seemed that increased television money was levelling the playing field.

However the resounding response from the big sides to this insurrection can best be summed up by Manchester United breaking the world transfer record to sign Paul Pogba despite not qualifying for the Champions League. The odds, ultimately, were still stacked in their favour and last season brought us the Big Six, creating a huge imbalance. Every team below Everton finished with a negative goal difference, while six points and a clutch of interchangeable mediocrities separated Southampton in eighth and Watford in 17th.

Southampton sacked Puel because his football was dull. Finishing eighth would normally have been cause for celebration but not when Everton were 15 points clear in seventh and United were even further away in sixth. It had not been long since Southampton had delighted in their team’s thrilling youthful potential but it was never realised. Other clubs reap the benefits of Southampton’s academy and scouting ability. Initially Southampton coped but continual regeneration takes a toll.

The effect is damaging. Transfer fees went wild in the summer but few teams have improved and anger tends to follow when hype is revealed to be empty rhetoric, especially when people are paying so much for tickets and television subscriptions. Everton, cut adrift on their own little seventh-placed island, spent £140m and have managed to get worse. The early excitement swiftly disappeared, leaving Evertonians to confront the futility of it all. Eerie silence fell over Goodison Park during the recent Europa League draw with 10-man Apollon Limassol despite the significance of the game. The only hint of an atmosphere were the jeers at full-time. Having shown no sign of being able to reverse the decline, Ronald Koeman was fired after the 5-2 home defeat by Arsenal last Sunday.

West Ham fans are in a similar frame of mind. The mood at the unloved London Stadium was bizarre during the recent win over Swansea. The home fans booed backpasses to Joe Hart, a short free-kick by Aaron Cresswell and Slaven Bilic’s decision to replace Javier Hernández with Diafra Sakho. The substitute scored the winner but scrappy last-minute wins over Swansea were not in the brochure when West Ham left Upton Park. The frustration stems from there being no sign of them achieving their goal of reaching the next level.

But how is it possible in a league in which Manchester City have a bigger budget for full-backs than most have for an entire squad? The season is young but the evidence suggests it is becoming even tougher for smaller sides to compete. Everyone is richer but the gap continues to widen as the chasing pack fruitlessly try to work out how to make the most of the extra money.

While they get on with that, a six-team mini-league is forming at the top. Standards rise at one end and drop at the other. Rob Smyth put it nicely in the Guardian’s Arsenal v Brighton minute-by-minute report when he said whoever finishes bottom of that mini-league “will probably be the best sixth-placed team in Premier League history”. Alarmingly those leading clubs have been trying to grab an even bigger share of the television money from overseas, further distorting the competition, although Arsenal fans would still be one defeat away from a Wenger Out meltdown and Liverpool would still have to live with the inconsistency that has blighted them for years.

The consequence of financial inequality is less competitiveness, heightening pragmatism. Business priorities take over. Staying in the league, keeping the money rolling in, becomes more important than taking risks. Clubs learn there is little value in trying something new; better to maintain the status quo. It is the perfect environment for a manager with Tony Pulis’s organisational qualities, although the problem with that theory is that people do not get into football for romance of a balance sheet. West Brom are unlikely to go down under Pulis but their fans are bored. Stoke City, meanwhile, have stalled after a bright start. Swansea are bracing themselves for another relegation battle.

Whether any of this matters to the Big Six or the game’s powerbrokers is debatable, especially when the added factor of a hopelessly lopsided Champions League group stage suggests this might simply be the prelude to a European Super League. Yet if it turns out the Premier League is not focused only on keeping a select few happy, it should not ignore the rising dissatisfaction at many of its grounds. People can still vote with their feet or reach for the remote. Cheryl humoured Larry for a while, after all, but she left him in the end.

coys200 said:

Looking at the fixtures I think the title will be decided in the period after next international break to the new year.Its such an intense period.Teams left in carabo will have 9 games in December.They will also have a game every 3 days from 18/11-1/1. I’m sure they squeezed an extra PL midweek fixture in this period.Sure it was never as intense as this.Anyway as I said in match thread the week break mid December could be very helpful.Even though many will rest players theres Still preparation and injuries to consider.

Click to expand...

We'll know then if there will be a title race or just a big race for top 4 imo. I have a feeling there will be one team who pull away from the pack and stroll to the title while 2/3/4/5 will be the closest its been for a long time.

ljinko888 said:

We'll know then if there will be a title race or just a big race for top 4 imo. I have a feeling there will be one team who pull away from the pack and stroll to the title while 2/3/4/5 will be the closest its been for a long time.

Click to expand...

Maybe but I don't think we'll pull away until the end of March.

muppetman said:

Some interestingbits in here which is related to this thread as it talks about a Top 6 mini league which is obviously relevant to who will go on and win the title.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-fans-everton-west-ham?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

The band plays on but dissatisfaction with the Premier League is growing

Jacob Steinberg
Many top-flight clubs have been stripped of the right to dream of anything grander than existing. The result is boredom in some places and anger in others



An Everton supporter sarcastically waves in the direction of Ronaldo Koeman during Everton’s 5-2 defeat to Arsenal at the weekend, which led to the Dutchman being sacked as manager. Photograph: Chris Brunskill Ltd/Getty Images

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@JacobSteinberg
Thursday 26 October 2017 15.30 BST

Summer is a time of optimism for fans. The combination of new signings, managers and beginnings is the recipe for a heady, fantastical concoction. Forget about everything that went wrong in the 12 months before, the slate has been wiped clean. Hope trumps cynicism and everything feels possible as the season gets under way, at which point reality begins to take hold.

This isn’t new. One of the more counterintuitive joys of fandom is revelling in negativity to the point where it almost becomes a competition to see who can absorb the most comic ineptitude. Treating incompetence with humour is a way to maintain sanity, like Cheryl David sighing and rolling her eyes at her husband’s latest bout of calamitous behaviour in Curb Your Enthusiasm. The problem with this approach, however, is that everyone has a line and one of the main takeaways from the first two months of the Premier League season is how much unhappiness there is in the stands.

It goes without saying that it is the best and most competitive league in the world; we know this because the man on the television says so. Selling the product has been perfected to a tee. Stadiums are packed, television rights are sold at astronomical fees, clubs are richer than ever and there is little sense the bubble is about to burst any time soon. Complaints about inequality are aired every year, but nothing much is done and people keep buying tickets and tuning in. Harking back to a supposed golden age is, well, a bit passé. Ten years ago people were grumbling about the dominance of the Big Four, while Manchester United won everything in the 90s. Misty-eyed nostalgia is easier to dismiss if it just seems like there is no pleasing some people.

Despite that it has been possible to detect a growing swell of discontent at the homes of lesser clubs. Boredom reigns in some places, anger in others. It is a function of the same storylines playing out time and again, the inevitable consequence of people looking far and wide for a semblance of hope and not finding any. Dissatisfaction is not everywhere but it is spreading and that should be a concern for those in charge.

Look at the Premier League table and it is quicker to tick off the happy clubs. Manchester is an obvious place to start, while Chelsea are the champions and Tottenham Hotspur have not had it this good since 1961. It is still all new and exciting for the promoted clubs, while Marco Silva has breathed fresh life into Watford and Sean Dyche continues to work wonders at Burnley. Bournemouth’s fans, although their team have made a poor start, have enough perspective to remember the club almost going out of business in 2009.

But the likelihood is that Watford will finish no higher than seventh and it is then that they will find themselves in a position occupied by clubs of similar stature in recent years, peering upwards and wondering without being able to feel the sky’s the limit. It is this stifled ambition that condemns the top flight’s cramped middle, exacerbating their frustration, stripping them of the right to dream of anything grander than simply existing.

Leicester City winning the title two seasons ago could be seen as evidence of English football’s unpredictability, if only that team had stayed together. Instead N’Golo Kanté joined Chelsea, who restored order last year, and Leicester have appointed Claude Puel as their latest manager after the ruthless sacking of Craig Shakespeare.

The beauty of Leicester, beyond the glorious freakishness, was they made everything feel possible. Leicester’s usual rivals looked at them and wondered if it could have been them. West Ham, inspired by the Upton Park farewell, beat every top side at least once and almost qualified for the Champions League; Southampton finished sixth; Romelu Lukaku’s goals made Everton look like they were a good defence away from challenging; and Stoke won plaudits for the front three of Marko Arnautovic, Bojan Krkic and Xherdan Shaqiri. It seemed that increased television money was levelling the playing field.

However the resounding response from the big sides to this insurrection can best be summed up by Manchester United breaking the world transfer record to sign Paul Pogba despite not qualifying for the Champions League. The odds, ultimately, were still stacked in their favour and last season brought us the Big Six, creating a huge imbalance. Every team below Everton finished with a negative goal difference, while six points and a clutch of interchangeable mediocrities separated Southampton in eighth and Watford in 17th.

Southampton sacked Puel because his football was dull. Finishing eighth would normally have been cause for celebration but not when Everton were 15 points clear in seventh and United were even further away in sixth. It had not been long since Southampton had delighted in their team’s thrilling youthful potential but it was never realised. Other clubs reap the benefits of Southampton’s academy and scouting ability. Initially Southampton coped but continual regeneration takes a toll.

The effect is damaging. Transfer fees went wild in the summer but few teams have improved and anger tends to follow when hype is revealed to be empty rhetoric, especially when people are paying so much for tickets and television subscriptions. Everton, cut adrift on their own little seventh-placed island, spent £140m and have managed to get worse. The early excitement swiftly disappeared, leaving Evertonians to confront the futility of it all. Eerie silence fell over Goodison Park during the recent Europa League draw with 10-man Apollon Limassol despite the significance of the game. The only hint of an atmosphere were the jeers at full-time. Having shown no sign of being able to reverse the decline, Ronald Koeman was fired after the 5-2 home defeat by Arsenal last Sunday.

West Ham fans are in a similar frame of mind. The mood at the unloved London Stadium was bizarre during the recent win over Swansea. The home fans booed backpasses to Joe Hart, a short free-kick by Aaron Cresswell and Slaven Bilic’s decision to replace Javier Hernández with Diafra Sakho. The substitute scored the winner but scrappy last-minute wins over Swansea were not in the brochure when West Ham left Upton Park. The frustration stems from there being no sign of them achieving their goal of reaching the next level.

But how is it possible in a league in which Manchester City have a bigger budget for full-backs than most have for an entire squad? The season is young but the evidence suggests it is becoming even tougher for smaller sides to compete. Everyone is richer but the gap continues to widen as the chasing pack fruitlessly try to work out how to make the most of the extra money.

While they get on with that, a six-team mini-league is forming at the top. Standards rise at one end and drop at the other. Rob Smyth put it nicely in the Guardian’s Arsenal v Brighton minute-by-minute report when he said whoever finishes bottom of that mini-league “will probably be the best sixth-placed team in Premier League history”. Alarmingly those leading clubs have been trying to grab an even bigger share of the television money from overseas, further distorting the competition, although Arsenal fans would still be one defeat away from a Wenger Out meltdown and Liverpool would still have to live with the inconsistency that has blighted them for years.

The consequence of financial inequality is less competitiveness, heightening pragmatism. Business priorities take over. Staying in the league, keeping the money rolling in, becomes more important than taking risks. Clubs learn there is little value in trying something new; better to maintain the status quo. It is the perfect environment for a manager with Tony Pulis’s organisational qualities, although the problem with that theory is that people do not get into football for romance of a balance sheet. West Brom are unlikely to go down under Pulis but their fans are bored. Stoke City, meanwhile, have stalled after a bright start. Swansea are bracing themselves for another relegation battle.

Whether any of this matters to the Big Six or the game’s powerbrokers is debatable, especially when the added factor of a hopelessly lopsided Champions League group stage suggests this might simply be the prelude to a European Super League. Yet if it turns out the Premier League is not focused only on keeping a select few happy, it should not ignore the rising dissatisfaction at many of its grounds. People can still vote with their feet or reach for the remote. Cheryl humoured Larry for a while, after all, but she left him in the end.

Click to expand...

Every time I read a moan-fest about the PL in 2017 I immediately wonder which team the author supports and why they are moaning now vs 10, 15, 20 years ago. Arse ? Villa ? Bolton ? Charlton ? Portsmouth ?

Not only has the big four become 6 but we have just had a complete outsider win the prem. And the side with the most points in the last 2 seasons (us) is the one with the lowest wage bill of the 6.

Then there are several clubs who, financially, are knocking on the door of the 6 and are all a decent managerial or ownership change from doing so on the pitch. Everton, Newcastle and the Spammers. Villa and previously Leeds were in that group only a few years ago and will surely be back up before long

Every year the new guaranteed portion of TV deals and the worldwide accessibility of fans and sponsors via the internet acts as a leveller and makes it more likely rather than less likely that other teams can break in.

Then compare this to Spain, France, Germany, Holland, Portugal and Italy and be careful what you wish for !

coys200 said:

Just checked in same period last season we only had 10 games.So Theres 3 extra PL games.

Click to expand...

I believe with it being the World Cup year they might be trying to have less games the 2nd half of the season in hope of going into the tournament not having such a heavy ending.

It's a worry that we might have reached a bit of a 'peak' with the Madrid and Liverpool games. After the poor second half against West Ham, the Kane injury and now having to play away at Man Utd before Real Madrid it is a potentially ' wheels off the bus' moment so lets hope we can stop that happening - a couple of draws would be pretty acceptable in my book and then we could move on with some confidence.

muppetman said:

Some interestingbits in here which is related to this thread as it talks about a Top 6 mini league which is obviously relevant to who will go on and win the title.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-fans-everton-west-ham?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

The band plays on but dissatisfaction with the Premier League is growing

Jacob Steinberg
Many top-flight clubs have been stripped of the right to dream of anything grander than existing. The result is boredom in some places and anger in others



An Everton supporter sarcastically waves in the direction of Ronaldo Koeman during Everton’s 5-2 defeat to Arsenal at the weekend, which led to the Dutchman being sacked as manager. Photograph: Chris Brunskill Ltd/Getty Images

• View more sharing options

Shares
39
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444
Contact author

@JacobSteinberg
Thursday 26 October 2017 15.30 BST

Summer is a time of optimism for fans. The combination of new signings, managers and beginnings is the recipe for a heady, fantastical concoction. Forget about everything that went wrong in the 12 months before, the slate has been wiped clean. Hope trumps cynicism and everything feels possible as the season gets under way, at which point reality begins to take hold.

This isn’t new. One of the more counterintuitive joys of fandom is revelling in negativity to the point where it almost becomes a competition to see who can absorb the most comic ineptitude. Treating incompetence with humour is a way to maintain sanity, like Cheryl David sighing and rolling her eyes at her husband’s latest bout of calamitous behaviour in Curb Your Enthusiasm. The problem with this approach, however, is that everyone has a line and one of the main takeaways from the first two months of the Premier League season is how much unhappiness there is in the stands.

It goes without saying that it is the best and most competitive league in the world; we know this because the man on the television says so. Selling the product has been perfected to a tee. Stadiums are packed, television rights are sold at astronomical fees, clubs are richer than ever and there is little sense the bubble is about to burst any time soon. Complaints about inequality are aired every year, but nothing much is done and people keep buying tickets and tuning in. Harking back to a supposed golden age is, well, a bit passé. Ten years ago people were grumbling about the dominance of the Big Four, while Manchester United won everything in the 90s. Misty-eyed nostalgia is easier to dismiss if it just seems like there is no pleasing some people.

Despite that it has been possible to detect a growing swell of discontent at the homes of lesser clubs. Boredom reigns in some places, anger in others. It is a function of the same storylines playing out time and again, the inevitable consequence of people looking far and wide for a semblance of hope and not finding any. Dissatisfaction is not everywhere but it is spreading and that should be a concern for those in charge.

Look at the Premier League table and it is quicker to tick off the happy clubs. Manchester is an obvious place to start, while Chelsea are the champions and Tottenham Hotspur have not had it this good since 1961. It is still all new and exciting for the promoted clubs, while Marco Silva has breathed fresh life into Watford and Sean Dyche continues to work wonders at Burnley. Bournemouth’s fans, although their team have made a poor start, have enough perspective to remember the club almost going out of business in 2009.

But the likelihood is that Watford will finish no higher than seventh and it is then that they will find themselves in a position occupied by clubs of similar stature in recent years, peering upwards and wondering without being able to feel the sky’s the limit. It is this stifled ambition that condemns the top flight’s cramped middle, exacerbating their frustration, stripping them of the right to dream of anything grander than simply existing.

Leicester City winning the title two seasons ago could be seen as evidence of English football’s unpredictability, if only that team had stayed together. Instead N’Golo Kanté joined Chelsea, who restored order last year, and Leicester have appointed Claude Puel as their latest manager after the ruthless sacking of Craig Shakespeare.

The beauty of Leicester, beyond the glorious freakishness, was they made everything feel possible. Leicester’s usual rivals looked at them and wondered if it could have been them. West Ham, inspired by the Upton Park farewell, beat every top side at least once and almost qualified for the Champions League; Southampton finished sixth; Romelu Lukaku’s goals made Everton look like they were a good defence away from challenging; and Stoke won plaudits for the front three of Marko Arnautovic, Bojan Krkic and Xherdan Shaqiri. It seemed that increased television money was levelling the playing field.

However the resounding response from the big sides to this insurrection can best be summed up by Manchester United breaking the world transfer record to sign Paul Pogba despite not qualifying for the Champions League. The odds, ultimately, were still stacked in their favour and last season brought us the Big Six, creating a huge imbalance. Every team below Everton finished with a negative goal difference, while six points and a clutch of interchangeable mediocrities separated Southampton in eighth and Watford in 17th.

Southampton sacked Puel because his football was dull. Finishing eighth would normally have been cause for celebration but not when Everton were 15 points clear in seventh and United were even further away in sixth. It had not been long since Southampton had delighted in their team’s thrilling youthful potential but it was never realised. Other clubs reap the benefits of Southampton’s academy and scouting ability. Initially Southampton coped but continual regeneration takes a toll.

The effect is damaging. Transfer fees went wild in the summer but few teams have improved and anger tends to follow when hype is revealed to be empty rhetoric, especially when people are paying so much for tickets and television subscriptions. Everton, cut adrift on their own little seventh-placed island, spent £140m and have managed to get worse. The early excitement swiftly disappeared, leaving Evertonians to confront the futility of it all. Eerie silence fell over Goodison Park during the recent Europa League draw with 10-man Apollon Limassol despite the significance of the game. The only hint of an atmosphere were the jeers at full-time. Having shown no sign of being able to reverse the decline, Ronald Koeman was fired after the 5-2 home defeat by Arsenal last Sunday.

West Ham fans are in a similar frame of mind. The mood at the unloved London Stadium was bizarre during the recent win over Swansea. The home fans booed backpasses to Joe Hart, a short free-kick by Aaron Cresswell and Slaven Bilic’s decision to replace Javier Hernández with Diafra Sakho. The substitute scored the winner but scrappy last-minute wins over Swansea were not in the brochure when West Ham left Upton Park. The frustration stems from there being no sign of them achieving their goal of reaching the next level.

But how is it possible in a league in which Manchester City have a bigger budget for full-backs than most have for an entire squad? The season is young but the evidence suggests it is becoming even tougher for smaller sides to compete. Everyone is richer but the gap continues to widen as the chasing pack fruitlessly try to work out how to make the most of the extra money.

While they get on with that, a six-team mini-league is forming at the top. Standards rise at one end and drop at the other. Rob Smyth put it nicely in the Guardian’s Arsenal v Brighton minute-by-minute report when he said whoever finishes bottom of that mini-league “will probably be the best sixth-placed team in Premier League history”. Alarmingly those leading clubs have been trying to grab an even bigger share of the television money from overseas, further distorting the competition, although Arsenal fans would still be one defeat away from a Wenger Out meltdown and Liverpool would still have to live with the inconsistency that has blighted them for years.

The consequence of financial inequality is less competitiveness, heightening pragmatism. Business priorities take over. Staying in the league, keeping the money rolling in, becomes more important than taking risks. Clubs learn there is little value in trying something new; better to maintain the status quo. It is the perfect environment for a manager with Tony Pulis’s organisational qualities, although the problem with that theory is that people do not get into football for romance of a balance sheet. West Brom are unlikely to go down under Pulis but their fans are bored. Stoke City, meanwhile, have stalled after a bright start. Swansea are bracing themselves for another relegation battle.

Whether any of this matters to the Big Six or the game’s powerbrokers is debatable, especially when the added factor of a hopelessly lopsided Champions League group stage suggests this might simply be the prelude to a European Super League. Yet if it turns out the Premier League is not focused only on keeping a select few happy, it should not ignore the rising dissatisfaction at many of its grounds. People can still vote with their feet or reach for the remote. Cheryl humoured Larry for a while, after all, but she left him in the end.

Click to expand...

A stupid moan which focuses on the wrong things. The author writes as if Spurs have always been part of the elite English clubs when the reality is that for most of my life Spurs had never finished in the top (or bottom) four. 15 years ago it was either Arsenal or United every year, with Liverpool and Chelsea always the teams making up the numbers. Over the past two years alone we have had 7 different clubs playing CL football and in the past few the monopoly that Arsenal and Utd had over the PL title has been broken. If Spurs do win the league at the 3rd attempt it will be only our third league title in our history, the first since 1961. We have not historically had vastly greater resources than Newcastle or Everton, the former having been a CL club in the past. There is nothing to stop them progressing, indeed there are no guarantees that Liverpool or Arsenal will finish in the top 6 anyway.

The point about Everton spending so much money is of course nonsense, the bigger issue is that their best player whilst Ross Barkley is injured. Meanwhile they have spent poorly.

The only relevant point is Man City's spending and the blatant circumvention of the spirit of FFP.

Adam456 said:

Every time I read a moan-fest about the PL in 2017 I immediately wonder which team the author supports and why they are moaning now vs 10, 15, 20 years ago. Arse ? Villa ? Bolton ? Charlton ? Portsmouth ?

Not only has the big four become 6 but we have just had a complete outsider win the prem. And the side with the most points in the last 2 seasons (us) is the one with the lowest wage bill of the 6.

Then there are several clubs who, financially, are knocking on the door of the 6 and are all a decent managerial or ownership change from doing so on the pitch. Everton, Newcastle and the Spammers. Villa and previously Leeds were in that group only a few years ago and will surely be back up before long

Every year the new guaranteed portion of TV deals and the worldwide accessibility of fans and sponsors via the internet acts as a leveller and makes it more likely rather than less likely that other teams can break in.

Then compare this to Spain, France, Germany, Holland, Portugal and Italy and be careful what you wish for !

Click to expand...

It's easy to take this sort of view as one of the "lucky" teams that gets to be part of the big six club. I remember the jealousy and hatred I had of the "Sky Four" until very recently as it seemed we were never going to be in a position to compete with any of them. The big four became the big six because City won the lottery and bought their way in and Levy has performed absolute miracles at Tottenham. Leicester won the title in an absolute anomaly season, but nobody else has come anywhere close to challenging the elite clubs for any stretch of time without an injection of oil billions.

The reality is we know the league is not fair. Lets be honest the world isn't fair.

It seems for the time being we have broken the top four and can put in title challenges. This has not come through us splashing the cash on the first team only. Levy has invested our funds in the youth system, training facilities, new stadium etc and it has taken over 10 years of Levy's leadership for us to start reaping the benefits from this.

What was to start Villa, Everton and Newcastle doing this? Newcastle were getting regular CL football but put all their money into the first team. Villa had massive financial mismanagment for over a decade ending with O'Neill spending all their funds to get top 6.

If clubs start putting time, effort and money into long-term planning rather than just concentrating on the first team they might in time be able to compete.

SpursDave88 said:

A stupid moan which focuses on the wrong things. The author writes as if Spurs have always been part of the elite English clubs when the reality is that for most of my life Spurs had never finished in the top (or bottom) four. 15 years ago it was either Arsenal or United every year, with Liverpool and Chelsea always the teams making up the numbers. Over the past two years alone we have had 7 different clubs playing CL football and in the past few the monopoly that Arsenal and Utd had over the PL title has been broken. If Spurs do win the league at the 3rd attempt it will be only our third league title in our history, the first since 1961. We have not historically had vastly greater resources than Newcastle or Everton, the former having been a CL club in the past. There is nothing to stop them progressing, indeed there are no guarantees that Liverpool or Arsenal will finish in the top 6 anyway.

The point about Everton spending so much money is of course nonsense, the bigger issue is that their best player whilst Ross Barkley is injured. Meanwhile they have spent poorly.

The only relevant point is Man City's spending and the blatant circumvention of the spirit of FFP.

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The point I took from this isn't that some clubs are bigger than others it's that the money gap is growing. We at Spurs feel hard done by that we cannot compete if ManU, ManC, Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool go in hard for a player - how much worse if you anyone outside the top six?

I think that quite a lot of people are becoming more and more disillusioned with the Premier League and football in general. Don't get me wrong I'm enjoying Spurs under Poch but at least part of that is because of the way we are going about things, however I suspect that Southampton view us in the same way that we view Man City.

Until there is some sort of wage cap this will get worse, not better - see the money that Neymar is now on.

Both of us are not good enough for the title.

We won't because we don't get enough results against the top 6 and Manchester United won't because they play absolute turgid,negative football.

Definitely won't mind City winning the title because they are doing it in style and are a delight to watch.

Seriously close this thread... we do it to ourselves every year.

We have no chance of catching City - they are scoring for fun and we cant catch them.... they have had some tough games too so don't say they have had an easy start.

my biggest fear is what will Walker be saying to some of our squad - Toby, Alli etc when he lifts the PL trophy in his first season away from Spurs.... this is my worry

Poch needs to lose his attitude of cups don't matter and deliver the FA Cup this year to give us chance of holding onto some of these players.

StevePil said:

Seriously close this thread... we do it to ourselves every year.

We have no chance of catching City - they are scoring for fun and we cant catch them.... they have had some tough games too so don't say they have had an easy start.

my biggest fear is what will Walker be saying to some of our squad - Toby, Alli etc when he lifts the PL trophy in his first season away from Spurs.... this is my worry

Poch needs to lose his attitude of cups don't matter and deliver the FA Cup this year to give us chance of holding onto some of these players.

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No one does.

NOT in the title race, I think.