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Arsenal vs Tottenham: NLD Match Thread

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shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
14,566
19,651
Great article on BBC website today regarding why the title will not go to North London anytime soon referencing both goons and us.
In relation to us the reporter mentions that on our day we are superb but notes the appallng away record at the top six citing the last win was away to city in 2016 citing what we all know and that is it's not good enough and no title can be won until that is turned around, i think in fairness he has nailed it for both clubs which wasn't heard to work out.
 

Sweetsman

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2011
6,673
6,588
Great article on BBC website today regarding why the title will not go to North London anytime soon referencing both goons and us.
In relation to us the reporter mentions that on our day we are superb but notes the appallng away record at the top six citing the last win was away to city in 2016 citing what we all know and that is it's not good enough and no title can be won until that is turned around, i think in fairness he has nailed it for both clubs which wasn't heard to work out.
Journalists love their tropes and confirmation bias.
 

Sweetsman

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2011
6,673
6,588
Great article on BBC website today regarding why the title will not go to North London anytime soon referencing both goons and us.
In relation to us the reporter mentions that on our day we are superb but notes the appallng away record at the top six citing the last win was away to city in 2016 citing what we all know and that is it's not good enough and no title can be won until that is turned around, i think in fairness he has nailed it for both clubs which wasn't heard to work out.
The reason it won't go to Gooners is that they have systematic problems due to Wenger's blind spots. They always have it in them to turn in performances like yesterday, but it requires the other team to be off colour as we were due to various reasons. They actually played well against City.
As regards us, we have been close two seasons running, but it was form early in the season that cost us, not who we played. Also, both times we were chasing rivals without European commitments.
 

Streetspur77

Happy Clapper
Jul 20, 2017
2,792
9,404
I think you are missing the mark a bit here. It's not vital to win away vs. top 6 to stay in the top 6. However, most fans these days aren't pointing at this weakness in the context of being a top 6 team, but in the context of launching a credible and actual bid for the title. To win PL, it is in absolute terms important to be a team which can show up at any stadium in the country and with overwhelming likelihood win.

Chelsea only gained 2 points more than us in top 6 away games last season and they won the league by 7 points, so that's not where they won the league.

It's just become a false narrative, you can 100% win the league with a poor/average away record against the top 6, and it's even more annoying to hear our own fans go on about it

The problem is that this year no one will get close to city because they've combined the financial backing of a country with a great manager, if something is to be blamed for us not winning the league it's the unregulated rise of money in football, not struggling in the games every team struggle with. We are punching so far above our weight right now
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
14,566
19,651
The reason it won't go to Gooners is that they have systematic problems due to Wenger's blind spots. They always have it in them to turn in performances like yesterday, but it requires the other team to be off colour as we were due to various reasons. They actually played well against City.
As regards us, we have been close two seasons running, but it was form early in the season that cost us, not who we played. Also, both times we were chasing rivals without European commitments.
Chelsea would have won it regardless imo they are serial winners and as a rule Europe or no Europe does not stop them winning year after year but I respect your comments.
 

Sweetsman

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2011
6,673
6,588
Chelsea would have won it regardless imo they are serial winners and as a rule Europe or no Europe does not stop them winning year after year but I respect your comments.
Feeling bad about being sarcastic to you. Think I'm going to have to lie down somewhere dark.
 

idontgetit

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2011
14,404
30,804
Only just got rid of the sads and been able to think about the game. What the fuck happened? Never seen us make so many stupid mistakes and look so knackered. Tactically it seemed like they took advantage of us playing the single CM and swamped all passing lanes from that position. They never tried to occupy the strikers centrally and looked to exploit the channels either side of the back three, who just ended up marking no one. Tactically the only thing I could see that would make difference would have been to take off a CB and put in another a midfielder early in the second half.
 

WiganSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
15,974
32,682
...so we would have won "if only Winks had started?"
...lol...
COYS
Had a fully fit Harry Winks played I think the first half would have been less of a shitshow. If we'd kept the ball better then we'd have more opportunities to hurt them and get the likes of Eriksen involved more. Plus if they don't have the ball they can't score.

They were getting a lot of dangerous possession because we kept pissing the ball away and subsequently we were caught out of shape time and time again.
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
14,566
19,651
Feeling bad about being sarcastic to you. Think I'm going to have to lie down somewhere dark.

Ha ha not sure if your being sarcastic now but I wouldn't worry we all have one thing in common and sometimes we all getting shitty with each other.
 

Everlasting Seconds

Well-Known Member
Jan 9, 2014
14,914
26,616
Chelsea only gained 2 points more than us in top 6 away games last season and they won the league by 7 points, so that's not where they won the league.

It's just become a false narrative, you can 100% win the league with a poor/average away record against the top 6, and it's even more annoying to hear our own fans go on about it

The problem is that this year no one will get close to city because they've combined the financial backing of a country with a great manager, if something is to be blamed for us not winning the league it's the unregulated rise of money in football, not struggling in the games every team struggle with. We are punching so far above our weight right now
Funny you should mention Chelsea, we lost to them away, didn't we. Win for Spurs, and the point difference is only 1. And you say they won more points away vs. top 6. And we lost to them in the semi final in the FA cup, too. So yes, indeed, Chelsea's season was in fact clearly based on showing up for the big matches. Our season now, having already lost to Chelsea, United, and Arsenal, we are making it difficult for our selves. We shouldn't talk about races for the title before we are capable of showing up away in a big match and showing some sort of capability.
 

Sweetsman

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2011
6,673
6,588
Ha ha not sure if your being sarcastic now but I wouldn't worry we all have one thing in common and sometimes we all getting shitty with each other.
The one thing that is separating us from greatness is between the collective ears of the whole club. That's a fine balance, though, between arrogance and complacency. People talk about x-factor players, but that comes from winning big games. We are slowly getting there. What we do is learn quickly and having to play against the Arsenal front three may prepare us for Dortmund.
 

Ionman34

SC Supporter
Jun 1, 2011
7,182
16,793
Funny you should mention Chelsea, we lost to them away, didn't we. Win for Spurs, and the point difference is only 1. And you say they won more points away vs. top 6. And we lost to them in the semi final in the FA cup, too. So yes, indeed, Chelsea's season was in fact clearly based on showing up for the big matches. Our season now, having already lost to Chelsea, United, and Arsenal, we are making it difficult for our selves. We shouldn't talk about races for the title before we are capable of showing up away in a big match and showing some sort of capability.
On the other hand, we turn 4 draws against lower sides into wins and the title is ours.

Titles aren’t decided by away wins against your peers, it’s points accumulation. Win your home games against top 6 and deny them 2 points at theirs means you gain a head to head advantage. It’s the other games where away wins are a must for the title, assuming you don’t drop points at home.

By that logic, away wins at top 6 rivals are superfluous.
 

TheChosenOne

A dislike or neg rep = fat fingers
Dec 13, 2005
47,874
49,705
On the other hand, we turn 4 draws against lower sides into wins and the title is ours.

Titles aren’t decided by away wins against your peers, it’s points accumulation. Win your home games against top 6 and deny them 2 points at theirs means you gain a head to head advantage. It’s the other games where away wins are a must for the title, assuming you don’t drop points at home.

By that logic, away wins at top 6 rivals are superfluous.

One of Sir Alex Ferguson's mantras was to grab up all the home points available (57) and then get as many as possible as his basis for winning Championships.

Too many times we have had valiant wins away from home but have been let down by off days at home where silly points were dropped.
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
14,566
19,651
On the other hand, we turn 4 draws against lower sides into wins and the title is ours.

Titles aren’t decided by away wins against your peers, it’s points accumulation. Win your home games against top 6 and deny them 2 points at theirs means you gain a head to head advantage. It’s the other games where away wins are a must for the title, assuming you don’t drop points at home.

By that logic, away wins at top 6 rivals are superfluous.

Of course whoever gets the most points wins the title that is standard but if you manage to win away at your rivals on a more regular basis you then take the 3 points and deny them into the bargain.
It's a culmination of things including an element of luck that wins you things and which some of those ingredients like our piss poor record away is missing.
Anyway it is all a moot point as quite frankly it's city's title and they are by far and away the best team in the land and will win it by a healthy margin, we must have to try and finish top four if we can which I did not expect this year so if we got fourth it's a bonus.
 

matthew.absurdum

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
3,732
10,120
Great article on BBC website today regarding why the title will not go to North London anytime soon referencing both goons and us.
In relation to us the reporter mentions that on our day we are superb but notes the appallng away record at the top six citing the last win was away to city in 2016 citing what we all know and that is it's not good enough and no title can be won until that is turned around, i think in fairness he has nailed it for both clubs which wasn't heard to work out.

Arsenal fans don't care about the title. They just care about the FA cup
 

Ionman34

SC Supporter
Jun 1, 2011
7,182
16,793
Of course whoever gets the most points wins the title that is standard but if you manage to win away at your rivals on a more regular basis you then take the 3 points and deny them into the bargain.
It's a culmination of things including an element of luck that wins you things and which some of those ingredients like our piss poor record away is missing.
Anyway it is all a moot point as quite frankly it's city's title and they are by far and away the best team in the land and will win it by a healthy margin, we must have to try and finish top four if we can which I did not expect this year so if we got fourth it's a bonus.
Agreed, winning away is, obviously, the preference as it’s a 3 point swing rather than parity, but it’s not a necessity, which is the point I’m making.

I too think City will win at a canter, but they’re this far ahead primarily because they’ve put the “also rans” to the sword at every opportunity whilst no one else has. They don’t need away wins to top 6 sides away now, they just need parity against each of them whilst they hoover up the rest.

City are actually the example that really proves my point.
 
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