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Race for the Top 4 - 2017/18

TH1239

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
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Will this squad drop its performance level if it believes there is no longer a title to chase in the league? Will players put in that extra 10% for a chance to qualify for a competition they've played in the last two seasons? That's the biggest concern we should have, in my opinion, at the moment.

Given our recent performances and injury list, you can't help but think we might have missed our window the last two seasons to win a league title with most of the current core. City are building a super-squad of sorts, and if we can't catch them this season when they're still transitioning in new players, I'm not sure we'll overtake them next year (big transition into a new stadium) or the year after given our precarious situation in regards to wages for our top players, and their ability to spend 300 million pounds every summer for as long as they want building the best team in the world.

That is a testament to the work Pochettino has done, though. Expectations among everyone are so high given the quality of the last two seasons, that if we finished 5th on 73 points this season, some would regard it an unmitigated disaster.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
54,773
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People have changed their tune after yesterday's result but if any of you had watched a bit of city and a bit of us you would have seen that there was a considerable gulf and that the title race was never on.

Their attack and midfield are different class and whilst our defence is good, if we're not scoring enough we're not winning. There's too much luck involved in football to rely on winning by narrow margins. The two offside goals we conceded yesterday are proof of that.

Nah it was on. We blew Liverpool off the park, and played well against Madrid on the biggest stage of all.

City were always favourites, but when we have a fully fit first eleven we're good enough to beat anyone.

Unfortunately injuries are biting hard. Wanyama out so long is really hurting us and Dembele is gradually slipping into the periphery. Clearly not the player he was.

Kane is not right and hasn't been since the Liverpool game. Those factors have cost us.

We needed some luck on the injury front to keep in there, we havn't had it.

To say it was never possible is wrong.
 

Streetspur77

Happy Clapper
Jul 20, 2017
2,792
9,404
God it pains me how right you are. It really does.

They are the quintessence of “the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.”

Their whole must be pretty great then considering the sum of their parts is near on £750 million

I think that phrase is more reserved for teams who haven't just bought success
 

TwanYid

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2013
1,223
3,484
Their whole must be pretty great then considering the sum of their parts is near on £750 million

I think that phrase is more reserved for teams who haven't just bought success

So (position by position, and assuming everyone's healthy) you would take the majority of their players over our players?
 

ohtottenham!

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2013
7,497
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Nah it was on. We blew Liverpool off the park, and played well against Madrid on the biggest stage of all.

City were always favourites, but when we have a fully fit first eleven we're good enough to beat anyone.

Unfortunately injuries are biting hard. Wanyama out so long is really hurting us and Dembele is gradually slipping into the periphery. Clearly not the player he was.

Kane is not right and hasn't been since the Liverpool game. Those factors have cost us.

We needed some luck on the injury front to keep in there, we havn't had it.

To say it was never possible is wrong.
This! Injuries are biting hard, and we simply don’t have the squad resources that oil money can buy, but injury free, we're a whole different team. Fielding a clearly-hobbled Kane and a half-hobbled Alli against Arsenal was a gift to them. Wanyama out, Winks and Dembele struggling for fitness; we’re forced to have Sissoko as a regular these days. Toby out, Rose still getting up to speed.

Truth is, everyone’s playing catch up to City, and they’re all failing. We’re struggling right now due to injuries and rehab from injuries. We’re set up well enough to give anyone a game otherwise, including City, but we can’t deal with Kane going down like they can with losing any multiples of Aguero, De Bruyne, Jesus, Mendy, Silva etc.,

We just need to regroup, get our key players back to fitness, get top 4 and maybe snag the FA Cup, both of which we’re very capable of doing as much as any of our other rivals. We’re still in the CL, and can even rest some players against Dortmund. That would have been unimaginable when we originally got the group draw with Real and Dortmund.
 

tttcowan

Well-Known Member
Aug 12, 2005
2,792
3,295
Problem is, and I'm normally an optimist. I can see our league form slipping now.

Poch and the club as whole want the title or the champions league. With the carrot gone I wonder whether they'll be able to really dig in.

I know we'd like an FA Cup and League cup or Europa but that's never been the priority for the club I don't think. We'll see, I think they're going to go all in for the champions league myself.

To be fair I respect the ambition. If we're all genuinely honest the only thing we can do on the pitch that might allow us to keep certain players long term and therefore give us the chance to keep progressing is a champions league or a title.

1 seems gone. And I'm not sure how many of those title chases from behind the current squad would have in them now after the previous 2. All in for the champions league seems to make sense.
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
14,566
19,651
Problem is, and I'm normally an optimist. I can see our league form slipping now.

Poch and the club as whole want the title or the champions league. With the carrot gone I wonder whether they'll be able to really dig in.

I know we'd like an FA Cup and League cup or Europa but that's never been the priority for the club I don't think. We'll see, I think they're going to go all in for the champions league myself.

To be fair I respect the ambition. If we're all genuinely honest the only thing we can do on the pitch that might allow us to keep certain players long term and therefore give us the chance to keep progressing is a champions league or a title.

1 seems gone. And I'm not sure how many of those title chases from behind the current squad would have in them now after the previous 2. All in for the champions league seems to make sense.

Realistically speaking neither the EPL or the CL was ever on for us we don't have the depth of quality in the squad nor the mentality yet, what is realistic is top four and maybe a cup run.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
54,773
99,336
Problem is, and I'm normally an optimist. I can see our league form slipping now.

Poch and the club as whole want the title or the champions league. With the carrot gone I wonder whether they'll be able to really dig in.

I know we'd like an FA Cup and League cup or Europa but that's never been the priority for the club I don't think. We'll see, I think they're going to go all in for the champions league myself.

To be fair I respect the ambition. If we're all genuinely honest the only thing we can do on the pitch that might allow us to keep certain players long term and therefore give us the chance to keep progressing is a champions league or a title.

1 seems gone. And I'm not sure how many of those title chases from behind the current squad would have in them now after the previous 2. All in for the champions league seems to make sense.

Don't think Poch will let the league slip mate, top four will very much be one of his, and Levy's, baseline objectives.
 

Bobbins

SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
May 5, 2005
21,548
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We have a very friendly run of fixtures between now and the end of January, with only City of any real strength to play in the league, so I expect us to go on a good run, pick up lots of points and get back involved at the top of the table.

I also expect this to result in all the usual suspects coming out with the usual "See you should've kept the faith/believed in Poch/never doubted us/stopped moaning/don't kneejerk" etc that we always get during a good run. The same crowd that blow their top the moment you dare to question if we're quite as good as the media hype us up to be and shut down any dissent with a barrage of negs, rolling eyes emotes and pictures of knees jerking.

The final thing I expect is for us to fail to get the wins we need when it really matters (the big sides, away from home), and for us to fall a long way short of the title. I haven't got a problem with that end result - to expect us to compete for the title against this opposition is ridiculous. But that's exactly why I am annoyed we sacked off the League Cup and will almost certainly get frustrated when we do the same thing with the FA Cup.
 

Streetspur77

Happy Clapper
Jul 20, 2017
2,792
9,404
So (position by position, and assuming everyone's healthy) you would take the majority of their players over our players?

I wasn't talking about quality, just shear cost. We're better than them player for player and overall and I still think we'll finish above them.
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
14,566
19,651
Don't think Poch will let the league slip mate, top four will very much be one of his, and Levy's, baseline objectives.

If poch and the team get top four this year with all the Wembley fiasco I think that would represent better achievemnt than last year.
 

ohtottenham!

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2013
7,497
13,029
We have a very friendly run of fixtures between now and the end of January, with only City of any real strength to play in the league, so I expect us to go on a good run, pick up lots of points and get back involved at the top of the table.

I also expect this to result in all the usual suspects coming out with the usual "See you should've kept the faith/believed in Poch/never doubted us/stopped moaning/don't kneejerk" etc that we always get during a good run. The same crowd that blow their top the moment you dare to question if we're quite as good as the media hype us up to be and shut down any dissent with a barrage of negs, rolling eyes emotes and pictures of knees jerking.

The final thing I expect is for us to fail to get the wins we need when it really matters (the big sides, away from home), and for us to fall a long way short of the title. I haven't got a problem with that end result - to expect us to compete for the title against this opposition is ridiculous. But that's exactly why I am annoyed we sacked off the League Cup and will almost certainly get frustrated when we do the same thing with the FA Cup.
Look at the drain on our squad resources from competing in the PL and CL. Look at our injury list, and the health and fitness of the team we put out yesterday in a NLD! We have to manage the squad and playing time somewhere. League Cup/Carabou deal doesn't mean much to me.
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
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19,651
Look at the drain on our squad resources from competing in the PL and CL. Look at our injury list, and the health and fitness of the team we put out yesterday in a NLD! We have to manage the squad and playing time somewhere. League Cup/Carabou deal doesn't mean much to me.

But it's our best chance of success unless we draw any of the top six away and then we would be fucked.
 

ohtottenham!

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2013
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But it's our best chance of success unless we draw any of the top six away and then we would be fucked.
If we put our resources into winning a League Cup, we risk those resources in other areas, like trying to get top 4 or going further in the CL. I just don't think a League Cup's worth it.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
But it's our best chance of success unless we draw any of the top six away and then we would be fucked.

It's not at all and people really need to stop this nonsense because there's not a shred of evidence to suggest that we'd be able to life that cup easily.

The League cup in the last 4 years have been won by Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea and Man City which suggests that the bigger sides are now taking the competition seriously. As always cups are a complete lottery and if those teams tend to find themselves in the latter rounds of the competition they start to play stronger sides. We're no different to our rivals in that respect, when we reached the final in 2015 the sides we put out got stronger towards the latter stages. What's more is that the League Cup is a hindrance to your season because the games come in the middle of the week when everyone else is resting, unless you're a team with a multi million pound squad and can have very good players earning big bucks play a bit part role who can come in for the odd cup game then it's always going to be difficult to maintain form in the cup, the league and the CL/EL!

If anything the FA Cup is probably the 'easiest' cup to win because those matches don't interfere with league match weeks (unless the game is replayed) but again you need a bit of luck with the draw to have a successful cup run like we got last season until we played Chelsea.
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
14,566
19,651
It's not at all and people really need to stop this nonsense because there's not a shred of evidence to suggest that we'd be able to life that cup easily.

The League cup in the last 4 years have been won by Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea and Man City which suggests that the bigger sides are now taking the competition seriously. As always cups are a complete lottery and if those teams tend to find themselves in the latter rounds of the competition they start to play stronger sides. We're no different to our rivals in that respect, when we reached the final in 2015 the sides we put out got stronger towards the latter stages. What's more is that the League Cup is a hindrance to your season because the games come in the middle of the week when everyone else is resting, unless you're a team with a multi million pound squad and can have very good players earning big bucks play a bit part role who can come in for the odd cup game then it's always going to be difficult to maintain form in the cup, the league and the CL/EL!

If anything the FA Cup is probably the 'easiest' cup to win because those matches don't interfere with league match weeks (unless the game is replayed) but again you need a bit of luck with the draw to have a successful cup run like we got last season until we played Chelsea.
You have to start somewhere though because EPL and CL are not on for the likes of us, but possibly with a bit of luck like you said we could go far although as last year showed again semi-final is our limit.
It must seems that if we target a cup we are wrong but at the same time what is the point of going after what we have no chance of winning.
The club is trying to move forward amongst big hitters which is hard enough considering the finances the others are working with.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
You have to start somewhere though because EPL and CL are not on for the likes of us, but possibly with a bit of luck like you said we could go far although as last year showed again semi-final is our limit.
It must seems that if we target a cup we are wrong but at the same time what is the point of going after what we have no chance of winning.
The club is trying to move forward amongst big hitters which is hard enough considering the finances the others are working with.

You do realise that he last 4 EL Cups have been won by teams with bigger budgets than us don't you? The CL is a cup knockout comp just like the FA and League cup you need some luck from the draw, to say we have no chance in that is just silly. The league I will give you but in the last two season we have shown we are good enough to challenge and if it wasn't for going up against two teams who weren't playing Euro football we would have won 1 of them IMO.

My point is that I don't understand why people keep peddling the myth about the League Cup, it's seems that people are so frigging desperate to push some bullshit false media narrative that Spurs fans are actually starting to believe it now.
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
14,566
19,651
You do realise that he last 4 EL Cups have been won by teams with bigger budgets than us don't you? The CL is a cup knockout comp just like the FA and League cup you need some luck from the draw, to say we have no chance in that is just silly. The league I will give you but in the last two season we have shown we are good enough to challenge and if it wasn't for going up against two teams who weren't playing Euro football we would have won 1 of them IMO.

My point is that I don't understand why people keep peddling the myth about the League Cup, it's seems that people are so frigging desperate to push some bullshit false media narrative that Spurs fans are actually starting to believe it now.

To say that we would of won a title if one of the teams who did win it had no Euro football is also a bit of a myth, in chelseas case then win leagues whether their in Europe or not and Leicester were a one off.
Both of whom were out in front with no realistic chance of catching them,and on both occasions and in time honoued tradition we blew up at the last anyway which is standard.
And in regards to this year again we will not challenge we have one team who are head and shoulders above the rest, and in Chelsea and Utd teams with greater depth and resources than us so if we finish fourth we have done well.
I said on here before and when the season started that I felt top four would possibly be beyond us this year and I maintain that stance due in part to the Wembley situation etc.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
To say that we would of won a title if one of the teams who did win it had no Euro football is also a bit of a myth, in chelseas case then win leagues whether their in Europe or not and Leicester were a one off.
Both of whom were out in front with no realistic chance of catching them,and on both occasions and in time honoued tradition we blew up at the last anyway which is standard.
And in regards to this year again we will not challenge we have one team who are head and shoulders above the rest, and in Chelsea and Utd teams with greater depth and resources than us so if we finish fourth we have done well.
I said on here before and when the season started that I felt top four would possibly be beyond us this year and I maintain that stance due in part to the Wembley situation etc.

We're not talking about other season's re Chelsea, we're talking about last season, Conte even admitted that they would have struggled last season if they were playing in the CL and not really sure what a 'one off' is meant to mean in regards to Leicester either...
 
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