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The Rugby Thread

E17yid

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Jan 21, 2013
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So I've now caught up with the highlights and news from some of the other Internationals this weekend.

Ireland - Good win for a young team against a very good Fiji team. Showing that they've got strength in depth which will be crucial in the World Cup build up.

Wales - Showing exactly the opposite, they have very little strength in depth in many positions. Good to see them nicely manipulating the rules around substitutes to help them hang on though rather than being on the wrong end of it as they were against France.

Scotland - Played very well and were so close to a win, but that really could be their motto in recent years. World class from Beauden Barrett again to stop that Hogg break, but New Zealand are there for the taking at the moment.

You what, how can we play more debutants than Ireland , against a better side than Fiji and winning by more points but Ireland show great depth and we show the opposite.
 

werty

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You what, how can we play more debutants than Ireland , against a better side than Fiji and winning by more points but Ireland show great depth and we show the opposite.
Fiji are a better side than Georgia.
 

E17yid

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Fiji are a better side than Georgia.

I take it you’re not aware that Georgia beat Fiji, in Fiji, last year?

This is the same Fiji that lost to Italy last week, one of the worst Italian sides in years.
 

talkshowhost86

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See above. I take it you weren’t aware either. Did you see Italy beating them last week too?

Yes Italy beat them, and so they bloody should.

Having said that (and I'm only saying this because you've already gone back further than this year to prove your point), this year Fiji have beaten Italy, Scotland, Tonga and Samoa. I don't think Georgia would be able to go on a run like that.

Anyway...away from the petty squabbling over the relative merits of Georgia v Fiji, do you really think Wales have much depth?
 

werty

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I take it you’re not aware that Georgia beat Fiji, in Fiji, last year?

This is the same Fiji that lost to Italy last week, one of the worst Italian sides in years.
Ireland beat New Zealand easily last year. Doesn't make us better than them. Italy beat South Africa last year. Same thing. Fiji are ranked 10th while Georgia are 12th, and are closer to Wales in terms of ranking points than they are to Georgia.
 

E17yid

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Yes Italy beat them, and so they bloody should.

Having said that (and I'm only saying this because you've already gone back further than this year to prove your point), this year Fiji have beaten Italy, Scotland, Tonga and Samoa. I don't think Georgia would be able to go on a run like that.

Anyway...away from the petty squabbling over the relative merits of Georgia v Fiji, do you really think Wales have much depth?

I went back then as it’s not long ago and it’s not like these sides play each other every year is it. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to bring up the result of the last time they played each other, no? I’d take your point if it was years ago.

We’ve got really good depth in some areas and not so great in others as with most teams.
 

E17yid

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Ireland beat New Zealand easily last year. Doesn't make us better than them. Italy beat South Africa last year. Same thing. Fiji are ranked 10th while Georgia are 12th, and are closer to Wales in terms of ranking points than they are to Georgia.

This is a fair point and I certainly wouldn’t dismiss your point out of hand but, imo, if Georgia played Fiji 10 times in the next year they’d beat them more than they’d lose though I’m not saying there’s a huge gulf in quality between the 2 teams.

At the end of the day they stopped Fiji from scoring any tries last year, in Fiji, no mean feet.

Personally I think Georgia are the most impressive emerging nation in the world.
 

E17yid

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Yes Italy beat them, and so they bloody should.

Having said that (and I'm only saying this because you've already gone back further than this year to prove your point), this year Fiji have beaten Italy, Scotland, Tonga and Samoa. I don't think Georgia would be able to go on a run like that.

Anyway...away from the petty squabbling over the relative merits of Georgia v Fiji, do you really think Wales have much depth?

Also, you do realise Georgia went on that unbeaten run last year beating Samoa and Tonga (in their own back yard)
 

talkshowhost86

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I went back then as it’s not long ago and it’s not like these sides play each other every year is it. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to bring up the result of the last time they played each other, no? I’d take your point if it was years ago.

We’ve got really good depth in some areas and not so great in others as with most teams.

Just looking into this in a bit more detail...not one of the players who played in that Fiji side that lost to Georgia seemed to be in the starting XV against Ireland...so I don't think it's going out on a limb to suggest that maybe it wasn't Fiji's strongest side against Georgia (albeit I also cannot testify to the strength of the Georgia team from that game).

Also, you do realise Georgia went on that unbeaten run last year beating Samoa and Tonga (in their own back yard)

The Tonga game was apparently in a neutral venue (sounds awesome). The Samoa one was in Tblisi (not Samoa's back yard) and much more recently Georgia lost to Romania.

Etc etc.

Fiji are almost certainly the stronger team, though you'd have to expect that trend to change in the coming years with the way Georgian rugby is going compared to the rabble in charge of Fiji.

And none of it changes the relative lack of strength in depth when looking at Wales and Ireland.

On the plus side, at least most of the Welsh first XV have had a week off whereas the All Blacks are at the end of an absolutely grueling two years of rugby. I don't think it'll be enough for Wales to get a result, but it might stop it being an absolute gubbing.

That's if they don't pick up any more mysterious bench based injuries of course :cautious::censored:
 

E17yid

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Just looking into this in a bit more detail...not one of the players who played in that Fiji side that lost to Georgia seemed to be in the starting XV against Ireland...so I don't think it's going out on a limb to suggest that maybe it wasn't Fiji's strongest side against Georgia (albeit I also cannot testify to the strength of the Georgia team from that game).



The Tonga game was apparently in a neutral venue (sounds awesome). The Samoa one was in Tblisi (not Samoa's back yard) and much more recently Georgia lost to Romania.

Etc etc.

Fiji are almost certainly the stronger team, though you'd have to expect that trend to change in the coming years with the way Georgian rugby is going compared to the rabble in charge of Fiji.

And none of it changes the relative lack of strength in depth when looking at Wales and Ireland.

On the plus side, at least most of the Welsh first XV have had a week off whereas the All Blacks are at the end of an absolutely grueling two years of rugby. I don't think it'll be enough for Wales to get a result, but it might stop it being an absolute gubbing.

That's if they don't pick up any more mysterious bench based injuries of course :cautious::censored:

There you go with that word again, clearly. How can you say that when Fiji got done in their own back yard the last time they played. They’re clearly (my turn) on a par with each other but my opinion is that Georgia are better.

Mate, most of our starting 15 are injured.
 

talkshowhost86

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There you go with that word again, clearly. How can you say that when Fiji got done in their own back yard the last time they played. They’re clearly (my turn) on a par with each other but my opinion is that Georgia are better.

Mate, most of our starting 15 are injured.

The Fiji B team got done in their own back yard.

And on doing a bit more research it looked a relatively similar Georgia team to the one that played Wales.

So going on all other results and the World Rankings it seems pretty clear that one victory against the Fiji B team doesn't make Georgia better than them overall.

Also Georgia just lost to the Wales B team...;)
 

E17yid

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The Fiji B team got done in their own back yard.

And on doing a bit more research it looked a relatively similar Georgia team to the one that played Wales.

So going on all other results and the World Rankings it seems pretty clear that one victory against the Fiji B team doesn't make Georgia better than them overall.

Also Georgia just lost to the Wales B team...;)

Seeing as you never knew about this result you’ll forgive me for not putting much weight in your opinion on this matter.

Like most times in here you’re just trolling, realised you were talking out of your arse in order to get a response (like yesterday) and have quickly backtracked.
 

talkshowhost86

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Seeing as you never knew about this result you’ll forgive me for not putting much weight in your opinion on this matter.

Like most times in here you’re just trolling, realised you were talking out of your arse in order to get a response (like yesterday) and have quickly backtracked.

In 5 minutes I quite easily showed that result meant nothing so I wouldn’t crow too much about knowing about it first :D Far from backtracking I believe it more than before whilst you’re ignoring it completely.

Also I’m not trolling. You just literally can’t accept a word of criticism against Wales. Which is a shame because they’ve been fairly tosh this year.

Not mentioning the exciting approach to substitutions either I see?
 

E17yid

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In 5 minutes I quite easily showed that result meant nothing so I wouldn’t crow too much about knowing about it first :D Far from backtracking I believe it more than before whilst you’re ignoring it completely.

Also I’m not trolling. You just literally can’t accept a word of criticism against Wales. Which is a shame because they’ve been fairly tosh this year.

Not mentioning the exciting approach to substitutions either I see?

Christ, You can be hard work sometimes.

This stupid thing started with you, yet again, being sloppy, probably deliberately, with your language.

To hail Ireland’s far from convincing win, against a side who, most people would agree as being very much in the same league as Fiji, as a great show of their depth and was a great result blah blah but then in the next sentence lambast Wales’ Win (by more points and with an even shitter team) and says it somehow shows the opposite is just ridiculous.

Ireland were far from convincing, but they beat a solid outfit while playing a lot of kids so it’s an ok result I wouldn’t say it’s anymore than that. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable opinion. I wouldn’t say the Welsh result was any better than meh, even with the team we had and if you wanted to slaughter us for a range of things varying from individual players, to our tactics, to the overall manner of our play I probably would end up agreeing with you as you as there was a lot about Saturday that was not good from a Welsh perpesctive.

I’m always open to criticising Wales and areas where we lack. I’ll call BS where I see it and that’s obviously where we differ coz you come out with a lot of it but I’m sure you think the same of me. Though a lot of shit you’ve said recently would be fine with a few words altered here and there.
 

talkshowhost86

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Christ, You can be hard work sometimes.

This stupid thing started with you, yet again, being sloppy, probably deliberately, with your language.

To hail Ireland’s far from convincing win, against a side who, most people would agree as being very much in the same league as Fiji, as a great show of their depth and was a great result blah blah but then in the next sentence lambast Wales’ Win (by more points and with an even shitter team) and says it somehow shows the opposite is just ridiculous.

Ireland were far from convincing, but they beat a solid outfit while playing a lot of kids so it’s an ok result I wouldn’t say it’s anymore than that. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable opinion. I wouldn’t say the Welsh result was any better than meh, even with the team we had and if you wanted to slaughter us for a range of things varying from individual players, to our tactics, to the overall manner of our play I probably would end up agreeing with you as you as there was a lot about Saturday that was not good from a Welsh perpesctive.

I’m always open to criticising Wales and areas where we lack. I’ll call BS where I see it and that’s obviously where we differ coz you come out with a lot of it but I’m sure you think the same of me. Though a lot of shit you’ve said recently would be fine with a few words altered here and there.

I know you think I have some anti-Welsh agenda but it really is just you taking it personally because you see any criticism of the rugby team as an attack on the country (for some reason).

My opinion is Fiji are a better team than Georgia (backed up by the last 12 months of results), and that Ireland's performance was much more impressive in general. Wales had to rely on bringing on the likes of Faletau and Biggar, plus some borderline cheating, to get the win. Ireland controlled much of the game (17-3 up at one point I think) and then just switched off, and but for a couple of missed conversions would have been out of sight. Even then they had the strength to come back and get the win, whereas Wales seemed to stutter for the entire game.

If you choose to take that opinion personally that's fine. But for the record it's not meant that way.
 

E17yid

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Jan 21, 2013
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I know you think I have some anti-Welsh agenda but it really is just you taking it personally because you see any criticism of the rugby team as an attack on the country (for some reason).

My opinion is Fiji are a better team than Georgia (backed up by the last 12 months of results), and that Ireland's performance was much more impressive in general. Wales had to rely on bringing on the likes of Faletau and Biggar, plus some borderline cheating, to get the win. Ireland controlled much of the game (17-3 up at one point I think) and then just switched off, and but for a couple of missed conversions would have been out of sight. Even then they had the strength to come back and get the win, whereas Wales seemed to stutter for the entire game.

If you choose to take that opinion personally that's fine. But for the record it's not meant that way.

But you didn’t talk about the performance, did you. You said, good result for Ireland, the opposite for Wales. You also mentioned the depth thing which I didn’t fully get as we played a really weak team.

You also said Fiji are clearly better, which is clearly BS. Who is better is certainly debateable but there’s nothing in it.
 

talkshowhost86

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But you didn’t talk about the performance, did you. You said, good result for Ireland, the opposite for Wales. You also mentioned the depth thing which I didn’t fully get as we played a really weak team.

You also said Fiji are clearly better, which is clearly BS. Who is better is certainly debateable but there’s nothing in it.

Well I still maintain Fiji are clearly better. And the stats show there's a fair bit in it. That's why I think it's a better result for an inexperienced Ireland team than the result was for an inexperience Welsh team. And yes the performance was better from Ireland as well.

But away from that...is your argument that Wales have good strength in depth because they played a weak team?

Also, and you've avoided this issue up till now...were you proud of Wales' actions at the end of that game?
 
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