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E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
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Well I still maintain Fiji are clearly better. And the stats show there's a fair bit in it. That's why I think it's a better result for an inexperienced Ireland team than the result was for an inexperience Welsh team. And yes the performance was better from Ireland as well.

But away from that...is your argument that Wales have good strength in depth because they played a weak team?

Also, and you've avoided this issue up till now...were you proud of Wales' actions at the end of that game?

The stats don’t show they are clearly better, though, this is in your head. Especially considering the last time they played Georgia beat them in their own patch.

It was an average result for Ireland. An acetage result for wakes. Ireland’s performance was better though as wales essentially left 3-4 tries out on the pitch and were generally a bit of a mess but there weee positives too.

I’ve avoided it as it’s hard to comment without knowing what went on. The timing is suspicious and if they weren’t injured then it’s not in the spirit of the game, especially as Georgia really deserved something out of it but I can’t have a go as for all I know the cramp might have been genuine.

My argument has always been we have good depth in some areas but lack in others so it’s pretty silly to just say we have poor depth without elaborating.
 

talkshowhost86

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Oct 2, 2004
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The stats don’t show they are clearly better, though, this is in your head. Especially considering the last time they played Georgia beat them in their own patch.

The world ranking score is in my head?

The better results against better teams this year are in my head?

Also why are you ignoring the point that the team Georgia beat was a Fijian ghost 15? Not sure why (Olympics maybe?) but unless Fiji have changed their entire 23 since that game then I think it's fair to say that result was an anomaly.

If we're accepting that result as proof of anything then we also need to accept that Wales are only a dodgy bit of substitute manipulation away from being better than Georgia, because that Wales team resembled the first team only slightly more.

But I'm assuming you wouldn't agree with that (and neither would anyone).

As for the dodgyness at the end, I think everyone can see that for what it was (including Martyn Williams and Adam Jones incidentally). The guys were warming up about 3 minutes before they suddenly had an attack of cramp (it must be very contagious).

I'd be genuinely interested to see what Howley has to say about it. He was very pious about it when the French did the same thing in the six nations, so I wonder if he simply had to sit by and accept a decision he didn't like from Gatland.

Either way it's not a Welsh issue, they just happen to be in the limelight for it this week. It's clearly a big gap in the laws of the game that has now been exploited a couple of times this season. Just disappointing to see it being exploited that way in a sport that is supposed to be known for its more gentlemanly approach generally.

That said I know that Eddie Jones would do it in a heartbeat!
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
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The world ranking score is in my head?

The better results against better teams this year are in my head?

Also why are you ignoring the point that the team Georgia beat was a Fijian ghost 15? Not sure why (Olympics maybe?) but unless Fiji have changed their entire 23 since that game then I think it's fair to say that result was an anomaly.

If we're accepting that result as proof of anything then we also need to accept that Wales are only a dodgy bit of substitute manipulation away from being better than Georgia, because that Wales team resembled the first team only slightly more.

But I'm assuming you wouldn't agree with that (and neither would anyone).

As for the dodgyness at the end, I think everyone can see that for what it was (including Martyn Williams and Adam Jones incidentally). The guys were warming up about 3 minutes before they suddenly had an attack of cramp (it must be very contagious).

I'd be genuinely interested to see what Howley has to say about it. He was very pious about it when the French did the same thing in the six nations, so I wonder if he simply had to sit by and accept a decision he didn't like from Gatland.

Either way it's not a Welsh issue, they just happen to be in the limelight for it this week. It's clearly a big gap in the laws of the game that has now been exploited a couple of times this season. Just disappointing to see it being exploited that way in a sport that is supposed to be known for its more gentlemanly approach generally.

That said I know that Eddie Jones would do it in a heartbeat!

I don’t put to much weight into the world rankings, I put slightly more weight into the rugby ones the football one for sure but head to heads are the best indicator but you need a lot of them to definitively say either way which isn’t going to happen.

Even if, for arguments sake, I say the world rankings are 100% spit on then it just proves that your Fiji/japans and Georgias are all in the same league so when you applaud one team results against one of those sides as good but another as terrible that’s what I take issue with. Though the manner of our display was poor.

Like I say, it’s extremely coincidental and it’s something I’d never actively support (unless it was against England of course;- ) but you’re right when you say that pretty much any coach in the world would do the same if in the same situation.
 

Arnoldtoo

The thinking ape's ape
May 18, 2006
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England team v Samoa

England: Brown; May, Slade, Lozowski, Daly; Ford (C), Care; Genge, George, Cole; Launchbury, Ewels; Itoje, Robshaw (C), Simmonds

Replacements: Hartley, Marler, Williams, Isiekwe, Lawes, Youngs, Francis, Rokoduguni.

Interesting!
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
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England team v Samoa

England: Brown; May, Slade, Lozowski, Daly; Ford (C), Care; Genge, George, Cole; Launchbury, Ewels; Itoje, Robshaw (C), Simmonds

Replacements: Hartley, Marler, Williams, Isiekwe, Lawes, Youngs, Francis, Rokoduguni.

Interesting!

With that back line I suspect Mike Brown will be doing a lot of defensive work on Saturday!

I'm actually not sure why he's playing Brown but he's released Watson. Surely a game in better conditions would give us a better idea of what Watson can achieve at full-back (he wasn't great last weekend but the conditions didn't really allow for a flowing backs game), plus with Brown coming off a head injury it would have made sense to rest him.

I'm particularly aggrieved as Eddie has basically released all the Bath players ahead of their game with Quins this weekend, whilst all of our players are in the squad meaning we go into that game with 28 players injured or unavailable.

Anyway...away from my club prejudices...I hope we have a good first half which allows us to get some of the players off the bench on early, particularly Isiekwe and Francis.

And away from England, whilst I'll certainly be supporting Wales this weekend, a large chunk of that back line is very inexperienced at this top top level, and that front 5 looks like it'll be outclassed (not exactly a criticism when we're talking about the All-Blacks though). However as I said earlier this week, the All Blacks will be knackered, and even the Welsh players who played against Georgia didn't seem to be playing at full pelt so Wales should be more rested....they couldn't could they?
 

WorcesterTHFC

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2016
1,777
2,545
England team v Samoa

England: Brown; May, Slade, Lozowski, Daly; Ford (C), Care; Genge, George, Cole; Launchbury, Ewels; Itoje, Robshaw (C), Simmonds

Replacements: Hartley, Marler, Williams, Isiekwe, Lawes, Youngs, Francis, Rokoduguni.

Interesting!

Now the team needs three players named Dennis, Waterman and McCann.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
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He's a) been resting players who went with the Lions along with b) assessing options and trying to build squad depth. Obviously never going to be 100% consistent within this - Dan Cole for instance is being flogged every week and hasn't been offering too much in any case (though Sinckler being out doesn't help I guess) - but this series of games has basically been a training exercise.

I count five second rows in the 23 though, which is interesting... At some point we are almost certainly going to see something like 4. Launchbury 5. Ewels/Isiekwe 6. Lawes 8. Itoje!
 

talkshowhost86

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Oct 2, 2004
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Is the game on Sky this weekend? If so we can look forward to another 80 minutes hissy-fit from Barnes about Robshaw playing 7.
 

talkshowhost86

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Oct 2, 2004
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Ragged old performance from England again today. Elliot Daly is pure class though.

Wales doing excellently so far.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
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Ragged old performance from England again today. Elliot Daly is pure class though.

Wales doing excellently so far.

We’re doing well in some areas but others are pretty poor. Lucky NZ aren’t on it though I fully expect them to step up a gear or 3 2nd half.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
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This current NZ team doesn't have any control, so if you can keep it tight you force mistakes. The legendary team(s) played in the right areas and at the right times. These guys do some wonderful stuff and when it clicks it's awesome, but you cant always play so fast and loose and they lack a bit of direction.
 

DaiT

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2011
374
698
We’re doing well in some areas but others are pretty poor. Lucky NZ aren’t on it though I fully expect them to step up a gear or 3 2nd half.
What is the team like for SA. Dont recognise many names. Is it worth me getting up at 3.30 am to watch?
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
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What is the team like for SA. Dont recognise many names. Is it worth me getting up at 3.30 am to watch?

To say we’re down to the bare bones is an understatement. We’re talking 4th/5th/6th choice in some positions.

Should be an interesting game, though. I can’t say I’m optimistic of a win and expect a 10 plus point loss but your never know, I suppose.

Navidi has been good so will be interesting to see if he kicks on. In fact our back row is t to bad but even then you’re talking Navidi (an unknown at international level till a few weeks ago) and Shingler (who I rate but he’s 30/31 and hasnt played in donkeys) and Faletau who Bath have generously let us have for one more week if we didn’t have Tobi at 8 we’d be proper fucked but we kinda already are.

Still, other than Navidi we’ve got the emergence of Steff Evans at this level to watch and Amos too who I’ve always liked and is playing well at the moment. Patchell on the bench who I hope gets some decent minutes.
 

DaiT

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2011
374
698
To say we’re down to the bare bones is an understatement. We’re talking 4th/5th/6th choice in some positions.

Should be an interesting game, though. I can’t say I’m optimistic of a win and expect a 10 plus point loss but your never know, I suppose.

Navidi has been good so will be interesting to see if he kicks on. In fact our back row is t to bad but even then you’re talking Navidi (an unknown at international level till a few weeks ago) and Shingler (who I rate but he’s 30/31 and hasnt played in donkeys) and Faletau who Bath have generously let us have for one more week if we didn’t have Tobi at 8 we’d be proper fucked but we kinda already are.

Still, other than Navidi we’ve got the emergence of Steff Evans at this level to watch and Amos too who I’ve always liked and is playing well at the moment. Patchell on the bench who I hope gets some decent minutes.
Navidi looks promising. Good Welsh name that.

What is Parkes like?
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
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Navidi looks promising. Good Welsh name that.

What is Parkes like?

Haven’t seen much of Parkes, tbh. Looks ok when I’ve seen him. Tomorrow will be a good test to see where he’s at. Only qualified via residency yesterday and straight in the starting 15 lol.
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
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Oct 2, 2004
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Why do Wales insist on doing this 4th test? Seems a bit daft and just creates a lot of club v country issues.

I think Bath will get fined now, for example, which just seems ridiculous.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
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Why do Wales insist on doing this 4th test? Seems a bit daft and just creates a lot of club v country issues.

I think Bath will get fined now, for example, which just seems ridiculous.

Yeah I think the RFU said a few days ago they’ll be charging Bath.

We do it coz we’re broke, innit. Gotta keep that money rolling in.
 

Arnoldtoo

The thinking ape's ape
May 18, 2006
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Good game - Quins v. Sarries. A pity it all hinged in the end on a ludicrous 'high tackle' penalty.
 
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