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Some Player stats / Alli

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Alli

PLEASE IGNORE SON STATS - CL POSTED IN ERROR

I'm going to copy @JimmyG2 inhere because I know he's a lover of stats, and it continues on from the Alli discussion in the ratings thread:

We were discussing Ali's form and contribution, some goal/assist stats were posted so I thought I'd delve just a smidgen deeper to get a slightly fuller picture.

Taking Kane out, here are our most productive, in terms of goal/assist, with some extra stats chucked in:

Screen Shot 2017-11-23 at 11.15.29.png


Screen Shot 2017-11-23 at 11.24.00.png



Alli is making nearly one assist every ten games. Not great. Alli is producing a goal/assist roughly every three games. Eriksen just under one every other game. Trippier and Davies are currently averaging a goal/assist every other game and Son, despite no assist is averaging just over a goal every other game.

Eriksen and Davies are making the most key passes and creating the most chances, with Tripper and Alli making a similar amount.

I've chucked in some basic "total pass" stats just to get a feel for how much these particular players are also contributing to general game play.

Trippier and Eriksen are seeing nearly double the ball that Alli does, Davies about 30% more, Son 30% less.


These were Alli's stats last season:

Screen Shot 2017-11-23 at 11.42.39.png




I haven't included the passing stat, but it was marginally more last season (38 per 90). The stats show that Alli is certainly not as productive, in pure goals/assists. Goals and assists are both a little more than 50% down.

Stats taken from here (http://www.oulala.com/en/community/blog/item/dele-alli-ball-control) also show that Alli has the most unsuccessful touches in the league so far this season (26) and is the second most dispossessed (21).

At the moment, in terms of pure goal/assist numbers, and lets be honest here, this is the thing that is often used as validation for a lot of the less than great contribution that he often offers, he is sitting in the company of players like Doucoure, Murray, Chicarito, Okazaki, and is currently less productive than many of the usual suspects from ManC and Manu (DeBruyne, Silva, Martial etc) but also less luminaries such as Abraham, Ramsey, Salah, Sterling, Azpilacueta, Gross, Shaquiri, Rashford, Mahrez, Chipo-Moting.

But the evidence is that though his assists and goals are down by 50%, his key passes and chances created are up by 20%.

Form dips can happen. I remember three/four years ago doing one of these for Eriksen and he'd just stopped assisting for no apparent reason. But at that time he was at least scoring more or maybe it was the other way round, I can't remember.
 
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EmperorKabir

SC's Resident Legend
Dec 8, 2004
5,278
846
As somebody who follows the NFL and has an educational background in stats, I know how they can be so easily massaged.

Is it not fair to mention that Dele is marked very heavily? Let's exaggurate it, let's say a player is immensely good and gets marked by 2 people for the whole of the game. Their contribution then becomes that their team is playing as 10 men and the opposition is playing as 9, but their personal stats will be absolutely woeful. Always be careful with stats.

Having said all that, I do think Dele has looked incredibly lethargic for almost all of 2017 but still turns up with moments of brilliance now and then. It might be a positional shift, it might be fatigue, it might be psychological issues given his family stuff is in the press now, but I really am not sure why it is. He is still young though.
 

EmperorKabir

SC's Resident Legend
Dec 8, 2004
5,278
846
and also our system has our fullbacks way more on the ball than people like Alli. The comparison with Eriksen is closer though admittedly, but they are again different types of players.
 

walton

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2006
3,189
5,018
Hot off the press from OPTA:

Number of SC users called Bus-Conductor who hate Dele Alli: 1
and also our system has our fullbacks way more on the ball than people like Alli. The comparison with Eriksen is closer though admittedly, but they are again different types of players.

Away with your informed nuance! The stats tell us he's useless, godammit!
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
Thanks.
I only said I love the boy.
Not that he was the World's best player
or even Spurs best player.
He's beyond stats.
It's the romantic in me
but you don't use stats to prove you love your wife, or girlfriend.
though no doubt vital statistics come into it somewhere.
Let it rest.
You know what they say about proving something on paper.
 

ERO

The artist f.k.a Steffen Freund - Mentalist ****
Jun 8, 2003
5,914
5,266
I haven't included the passing stat, but it was marginally more last season (38 per 90). The stats seem to suggest that Alli is certainly not as productive, and not just in pure goals/assists, but all areas of his game are below the bar set last season. Goals and assists are both a little more than 50% down, key passes and chances created are around 25% down. And he's attempting, and making, slightly fewer passes.

Key passes and chances created are surely up this season?
 

OPModric

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2010
1,104
2,449
Great post Bus-Conductor. I can once again contribute with this one. The stats from last season PL.

Skärmklipp.JPG
 

The Apprentice

Charles Big Potatoes
Mar 10, 2005
11,145
15,632
The best comparison is Son and Alli. Effectively the same type of player in our formation. Auxilliary striker, pretty wasteful but capable of sublime magic.
 

Streetspur77

Happy Clapper
Jul 20, 2017
2,792
9,404
Alli

I'm going to copy @JimmyG2 inhere because I know he's a lover of stats, and it continues on from the Alli discussion in the ratings thread:

We were discussing Ali's form and contribution, some goal/assist stats were posted so I thought I'd delve just a smidgen deeper to get a slightly fuller picture.

Taking Kane out, here are our most productive, in terms of goal/assist, with some extra stats chucked in:

View attachment 34223

View attachment 34224


When it comes to goals/assists combined Alli is half as prolific pm on pitch as Son. Alli is making nearly one assist every ten games. Not great. Alli is producing a goal/assist roughly every three games, Eriksen just under one every other game. Trippier and Davies are currently averaging a goal/assist every other game and Son, despite no assist is averaging just over a goal every other game.

Eriksen and Davies are making the most key passes and creating the most chances, with Tripper and Alli making a similar amount.

I've chucked in some basic "total pass" stats just to get a feel for how much these particular players are also contributing to general game play.

Trippier and Eriksen are seeing nearly double the ball that Alli does, Davies about 30% more, Son 30% less.


These were Alli's stats last season:

View attachment 34225



I haven't included the passing stat, but it was marginally more last season (38 per 90). The stats seem to suggest that Alli is certainly not as productive, and not just in pure goals/assists, but all areas of his game are below the bar set last season. Goals and assists are both a little more than 50% down, key passes and chances created are around 25% down. And he's attempting, and making, slightly fewer passes.

Stats taken from here (http://www.oulala.com/en/community/blog/item/dele-alli-ball-control) also show that Alli has the most unsuccessful touches in the league so far this season (26) and is the second most dispossessed (21).

At the moment, in terms of pure goal/assist numbers, and lets be honest here, this is the thing that is often used as validation for a lot of the less than great contribution that he often offers, he is sitting in the company of players like Doucoure, Murray, Chicarito, Okazaki, and is currently less productive than many of the usual suspects from ManC and Manu (DeBruyne, Silva, Martial etc) but also less luminaries such as Abraham, Ramsey, Salah, Sterling, Azpilacueta, Gross, Shaquiri, Rashford, Mahrez, Chipo-Moting.

Form dips can happen. I remember three/four years ago doing one of these for Eriksen and he'd just stopped assisting for no apparent reason. But at that time he was at least scoring more. In Alli's case this year, all performance indicators are down.

Was there a reason you used Son's champions league stats or was it just that if you used his prem stats it wouldn't stack up nearly as badly for Alli?

IMG_0318.PNG
 

Kiedis

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2013
2,926
8,490
The best comparison is Son and Alli. Effectively the same type of player in our formation. Auxilliary striker, pretty wasteful but capable of sublime magic.

The difference being that Alli showed against Liverpool (imo one of his very best games for us ever) that he still have the ability to play as a no. 8, and do "midfield stuff" at a very high level. It's a role where he'll be more involved, and probably less inclined to make every other touch a low percentage Hollywood pass or a (failed) nutmeg.
 
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The Apprentice

Charles Big Potatoes
Mar 10, 2005
11,145
15,632
The difference being that Son showed against Liverpool (imo one of his very best games for us ever) that he still have the ability to play as a no. 8, and do "midfield stuff" at a very high level. It's a role where he'll be more involved, and probably less inclined to make every other touch a low percentage Hollywood pass or a (failed) nutmeg.

Son is incapable of doing midfield stuff and is not a viable option as an 8.
 

Spurs' Pipe Dreams

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2011
20,008
32,728
He's young, form is temporary, class is permanent. You do not score that belter against Palace and then score 20 goals the season after if you're not class. His running has been good this season but the balls either haven't come or have come up short. Saying that he probably may need a rest at some point and is still far from the finished article
 

Ron Burgundy

SC Supporter
Jun 19, 2008
7,736
23,410
Sure;y that doesn't include Champions league? Also, he's playing deeper in some instances

He's in a bit of dip, for sure, but there's light at the end of the tunnel
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Sorry guys. Didn't realise I'd posted Son's CL stats and once posted I can't insert new screen grabs of the correct stats. Also @ERO you are correct, and I have amended the piece accordingly.
 
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Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
As somebody who follows the NFL and has an educational background in stats, I know how they can be so easily massaged.

Is it not fair to mention that Dele is marked very heavily? Let's exaggurate it, let's say a player is immensely good and gets marked by 2 people for the whole of the game. Their contribution then becomes that their team is playing as 10 men and the opposition is playing as 9, but their personal stats will be absolutely woeful. Always be careful with stats.

Having said all that, I do think Dele has looked incredibly lethargic for almost all of 2017 but still turns up with moments of brilliance now and then. It might be a positional shift, it might be fatigue, it might be psychological issues given his family stuff is in the press now, but I really am not sure why it is. He is still young though.

It might be fair if a) it were true and b) Alli was marked any more heavily than Kane or Eriksen. or any other very good forward player for a top team.

I agree with your last paragraph, which was why I tried to see if the stats supported it. They do, very much in terms of goal/assist productivity, but not in terms of key passes and chances created.

and also our system has our fullbacks way more on the ball than people like Alli. The comparison with Eriksen is closer though admittedly, but they are again different types of players.

Agreed, I just posted them for context. Such as "is Alli seeing producing less in terms of goals/assists, but contributing more in terms of game play and involvement in build up etc. Or as best I could with very raw date.

Was there a reason you used Son's champions league stats or was it just that if you used his prem stats it wouldn't stack up nearly as badly for Alli?

View attachment 34227

No, it was a fuck up, Squawka just defaulted to his CL stats when I selected his name, for some reason ? Thanks for posting the correct stats.
 
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Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,149
38,348
son plays well, son stays in team, son plays bad, son dropped.

alli plays well, alli stays in team, alli plays bad, alli stays in team.

i don't have a problem with alli but i do have an issue with how he gets favourable treatment over son who is no less productive or no less influential to this team. both bring tangible output and both can be wasteful. alli brings strength and aggression, son brings pace and dynamism ... yet one is treated like a prince and the other a pauper.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Thanks.
I only said I love the boy.
Not that he was the World's best player
or even Spurs best player.
He's beyond stats.
It's the romantic in me
but you don't use stats to prove you love your wife, or girlfriend.
though no doubt vital statistics come into it somewhere.
Let it rest.
You know what they say about proving something on paper.


Love is blind JG.

(I only tagged you in because I was going to post in in the ratings thread where we were discussing Alli (you and I).
 
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