How much of it can we keep together?

It will never get better than this.

If offered £200m for dele + eriksen would I take it ? I’d be sorely tempted. Yes it would be a risk but they are certainly not irreplaceable there’s a pretty long list in PL I’d take over them right now. Salah mane sane de Bruyne martial hazard Sanchez. Obviously these players aren’t obtainable. But my point is if you know where to look there’s probably better out there. For me both are just too inconsistent.

Yiddo1982 said:

But these are the players that aren't winning anything. We aren't talking about a one man team where a superstar is dragging along a bunch of cloggers.

Who, this season, honestly deserves a move to Real Madrid or Barca? Honestly? Kane and maybe Vertonghen. The rest have underperformed for the most part.

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Is that because they are sulking though?

Losing players is bad as the new ones, however good, will take time to get up to speed. Next season in the new stadium we need to hit the ground running.

Massive, genuine investment in players and wages is the only thing that can keep us in the top 4 long term. Tinkering round the edges and sell-to-buy are not going to suffice in the long run.
So the ball is once again in Levy's court. Does he want us to be a hare or a hound?

Even when we were doing ok I was raising concerns on here about why our players hadnt been rewarded for last season yet. Levy's waited too long and now we are seeing a drop off in effort.

I think the damage is done with certain players, Dier, Rose and Alli wont be here next season. A blow but not irriplacable

If we want to act and rescue what we've built WE MUST secure Kane, Toby and Eriksen on bumper new deals. These are the players we just have to keep and build our new pay structure around.

SUIYHA said:

It's not about what they "deserve". This isn't a straight meritocracy. Did Sissoko "deserve" his move to play for us in the Champions League after being shit for Newcastle for years and getting relegated with them? It's about whether a bigger club feels that that player is the one to take them forward. And if it's a big enough club that comes calling, I'd expect every single one of our players to want to go. Yes, even Kane.

Ferguson cashed in on a lot of players when he felt they'd lost focus, or were disrupting team spirit. Van Nistelrooy, Beckham, Stam, Kanchelskis, Ince...even Ronaldo. Wenger too, even in his early years when they were more successful, the trophies weren't enough to keep Overmars, Petit, Anelka. Even when they'd just gone the season unbeaten, Real came in for Vieira, their captain and tried to get him all summer, and even though he eventually stayed he was much worse the following year and eventually ended up being sold to Juventus. When we move to the new WHL and increase our revenue streams then we can pay higher wages and mitigate the risk a little, but there will always be times when we have to accept losing players. It's about how we plan for it and react to it that's important.

It's hard to predict who will come in for who. Mesut Ozil is still at Arsenal because he was shite for the last 18 months - if he'd been playing like he has been this season then he'd have had bids in the summer instead of waiting for the bosman. If Eriksen and Alli play the second half of this season like they did in the second half of last season then I expect teams will be sniffing around, especially Eriksen.

The one I'm really surprised to still be here is Lloris. He's a high profile player as the French international captain, and if you think back to when we were getting spanked 4-0 in every big game under Sherwood or AVB, and in the inconsistency of Poch's first season before Kane broke through, he must have been wondering what the fuck he was doing here. Glad that he stuck it out, obviously, but was that because he's loyal or because nobody actually tried to buy him?

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Very simple why Lloris is still here, Pochettino.

Pretty sure he's spoken about his relationship with Poch quite a few times.

coys200 said:

If offered £200m for dele + eriksen would I take it ? I’d be sorely tempted. Yes it would be a risk but they are certainly not irreplaceable there’s a pretty long list in PL I’d take over them right now. Salah mane sane de Bruyne martial hazard Sanchez. Obviously these players aren’t obtainable. But my point is if you know where to look there’s probably better out there. For me both are just too inconsistent.

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That's easy to say now though to be honest when they're both playing shit, in which of course they look very replaceable. This is not their normal level of performance though. Prior to this spell Eriksen has been consistently good for a while.

I still think not adding players of an already high quality and stature doesn't help. I know it's the easy thing to say every transfer window, but it's much more encouraging for the current players to see that we're still competing well in that regard. Not only that but it keeps our attacking options fresh too. We need to show in recruitment that we mean business also, or these £200,000 a week contract offers that whatever team would be offering some of these players them are gonna look a lot more appealing.

SUIYHA said:

It's not about what they "deserve". This isn't a straight meritocracy. Did Sissoko "deserve" his move to play for us in the Champions League after being shit for Newcastle for years and getting relegated with them? It's about whether a bigger club feels that that player is the one to take them forward. And if it's a big enough club that comes calling, I'd expect every single one of our players to want to go. Yes, even Kane.

Ferguson cashed in on a lot of players when he felt they'd lost focus, or were disrupting team spirit. Van Nistelrooy, Beckham, Stam, Kanchelskis, Ince...even Ronaldo. Wenger too, even in his early years when they were more successful, the trophies weren't enough to keep Overmars, Petit, Anelka. Even when they'd just gone the season unbeaten, Real came in for Vieira, their captain and tried to get him all summer, and even though he eventually stayed he was much worse the following year and eventually ended up being sold to Juventus. When we move to the new WHL and increase our revenue streams then we can pay higher wages and mitigate the risk a little, but there will always be times when we have to accept losing players. It's about how we plan for it and react to it that's important.

It's hard to predict who will come in for who. Mesut Ozil is still at Arsenal because he was shite for the last 18 months - if he'd been playing like he has been this season then he'd have had bids in the summer instead of waiting for the bosman. If Eriksen and Alli play the second half of this season like they did in the second half of last season then I expect teams will be sniffing around, especially Eriksen.

The one I'm really surprised to still be here is Lloris. He's a high profile player as the French international captain, and if you think back to when we were getting spanked 4-0 in every big game under Sherwood or AVB, and in the inconsistency of Poch's first season before Kane broke through, he must have been wondering what the fuck he was doing here. Glad that he stuck it out, obviously, but was that because he's loyal or because nobody actually tried to buy him?

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Had the pleasure of meeting Hugo about 3 weeks ago at a private gathering so had the chance of a low key chat with him. He just doesn’t seem driven by the money. Seems incredibly honourable. He has so bought into the Spurs project. Loves playing in this team and says the dynamic amongst the players is great. Adores Poch and I believe that goes a long way to deciding whether he stays or not. He’s not flashy at all. The modern footballer doesn’t impress him. I think his wife is very settled in London too.

Therefore keeping Poch, Hugo and Kane will go some way to continuing our upward trajectory.

Those that don’t believe in working with the above 3 can clear off as far as I’m concerned.

Hoddle&Waddle said:

Even when we were doing ok I was raising concerns on here about why our players hadnt been rewarded for last season yet. Levy's waited too long and now we are seeing a drop off in effort.

I think the damage is done with certain players, Dier, Rose and Alli wont be here next season. A blow but not irriplacable

If we want to act and rescue what we've built WE MUST secure Kane, Toby and Eriksen on bumper new deals. These are the players we just have to keep and build our new pay structure around.

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I know that people point out that the contracts probably include generous bonuses but let's face it, it's all about the weekly wage. I am pretty sure that players in our nearest rival's teams probably also get bonuses on top of their (generally) higher wages. Obviously my heart bleeds for all these players on weekly wages that exceed most of our yearly wages but that's the reality of modern football.

Things are going poorly, but I don't think its crisis time just yet.

Last season's success was built in a big way on Wanyama and Dembele bossing the other 19 midfields around the park.

Its difficult that Vic has been injured for months, and it looks like Dembele just doesn't have the body for it anymore. Winks has been excellent, but I also don't think he's the answer to our prayers just yet. He still needs another season to feel his way around and build his confidence - as Modric did when he first broke through for us. Once he does come good and has the confidence to really own games at PL level - watch out.

Three players (at least) had their heads turned over summer: Walker, Rose, Dier.

Walker was allowed to go for what seemed like a top fee before PSG ruined the market for everyone and Barcelona hammered in the nail. It turns out that money is now a worthless way to measure a player's value, if that makes sense. Players like Ousmane Dembele and Mbappe went for £150m, and Barca wanted to pay the same amount for Coutinho. A player who has been terrific for Liverpool and in the PL, but hardly world class in the mould of PL stars from years gone by like Bale and Suarez.

Rose was never going to be let go of after Walker left, we were never going to sell both. He was also injured and kept getting setbacks. I think he spoke to the Sun the day before the season started in a desperate plee to either leave than or get a pay rise in time for a swift exit in 12 months time. I don't believe a word of his or Poch's. I'd be surprised if they were talking at all away from the training pitch, which is a shame considering Rose was essentially teacher's pet.

Dier was one we kept under wraps. We told United to rack off, and they did thanks to Poch and Mourinho apparently having some semblance of respect for each other from their time in Spain. Or maybe it was just that they signed Matic. The only reason we found out he wanted to go was that Poch and Ballague decided to publish it. And then release it as a preview to the Mail before hand. That's on them, because it was all over publicly before than.

There's also something going on with Alderweireld. I don't think he wants to leave; its easy to forget how bad he was for Atletico, and that he was on loan at mid-table Soton before coming here. He's world class, and I think his agent is pushing him to be paid what he's worth. We better do it.

If memory serves, Alli started last season as badly as this one and kicked into gear in December. Lets just see how he goes before we stick the boot in. The understanding he and Kane have together is our biggest weapon when teams sit back, but he's out of form.

Eriksen and Kane look tired. Vertonghen having another good season. Son has started slowly, but needs more playing time. Sissoko contributes, but is absolutely nowhere near the pace in my opinion.

Our signings were a mixed bag too. Sanchez has been really good. I think there's a slight language barrier there which is affecting his relationship with Lloris in particular, but he's been terrific and plays like King.

I know Llorente hasn't had many opportunities, but the ones that come past him he needs to score. Why was he ever at Swansea after so long at Bilbao and Juve? Its almost as if he thought he was done, he bounced back at Swansea, and is now actually finished.

Aurier is the big one for me. Walker is a level above he and Trippier on exposed form this season. He does some good things, but commits ridiculous fouls and often loses the ball in key positions. One of Walker's strengths was his ability to make up for his mistakes in our own box, and Aurier hasn't shown that yet. He's never played in England before, so I'm expecting him to significantly improve. Trippier's been okay, but he needs to realise that he's in the side as a wing back and his crossing is subpar.

On the left, Davies has picked a bad time to lose form. Rose isn't applying the manic pressure he did last season - he chased every single ball from corner flag to corner flag on the left side. Maybe its his injury, maybe its that he clearly wants out. Probably both. All of a sudden, Davies is playing like he did when he first arrived and Rose is out the door. Where do we look for a top four quality LB?

On a brighter note, Lamela looked very good yesterday. Hopefully he provides more of the same going forward.

All we need is a few players to click into gear and a couple of 3 and 4 nil wins for this to all go away. But I don't like how our players have started throwing their hands up and pointing when someone sprays a pass. Pochettino stamped that rubbish out, and it shouldn't be allowed to creep back in.

I think we'll be fine and will finish 3rd or 4th reasonably comfortably. But it won't just happen. No more 3 at the back while Wanyama and Alderweireld are out. Dier - who is in shit form anyway - can't cover both. Poch needs to get smarter, and help our guys pull their socks up. I've never been more confident in a Spurs manager than I am in him, and am intrigued as to where we go from here.

ajspurs said:

That's easy to say now though to be honest when they're both playing shit, in which of course they look very replaceable. This is not their normal level of performance though. Prior to this spell Eriksen has been consistently good for a while.

I still think not adding players of an already high quality and stature doesn't help. I know it's the easy thing to say every transfer window, but it's much more encouraging for the current players to see that we're still competing well in that regard. Not only that but it keeps our attacking options fresh too. We need to show in recruitment that we mean business also, or these £200,000 a week contract offers that whatever team would be offering some of these players them are gonna look a lot more appealing.

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There's certainly no getting away from the reality that better players are generally on higher wages. Obviously better players will be more likely to prioritise clubs that consistently win silverware but if they can see that a club has ambition (even if they don't have the silverware to back it up yet) and said club is willing to back up the transfer fee with higher wages then they are going to be more likely to want to sign. If success is akin to an exclusive members club then we are hovering around the entrance, we've got ourselves all kitted out in the right gear but we are baulking at the membership fee.

lukespurs7 said:

This is what I worry about more than anything and reading his book and looking at his press conferences his mood seems
To change a great deal. I just hope him squeezing every last drop out of the players doesn’t result in him just giving up eventually and moving to an ‘easier’ job where he’s more likely to win things say PSG etc.

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That’s my fear - why bother struggling every day of every season trying to make a dent on the top clubs and failing to win anything, when you could go to PSG/United/Madrid and simply buy instant success with realistically no limits on the money you can spend and the players you can attract?

“Because it means more to win something with Spurs” will only keep you trying for so long.

I expect Poch and Kane to be around to give us one season in the new stadium before they’re gone. Eriksen and Alli I can see going in the summer though.

Everlasting Seconds said:

It will never get better than this.

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Are you Harry Redknapp?

SambaSpurs said:

Sorry OP but do you seriously consider United as having won 3 trophies last year?!

The community shield is not a trophy I'm sorry, it features 2 teams in total and is essentially just an extension of pre season.

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Tbf I'd have taken just the measly two last season...

This season we should go guns blazing for the FA Cup. Getting a trophy on board would be a huge step for the players and the club.

We have enough quality in our team to get top four and have a good Champion League run - a draw against West Brom and a game we should have won at Leicester does not change that.

That would represent a good campaign in a season which was already perceived to be difficult as we are at Wembley.

I understand the negative thoughts, but let's try and stay positive, as we can still make up ground against our rivals, and let's not forget that we are actually a better team than most of them.

McArchibald said:

So the ball is once again in Levy's court. Does he want us to be a hare or a hound?

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Seeing as he's got no hare I'm not sure that's the best way of putting it

For me selling Walker was the catalyst. Our players see him more than likely winning a trophy and earning more so if this season ends up with no CL I fear a mass exodus.
On the positive side there is plenty to play for and if we can just put a good run together we can still make top 4.

spurs-r-us said:

Things are going poorly, but I don't think its crisis time just yet.

Last season's success was built in a big way on Wanyama and Dembele bossing the other 19 midfields around the park.

Its difficult that Vic has been injured for months, and it looks like Dembele just doesn't have the body for it anymore. Winks has been excellent, but I also don't think he's the answer to our prayers just yet. He still needs another season to feel his way around and build his confidence - as Modric did when he first broke through for us. Once he does come good and has the confidence to really own games at PL level - watch out.

Three players (at least) had their heads turned over summer: Walker, Rose, Dier.

Walker was allowed to go for what seemed like a top fee before PSG ruined the market for everyone and Barcelona hammered in the nail. It turns out that money is now a worthless way to measure a player's value, if that makes sense. Players like Ousmane Dembele and Mbappe went for £150m, and Barca wanted to pay the same amount for Coutinho. A player who has been terrific for Liverpool and in the PL, but hardly world class in the mould of PL stars from years gone by like Bale and Suarez.

Rose was never going to be let go of after Walker left, we were never going to sell both. He was also injured and kept getting setbacks. I think he spoke to the Sun the day before the season started in a desperate plee to either leave than or get a pay rise in time for a swift exit in 12 months time. I don't believe a word of his or Poch's. I'd be surprised if they were talking at all away from the training pitch, which is a shame considering Rose was essentially teacher's pet.

Dier was one we kept under wraps. We told United to rack off, and they did thanks to Poch and Mourinho apparently having some semblance of respect for each other from their time in Spain. Or maybe it was just that they signed Matic. The only reason we found out he wanted to go was that Poch and Ballague decided to publish it. And then release it as a preview to the Mail before hand. That's on them, because it was all over publicly before than.

There's also something going on with Alderweireld. I don't think he wants to leave; its easy to forget how bad he was for Atletico, and that he was on loan at mid-table Soton before coming here. He's world class, and I think his agent is pushing him to be paid what he's worth. We better do it.

If memory serves, Alli started last season as badly as this one and kicked into gear in December. Lets just see how he goes before we stick the boot in. The understanding he and Kane have together is our biggest weapon when teams sit back, but he's out of form.

Eriksen and Kane look tired. Vertonghen having another good season. Son has started slowly, but needs more playing time. Sissoko contributes, but is absolutely nowhere near the pace in my opinion.

Our signings were a mixed bag too. Sanchez has been really good. I think there's a slight language barrier there which is affecting his relationship with Lloris in particular, but he's been terrific and plays like King.

I know Llorente hasn't had many opportunities, but the ones that come past him he needs to score. Why was he ever at Swansea after so long at Bilbao and Juve? Its almost as if he thought he was done, he bounced back at Swansea, and is now actually finished.

Aurier is the big one for me. Walker is a level above he and Trippier on exposed form this season. He does some good things, but commits ridiculous fouls and often loses the ball in key positions. One of Walker's strengths was his ability to make up for his mistakes in our own box, and Aurier hasn't shown that yet. He's never played in England before, so I'm expecting him to significantly improve. Trippier's been okay, but he needs to realise that he's in the side as a wing back and his crossing is subpar.

On the left, Davies has picked a bad time to lose form. Rose isn't applying the manic pressure he did last season - he chased every single ball from corner flag to corner flag on the left side. Maybe its his injury, maybe its that he clearly wants out. Probably both. All of a sudden, Davies is playing like he did when he first arrived and Rose is out the door. Where do we look for a top four quality LB?

On a brighter note, Lamela looked very good yesterday. Hopefully he provides more of the same going forward.

All we need is a few players to click into gear and a couple of 3 and 4 nil wins for this to all go away. But I don't like how our players have started throwing their hands up and pointing when someone sprays a pass. Pochettino stamped that rubbish out, and it shouldn't be allowed to creep back in.

I think we'll be fine and will finish 3rd or 4th reasonably comfortably. But it won't just happen. No more 3 at the back while Wanyama and Alderweireld are out. Dier - who is in shit form anyway - can't cover both. Poch needs to get smarter, and help our guys pull their socks up. I've never been more confident in a Spurs manager than I am in him, and am intrigued as to where we go from here.

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I enjoyed your post but your last paragraph was completely spot on, Im convinced its down to a combination of those 2 missing. The players aren't going to do it nowadays, it needs to come from the manager. Im reading his book now, and as long as he applies his thoughts in that, and the players aren't fed up of his methods, then he can turn this dip in form around.

anyone willing to pay whatever we'd ask for Alli and Eriksen is welcome to them, as far as I'm concerned. they're very good players on their day, but also both infuriatingly inconsistent. this idea that they could get into Barca and Real's teams is just laughable to me.

I've never once bought into the talk that our first team was so impossible to improve on, so for me most of these players are replaceable if they really want to move on. the problem is my lack of faith in a) them being replaced properly and b) the quality being added to rather than merely being being replaced. if I could be confident in that regard, then the likes of Rose, Dier, Eriksen, and Alli can leave if they wish.

Everlasting Seconds said:

It will never get better than this.

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Harry... is that you?