Overeaction!

tiger666 said:

We haven't won a trophy because our fans settle for mediocrity?

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You have taken one section of what I have said and taken it completely out of context, my point is that, if fans keeps making excuses every single time we hit a bad patch and the players pick up on that then they will think it's ok, they can sense how the supporters feel.

It's one of the reasons why I was surprised with the reaction people gave Danny Rose when he came back, by all means, don't boo the lad or give him stick but you know, singing his name and treating him like he had done nothing wrong was frankly pathetic and smacks of desperation from our supporters and this is coming from someone who defended Rose for his comments (I still think he was right in what he said but the way in which he did it was incredibly disrespectful to the club and supporters.)

We seem so desperate for success that we kiss the arse of players who aren't even giving their all for the club, Poch wouldn't do it, so I have no idea why our fans feel the need to.

It was the same with Adebayor, for some people he could have pulled his pants down and took a shit on the centre circle and they would have still made excuses for him.

This thread is rapidly heading toward gold status. I think two or three more hissyfits disguised as 'what is wrong sermons' rammed full of bollocks and we're there. I've done my part

Don't let me down.

Hazardousman said:

lol, I am not angry or depressed, you think that because I call out things when I see it? Because I am not in a constant happy clapper state and praise every single thing that happens and refuse to acknowledge when we have issues?

Of course the attitude of supporters has a bearing on things, there is a reason why the term "12th man" exists, the supporters at our club have been, for too long, happy with medicority.

The players sense when the fans are pissed off and they sense when they are happy, it makes a difference, you can be supportive of the team and criticise them without being an arsehole, I am not advocating for people to go into full on meltdown about how we are going to get relegated etc but I still think they have the right to voice their concerns, the problem is, some people think that being a supporter means ignoring every issue and blindly being happy or making excuses, I would say that makes a person a shit supporter and again, happy with mediocrity.

We have now had a period of fantastic success under Poch (albeit without any trophies yet) and the second we hit a bad time, instead of some fans voicing their concerns and wanting our team to do better and being vocal about their support, they sit back and say "Stop complaining, this is the best we have ever had it, just support the team!"

What they mean by "support the team" is, accept mediocrity and ignore issues or you are "negative" or as you say "angry and depressed" lol.

Do you think Poch sits around and tells the players behind the scenes "Don't worry lads, just keep playing the way you are and everything will fix itself, we have nothing whatsoever to improve upon and I refuse to say anything that is remotely negative about our performances because it might hurt your feelings and make me a shit manager."

No, he has bemoaned the lack of fight in recent weeks, but you know, if you say that on an internet forum or indicate we may have issues suddenly you become negative and can't find the positives in anything.

Some of you need to get your head out of the sand and out of your arses, it's ok to both be postive and negative, you do have a choice to embrace both you know, it's not one or the other.

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You do know 12th man is referring to fans at the games? Not keyboard warriors on Internet forums?...do you actually think that players or the coaching staff would waste their time reading the drivel that gets posted by the experts on here? Lol.

I'm not saying we don't have issues, we clearly do, I don't think anyone on this forum would say otherwise.
You said the fans need to have a winning mentality, and any fan that doesn't, doesn't deserve any success...that is complete and utter bollocks I'm afraid, the players and the coach need a winning mentality.

Gb160 said:

You do know 12th man is referring to fans at the games? Not keyboard warriors on Internet forums?...do you actually think that players or the coaching staff would waste their time reading the drivel that gets posted by the experts on here? Lol.

I'm not saying we don't have issues, we clearly do, I don't think anyone on this forum would say otherwise.
You said the fans need to have a winning mentality, and any fan that doesn't doesn't deserve any success...that is complete and utter bollocks I'm afraid, the players and the coach need a winning mentality.

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That's just a flatout lie and you know it, just like people on here exist that think every single loss will result in us going into a relegation fight there also exists people who refuse to admit anything is wrong, always making excuses and never believing we could have more serious issues than just a bit of bad form.

You would be surprised what the players read, a few years ago I seem to remember people saying players never read twitter and all their accounts are run by management companies, well that is not the case the majority of the time whatsoever, they see things, there is no doubt about it, I am not saying they are sat here reading through threads on SC (if they were they would have listened to me already and we would have won the league twice and the CL, trust me, I have done it on football manager, it's easy ) but they aren't as closed off as some people like to believe.

I think we all need a winning mentality, our club since Redknapp has become infested with prawn sandwich brigaders, happy to have a nice little day out and constantly talking about how great we are to everyone (despite the fact we have won nothing) and there is a reason we have become almost detested by rival supporters.

We have no right to be anywhere near challenging for a title with the level of funding we have, Poch has taken us way above where we should be and ahead of time as well and frankly, this team needs to be performing better because we already know what they are capable of, the fans should be demanding it of the players and holding them accountable, both at games and online until they fix the issue, Poch demands it of them and so should we, if the players even think for one second that the fans are happy to just make excuses then they will continue doing what they do.

People moan about Real Madrid supporters and how they are spoilt and constantly moan at the players but the reason they are that way is because they want success, we need to emulate that sort of atmosphere, instead of this "Ah well, spurs will always let you down so I don't know why I bother" or "This is the best we have ever had it, just shut up and support the team!" mentality.

Archibald&Crooks said:

This thread is rapidly heading toward gold status. I think two or three more hissyfits disguised as 'what is wrong sermons' rammed full of bollocks and we're there. I've done my part

Don't let me down.

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Rapidly heading? I think we're there.

Hazardousman said:

People moan about Real Madrid supporters and how they are spoilt and constantly moan at the players but the reason they are that way is because they want success, we need to emulate that sort of atmosphere, instead of this "Ah well, spurs will always let you down so I don't know why I bother" or "This is the best we have ever had it, just shut up and support the team!" mentality.

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It's not mate, it's got nothing to do with their fans, it's because they consistently have and buy some of the best players in the world, and tend to have a world class manager to train and direct them.
I can't help but feel you vastly overestimate the importance of supporters in the grand scheme of things, most of the crowd at the Bernabau are day tripping tourists, most of them don't even stand up and celebrate when they score.

Gb160 said:

It's not mate, it's got nothing to do with their fans, it's because they consistently have and buy some of the best players in the world, and tend to have a world class manager to train and direct them.
I can't help but feel you vastly overestimate the importance of supporters in the grand scheme of things, most of the crowd at the Bernabau are day tripping tourists, most of them don't even stand up and celebrate when they score.

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It is mainly down to that I agree, that plays a huge part but I still believe the fans play a huge role in the overall mentality of a club, look at Milwall and the entire attitude of that club, it's disgusting.

Same with Chelsea, the atmosphere the fans breathe into the club is often reflected on the pitch, Liverpool supporters have a victim mentality, I would say their players have shared that same mentality in the past because of the supporters.

Also, what I will say to that mate is that if that's the case, why do some people on this forum and at games become so upset with others sharing critical opinions on the team if ultimately it means nothing? Are they simply just moaning because they dislike hearing people complain or take issue with the team they support? If that is the case I would say it's more of a personal issue on behalf of them not being able to digest differing opinions.

I mean, I am with you on the fact that some people are overreactionary (both in a positive and a negative sense) and it can become annoying to read, at the same time, however, I expect it because, well, as Poch would say, this is football, people get emotional, they love their teams and they show their delight and disgust in different ways.

Some need to understand not everyone is going to remain completely positive or negative 100% of the time and not every criticism is a meltdown or someone overreacting, I see plenty of decent opinions both in a positive and negative sense being drowned out because others do not wish to entertain anything outside of their own idea of what being a good supporter is.

I am not sure what people expect of posters? Should everyone share the same opinion and should spurscommunity be a little safe space where only nice and positive opinions are allowed lest they are met with disgust?

I mean, we should expect people to kneejerk, we should expect both positive and negative criticisms of the team, my point is, we all support Spurs and we should all be pulling in the same direction and asking questions when things are going right and wrong.

Settling and just shrugging our shoulders is akin to just essentially admitting we serve no purpose even posting on this forum and we are all just sad fools shouting into cyberspace with our keyboards LOL.

Hazardousman said:

It is mainly down to that I agree, that plays a huge part but I still believe the fans play a huge role in the overall mentality of a club, look at Milwall and the entire attitude of that club, it's disgusting.

Same with Chelsea, the atmosphere the fans breathe into the club is often reflected on the pitch, Liverpool supporters have a victim mentality, I would say their players have shared that same mentality in the past because of the supporters.

Also, what I will say to that mate is that if that's the case, why do some people on this forum and at games become so upset with others sharing critical opinions on the team if ultimately it means nothing? Are they simply just moaning because they dislike hearing people complain or take issue with the team they support? If that is the case I would say it's more of a personal issue on behalf of them not being able to digest differing opinions.

I mean, I am with you on the fact that some people are overreactionary (both in a positive and a negative sense) and it can become annoying to read, at the same time, however, I expect it because, well, as Poch would say, this is football, people get emotional, they love their teams and they show their delight and disgust in different ways.

Some need to understand not everyone is going to remain completely positive or negative 100% of the time and not every criticism is a meltdown or someone overreacting, I see plenty of decent opinions both in a positive and negative sense being drowned out because others do not wish to entertain anything outside of their own idea of what being a good supporter is.

I am not sure what people expect of posters? Should everyone share the same opinion and should spurscommunity be a little safe space where only nice and positive opinions are allowed lest they are met with disgust?

I mean, we should expect people to kneejerk, we should expect both positive and negative criticisms of the team, my point is, we all support Spurs and we should all be pulling in the same direction and asking questions when things are going right and wrong.

Settling and just shrugging our shoulders is akin to just essentially admitting we serve no purpose even posting on this forum and we are all just sad fools shouting into cyberspace with our keyboards LOL.

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I don't have a problem with being critical, or sharing opinions on here...it'd be a pretty dull forum if that we're the case.
I fully expect people to knee jerk, that's just how some people are, both on here and probably in real life...but the entire purpose of this thread I think was to highlight some of this and put things into perspective, that things aren't really that bad when you look at the bigger picture.
That's not being a happy clapper or being deluded, that's just stepping back, taking a deep breath, and looking at things objectively...we have quite a few players out injured coinciding with our creative players lacking form.

As I said, things aren't great looking at the last few games, and I might start getting a bit more concerned if our results don't pick up soon.

Oh my god this thread.

Meltdown mode = ACTIVATED

Gb160 said:

I don't have a problem with being critical, or sharing opinions on here...it'd be a pretty dull forum if that we're the case.
I fully expect people to knee jerk, that's just how some people are, both on here and probably in real life...but the entire purpose of this thread I think was to highlight some of this and put things into perspective, that things aren't really that bad when you look at the bigger picture.
That's not being a happy clapper or being deluded, that's just stepping back, taking a deep breath, and looking at things objectively...we have quite a few players out injured coinciding with our creative players lacking form.

As I said, things aren't great looking at the last few games, and I might start getting a bit more concerned if our results don't pick up soon.

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I wasn't really referring to you in particular with the happy clapper comment, truth is I have no problem with people being positive or "happy clappers" what I do take issue with though is people, from either a positive or negative standpoint, trying to force others to conform to a sort of "group think" mentality.

Like you say, it would be a dull forum without a range of perspectives and whilst these perspectives might annoy us from time to time I think it's better we just all focus on what is important, the club and the football and all try and pull in one direction, irrespective of our individual opinions on things.

The truth is, I can only speak for myself, but in real life I am both optimistic and pessimistic, it's hard to get a judge for someone when they are just an avatar on the internet, I am pretty sure that most of us would probably get along well in person and a lot of what is said online is lost because you aren't physically in the room with that person.

I know we all like to picture someone screaming and shouting whilst typing on their keyboard or seeing someone sitting with a smug look on their face as they type but that's often not even the case, hell even my rants are normally me sitting here whilst being completely emotionless lol, half the time I don't even know why I bother writing what I write because when I log off I couldn't care less lol.

I guess this is the issue, we are all frustrated with spurs it's just some of us take a little longer to let go of that frustration after a game, games used to affect me for days and wind me up, sometimes they still do but it's rare now, most of the time once a game is ended I will have an hour or so where I am mildly annoyed and then I forget about it, the older I get, the less I care frankly.

I still love my club however and that will never change, even if I hate modern football I will always love Tottenham and will always want to see us succeed.

I think the problem currently is deeper than our injuries, I think it's a collective mentality problem and our players, because of the last two seasons and with how far City are ahead now and also seeing Walker go off and triple his pay whilst possibly winning a title in his first season away, they aren't giving their all or they might even feel that this project is all for nothing, when teams like City can just buy the league, hell, I feel that way so I wouldn't blame them for feeling like it either, especially with games like yesterday where it feels even the officials are doing their best to screw us.

Basically, I think for a few of them, their hearts aren't completely in it anymore, it might just be for now because of this current slump or it might be because a few of them just generally don't believe we can win anything, Walker said the same when he left, that we always fell short.

The CL is a different story because the players feel like we still stand a chance but in the PL there is almost an air of defeat around the team before we even kick a ball.

It's not a major issue when looking at the bigger picture because as long as Poch is here I think we will eventually have success and we are still in a great position as a club but it's still, what I believe, a worrying sign that this team might be just be in a bit of a slump that is more than just bad form or injuries.

The question is, will it improve? Or will it continue to get worse, if it's the latter then things could get really bad, really fast.

Today i have written to the FA pleading with them to change the points scoring in football as follows:

Win: 1 pt
Draw: 0 pt
Time Of Possession: 20 pts
Deserved To Win: 22 pts
Fans Whine The Most: 30 pts

I have worked this season's form out based on the new rules and we are top of the PL by 330 points.

coys200 said:

Liverpool- hugely reliant on Salah mane coutinho. Wouldn’t take any of their midfield or defenders. Maybe lallana.
Arsenal- hugely dependent on ozil Sanchez who are about to leave. Aging squad. Again wouldn’t take any of their midfield or defenders.
Chelsea- There’s a lot of like for like players between us you could debate. The obvious edge they have is hazard.
United- Think Pogba showed yesterday he is a difference maker. But again there’s not a huge amount in. However a rashford or martial would be just what we need.

I think the other top 6 would take 12-14 of our players as starters or squad players. For me there’s no need to panic. 2 or 3 players in attacking arrears could make a huge difference to the overall picture.

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To be fair most sides are reliant on their best 3 offensive players. Imagine us with no Kane, Alli or Eriksen. Would be ugly!

panoma said:

To be fair most sides are reliant on their best 3 offensive players. Imagine us with no Kane, Alli or Eriksen. Would be ugly!

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Been ugly with them in the last month

Was it Poch out after this last season?

DEFchenkOE said:

It's not really an overreaction though is it?

Not when this poor run of form has knocked us out the title race completely before December.

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For 30 years prior to 15/17 we were, in the eyes of everyone outside the club, ‘out of the title race’ before August. In my 40 years supporting Spurs we’ve three genuine shots st the title and two of those were in the last two seasons. Yes, we are having a patchy run which needs sorting out but perspective is required...

panoma said:

To be fair most sides are reliant on their best 3 offensive players. Imagine us with no Kane, Alli or Eriksen. Would be ugly!

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Yes but with our best defence unit out in normal circumstances we can nick a game with one goal. Liverpool need 2 or 3. We are much more of an all round squad than Liverpool and Arsenal imo.

Hoddle_Ledge said:

Was it Poch out after this last season?

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I remember feeling that our season was heading for a disappointment after that Chelsea game. I also remember us being very out of sorts, lacking rhythm in our play, struggling to create opportunities and conceding silly goals. Was very happy to have been wrong that time. Hoping for similar this time. Although the loss of Wanyama and Toby is going to he felt.

We used to have a bloated squad full of mediocre players. We’ve since got rid of the crap and built up one of the best young squads in the premier league. Last season we arguably had the best starting eleven in terms of cohesiveness, quality and promise for the future.

This season we’ve lost England’s number one right back with the number one left back having a long term injury and wanting to also leave. We’ve also lost our 2 best defensive players in Alderweireld and Wanyama for a number of months to injury.

In addition to this we’re playing against Europe’s elite in the Champions League and there’s an ‘expectation’ we’ll be a force to be reckoned with in the league too.

Injuries, losing key players (sold, wanting to leave, injuries) and big games pretty much twice a week prior/just after Christmas will put a major strain on most clubs.

However, we haven’t done ourselves any favours to mitigate these issues. We’ve moved to Wembley, which looks to be purely for economic and not footballing reasons. It’s no coincidence that playing on a massive pitch has led to injuries and players running on empty.

We were promised an organised transfer window (we never fall for that) but ended up with the standard fiasco. Sanchez is a very good signing but he wasn’t a necessity especially when you consider our tight budget and that we had the best defence last season. A replacement for Walker was imperative, granted we signed Aurier but at the end of the window, leaving him with no time to gel with the team. Surprise surprise he’s been pretty crap. Llorente spells panic buy and has also flopped. Sissoko, we apparently tried to flog but he stayed, has played and has generally been awful. As per usual we failed to add depth to the areas we lacked in, a central midfielder and a creative/wide forward.

It’s a very thin line and a highly risky game the club play. Last season everything went pretty much to plan but this summer we failed to add 1-2 quality/promising players and add a little bit of depth and now we’re paying the price for it.

TEESSIDE1 said:

We used to have a bloated squad full of mediocre players. We’ve since got rid of the crap and built up one of the best young squads in the premier league. Last season we arguably had the best starting eleven in terms of cohesiveness, quality and promise for the future.

This season we’ve lost England’s number one right back with the number one left back having a long term injury and wanting to also leave. We’ve also lost our 2 best defensive players in Alderweireld and Wanyama for a number of months to injury.

In addition to this we’re playing against Europe’s elite in the Champions League and there’s an ‘expectation’ we’ll be a force to be reckoned with in the league too.

Injuries, losing key players (sold, wanting to leave, injuries) and big games pretty twice a week prior/just after Christmas will put a major strain on most clubs.

However, we haven’t done ourselves any favours to mitigate these issues. We’ve moved to Wembley, which looks to be purely for economic and not footballing reasons. It’s no coincidence that playing on a massive pitch has led to injuries and players running on empty.

We were promised an organised transfer window (we never fall for that) but ended up with the standard fiasco. Sanchez is a very good signing but he wasn’t a necessity especially when you consider our tight budget and that we had the best defence last season. A replacement for Walker was imperative, granted we signed Aurier but at the end of the window, leaving him with no time to gel with the team. Surprise surprise he’s been pretty crap. Llorente spells panic buy and has also flopped. Sissoko, we apparently tried to flog but he stayed, has played and has generally been awful. As per usual we failed to add depth to the areas we lacked in, a central midfielder and a creative/wide forward.

It’s a very thin line and a highly risky game the club play. Last season everything went pretty much to plan but this summer we failed to add 1-2 quality/promising players and add a little bit of depth and now we’re paying the price for it.

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Was surprised so many thought we'd had a pretty good transfer window in the summer. Aurier always looked like he was going to be a liability with his sliding tackles and lack of end product and it's turned out to be the case. Llorente scored 15 goals - 7 of which with his head in a team that crosses the ball well from both wings - we don't do that. He offered nothing else before he came to us and doesn;t offer us anything now he's joined. No attacking reinforcements in the form of pace and trickery out wide. I can't for the life of me imagine what Poch was thinking. I CAN imagine what Levy was thinking. And that for me, is the problem. Year after year.

Soldado
Njie
Nkoudou
Janssen
Sissoko
Llorente

THFC, please scout players properly - and Levy - stop picking up shite on deadline day.

This thread has less presence than the Mary Celeste