The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

thefierycamel · Dec 2, 2017

Think it's time that some of these kids start to make the first team squad (not all at once but maybe one or two every week). We look as though we're out of ideas in attack and midfield and there are obviously some very talented blokes who i think could do a job, at least off the bench. They would also fill a few holes in the squad; i.e. fast wingers, good quick passers on either feet and tricky dribblers. Looking at sterling, edwards, bennetts, shashoua, skipp (probably still too young but then again TOB is in with a shout so why not), tanganga (given our defensive issues at present) and TOB (would have skipp ahead of him at the moment).

IGSpur · Dec 3, 2017

thefierycamel said:
Think it's time that some of these kids start to make the first team squad (not all at once but maybe one or two every week). We look as though we're out of ideas in attack and midfield and there are obviously some very talented blokes who i think could do a job, at least off the bench. They would also fill a few holes in the squad; i.e. fast wingers, good quick passers on either feet and tricky dribblers. Looking at sterling, edwards, bennetts, shashoua, skipp (probably still too young but then again TOB is in with a shout so why not), tanganga (given our defensive issues at present) and TOB (would have skipp ahead of him at the moment).

While obviously agree, it just isn't going to happen. Let's hope at least a couple get a chance on Wednesday and do well, and maybe put themselves in Poch's mind, though even if they do well, it's no guarantee it will get them a chance anyway *cough* KWP.

We will most likely just dip into the transfer market in January and sign some other random player before chancing our arm with the academy, when we're struggling. Though there is nothing to lose and everything to gain from it.

IGSpur · Dec 3, 2017

I reckon we're the only club to have actually gotten worse with their youth coverage. There was a time when we have Oduwa et al playing u18s we would get fairly regular highlights of the u18s PL matches. Other clubs showed live games and I think the THST asked the club to do more, which I think they said they would.

And in the last couple of years we don't even get highlights anymore. They've also been deleting things, I just check and there are only 2 videos from FAYC. And I reckon if we didn't score 10 goals they probably wouldn't have put that one up. It's a shame that we're having to rely on reports from fans who can go, televised games and other clubs or videos found by fans for anyone to get a look. I assume it's a conscious decision we can't be that negligent surely. I think the only times people have been able to watch are the UYL matches. If we're not in it next year, there will be nothing. Really poor

Blake Griffin · Dec 3, 2017

IGSpur said:
While obviously agree, it just isn't going to happen. Let's hope at least a couple get a chance on Wednesday and do well, and maybe put themselves in Poch's mind, though even if they do well, it's no guarantee it will get them a chance anyway *cough* KWP.

We will most likely just dip into the transfer market in January and sign some other random player before chancing our arm with the academy, when we're struggling. Though there is nothing to lose and everything to gain from it.

i hope so but i still don't expect to see any of the u19s involved. not because they have a "must win" game - against a team who have lost their two away games by a combined score of 15-0(plus even if we did somehow lose it's still quite likely we'd go through as group winners anyway), but because i just don't think poch considers any of those not training with the first team as part of his plans for this season. frustrating but what can you do ...

coys200 · Dec 3, 2017

IGSpur said:
While obviously agree, it just isn't going to happen. Let's hope at least a couple get a chance on Wednesday and do well, and maybe put themselves in Poch's mind, though even if they do well, it's no guarantee it will get them a chance anyway *cough* KWP.

We will most likely just dip into the transfer market in January and sign some other random player before chancing our arm with the academy, when we're struggling. Though there is nothing to lose and everything to gain from it.

The thing with seniors is, you can’t exactly say there’s s massive amount wrong that justifies throwing kids in. Defensively it’s the odd sloppy mistake. Not like we are leaking goals. And if KWP can’t even get a sniff you can’t exactly see any others. Poch still has foyth or Davies in a 3 if he wants to experiment. Offensively it’s hard to judge yesterday as half the game was 10 men. For me we looked comfortable and would most likely have won. Against Leicester we created loads just couldn’t finish. Yes I think we could do with a bit more pace. But none of our kids would obviously fit into that category . Plus you have Lamela coming back. Would you really throw in Edwards over Lamela dele Son etc seems very unlikely. The one possibility I wouldn’t mind seeing is sterling involved it’s hard to imagine he could offer less than Llorente.

Blake Griffin · Dec 3, 2017

marcus turned 19 today and still this is his only involvement in the first team -

https://twitter.com/NYSpurs/status/779011148624621568

imagine the disappointment in here had i said at the time that he wouldn't make another appearance for 15+ months. was reading back through the gillingham match thread the other day(because i'm weird) and there was so much excitement about edwards by the end of it but for various reasons it just hasn't happened for him.

IGSpur · Dec 3, 2017

coys200 said:
The thing with seniors is, you can’t exactly say there’s s massive amount wrong that justifies throwing kids in. Defensively it’s the odd sloppy mistake. Not like we are leaking goals. And if KWP can’t even get a sniff you can’t exactly see any others. Poch still has foyth or Davies in a 3 if he wants to experiment. Offensively it’s hard to judge yesterday as half the game was 10 men. For me we looked comfortable and would most likely have won. Against Leicester we created loads just couldn’t finish. Yes I think we could do with a bit more pace. But none of our kids would obviously fit into that category . Plus you have Lamela coming back. Would you really throw in Edwards over Lamela dele Son etc seems very unlikely. The one possibility I wouldn’t mind seeing is sterling involved it’s hard to imagine he could offer less than Llorente.

Don't really disagree with much there, I don't think we've been terrible at all, but we're clearly struggling for whatever reason, and in some bad form. A time like this it might be worth trying something different and finding a spark. Using a youth player can often do that and inspire or help pick things up. When you have one of the most talented players in England in your academy why not try them out. You know full well we will dip into the transfer market in Jan or summer to improve our attack which will show Poch thinks it can be improved. So why not try and see if we have the option with us now, rather than spend more money. I could maybe stomach buying an attacker if we actually go in and buy a quality established one but not if it is another 'under the radar' purchase.

Thing is though with Lamela back any chance of using an academy player to help out and experiment with our attack is gone as Lamela now needs time, so as I've said before I'm not optimistic even if some did get a chance on Wednesday and did well. But again all of the above and your point on KWP is exactly why I say that despite teh great summer England have had nothing will ever change. There will always be obstacles or reason to not give players a chance. It's great having Winks come through but one player out of loads of talent especially when that one player wasn't even the most talented tells me we, and other clubs are under utilising the academy system.

IGSpur · Dec 3, 2017

Blake Griffin said:
marcus turned 19 today and still this is his only involvement in the first team -

https://twitter.com/NYSpurs/status/779011148624621568

imagine the disappointment in here had i said at the time that he wouldn't make another appearance for 15+ months. was reading back through the gillingham match thread the other day(because i'm weird) and there was so much excitement about edwards by the end of it but for various reasons it just hasn't happened for him.

Crazy that arguably the most talented player we've produced, has played 10 mins for our first team at 19. I've read youth watchers from other clubs being excited about him since 15, and discussing how good he could be. I've ready people being grateful that this top player is at Spurs and not City or Chelsea as they believed he will be getting chances, and as you say for various reasons he's appeared less for us, than less talented and even younger players have for other top 6 teams.

ljinko888 · Dec 3, 2017

Van Gaal has a lot of flaws but his belief in youth was encouraging to see. He trims his squad down so when in times of injuries or bad form it's academy players he falls back to. He gives them a chance. Most only ever play a few games but the ones who catch the eye get rewarded by keeping their place.

This is what I mean when I want Poch to throw down the gauntlet. Molly-coddling in a training environment gets sterile after a while. Young players need games to improve and be motivated. If Edwards attitute is shit maybe it's because he's no further on from breaking through than 18 months ago. I'd be frustrated too.

IGSpur · Dec 3, 2017

ljinko888 said:
Van Gaal has a lot of flaws but his belief in youth was encouraging to see. He trims his squad down so when in times of injuries or bad form it's academy players he falls back to. He gives them a chance. Most only ever play a few games but the ones who catch the eye get rewarded by keeping their place.

This is what I mean when I want Poch to throw down the gauntlet. Molly-coddling in a training environment gets sterile after a while. Young players need games to improve and be motivated. If Edwards attitute is shit maybe it's because he's no further on from breaking through than 18 months ago. I'd be frustrated too.

100% agree with that. If you're never progressing or don't see progression, or you still find yourself playing at the same level with the same people despite showing that you're better than them for the last 10 years you're going to think what else do you need to do or get demotivated. It would happen to anyone.

I remember at the start of the 15/16 season when Oxford started and thinking Edwards must look at him and think he could do better elsewhere. Well Oxford is suffering from, the curse of PL and was the one jettisoned for West Ham doing poorly and still has so much more experience than Edwards. The England fan in me wishes he went abroad, the Spurs fan in me, doesn't really care as him staying or leaving isn't going to affect us regardless.

dondo · Dec 3, 2017

Blake Griffin said:
marcus turned 19 today and still this is his only involvement in the first team -

https://twitter.com/NYSpurs/status/779011148624621568

imagine the disappointment in here had i said at the time that he wouldn't make another appearance for 15+ months. was reading back through the gillingham match thread the other day(because i'm weird) and there was so much excitement about edwards by the end of it but for various reasons it just hasn't happened for him.

In pochettinos book he praises Edwards on his talents but hints he needs to work at his work rate and attitude

coys200 · Dec 3, 2017

Tbh I really don’t think we will buy an attacking option in January. I think depending on wanyama it may just be a CM,as it seems Gomes was nearly done. It’s a shame Sterling and TOB And Skipp aren’t another year on Or I think they would get a chance. Poch is pretty stubborn and I’ve a feeling he will persist with Llorente. The fact is apart from Edwards, you can’t really say anyone is massively knocking down the door for a chance.

Bus-Conductor · Dec 4, 2017

coys200 said:
The thing with seniors is, you can’t exactly say there’s s massive amount wrong that justifies throwing kids in. Defensively it’s the odd sloppy mistake. Not like we are leaking goals. And if KWP can’t even get a sniff you can’t exactly see any others. Poch still has foyth or Davies in a 3 if he wants to experiment. Offensively it’s hard to judge yesterday as half the game was 10 men. For me we looked comfortable and would most likely have won. Against Leicester we created loads just couldn’t finish. Yes I think we could do with a bit more pace. But none of our kids would obviously fit into that category . Plus you have Lamela coming back. Would you really throw in Edwards over Lamela dele Son etc seems very unlikely. The one possibility I wouldn’t mind seeing is sterling involved it’s hard to imagine he could offer less than Llorente.

Your argument falters a bit when we have to watch the likes of Sissoko trundling around doesn't it ? There have been games this season such as Barnsley and West Ham in the cup when Alli has played 90 mins, then you have league games against Swansea, Palace, West Brom, Leicester when we've not rested or rotated anyone, whilst playing major pressure CL games too.

And when those performances have seen us looking tired and pretty void of inspiration, you start to think what if one kid like Edwards or Shashoua had been put on the bench, Son or Nkoudou started and Alli rested completely, same Eriksen for a game here or there, and Kane, and I'd have rather seen Onomah played in midfield in the summer, and maybe we could be watching him getting ad hoc games and minutes now in CM instead of the woeful Sissoko. Even if Onomah bumbled about a bit, it would hardly make any difference to what we get with Sissoko. Same could be said for TOB.

And we could have saved ourselves 25m, continued to integrated KWP, and not been any worse off as a squad than we have been by buying Aurier, who needs as much educating and acclimatising as KWP does.

DCSPUR · Dec 4, 2017

Bus-Conductor said:
Your argument falters a bit when we have to watch the likes of Sissoko trundling around doesn't it ? There have been games this season such as Barnsley and West Ham in the cup when Alli has played 90 mins, then you have league games against Swansea, Palace, West Brom, Leicester when we've not rested or rotated anyone, whilst playing major pressure CL games too.

And when those performances have seen us looking tired and pretty void of inspiration, you start to think what if one kid like Edwards or Shashoua had been put on the bench, Son or Nkoudou started and Alli rested completely, same Eriksen for a game here or there, and Kane, and I'd have rather seen Onomah played in midfield in the summer, and maybe we could be watching him getting ad hoc games and minutes now in CM instead of the woeful Sissoko. Even if Onomah bumbled about a bit, it would hardly make any difference to what we get with Sissoko. Same could be said for TOB.

And we could have saved ourselves 25m, continued to integrated KWP, and not been any worse off as a squad than we have been by buying Aurier, who needs as much educating and acclimatising as KWP does.

My understanding was that Onomah wanted the loan @WindyCOYS, @IGSpur or someone else may be able to clarify....that has been the missed opportunity for me because I think of JO was here this season he'd be getting some playing time for certain.

WindyCOYS · Dec 4, 2017

DCSPUR said:
My understanding was that Onomah wanted the loan @WindyCOYS, @IGSpur or someone else may be able to clarify....that has been the missed opportunity for me because I think of JO was here this season he'd be getting some playing time for certain.

I’ve heard a few bits and bobs but it’s all second hand and I’m not sure what to believe so don’t want to speculate.

I’ve absolutely no doubt that Onomah would be more effective than Sissoko in a 3-man midfield.

blackburn · Dec 4, 2017

I'm all for giving youth a chance but we have to be realistic, the youngsters will be integrated with the first team in training, the coaching staff will see how they perform. Youngsters playing against youngsters is a million miles away from playing first team football. Unless they can cut it on the training ground no manager is going to risk them in games.

Blake Griffin · Dec 4, 2017

blackburn said:
I'm all for giving youth a chance but we have to be realistic, the youngsters will be integrated with the first team in training, the coaching staff will see how they perform. Youngsters playing against youngsters is a million miles away from playing first team football. Unless they can cut it on the training ground no manager is going to risk them in games.

youngsters playing with youngsters against youngsters is a fair way away from first team football but a youngster playing with seniors against seniors isn't really, fans have this idea that they'd be a massive weak-link and entirely out of their depth but how many examples of this happening can you actually give? it works the same the other way too, one senior player playing alongside a team of kids is unlikely to dominate. i don't really buy that if they perform against the first teamers in training then they'll get their chance either as there will still be the question of how they'll do in games.

despite this there's only really been a couple of occasions this season where i've been genuinely annoyed at the (mis)use of young players. the first being onomah in pre-season. he's just won the u20 world cup putting in several quality performances as a cm, his confidence is high and this was the perfect time to try him there(even more so given wanyama's problems) to see what he's got ... but no, poch sticks him back out wide and unsurprisingly he doesn't do much, then he gets packed off on loan. the other was kwp not playing in the cup game against west ham. he'd already put in two solid performances against newcastle in the league and barnsley in the previous round, this would've been a good game for his development and with rose still out injured it would've given davies a bit of a rest but nope, even in a competition we clearly don't rate of much importance(pochettino's words) he still didn't get to play ... and we lost anyway.

Bus-Conductor · Dec 4, 2017

DCSPUR said:
My understanding was that Onomah wanted the loan @WindyCOYS, @IGSpur or someone else may be able to clarify....that has been the missed opportunity for me because I think of JO was here this season he'd be getting some playing time for certain.

I think that maybe true, but not what I said, I think if Poch had played him in the summer in midfield and shown some confidence in him maybe he wouldn’t have wanted to go on loan, if true. And if Poch had planned to use him, he wouldn’t have let him go on loan.

yankspurs · Dec 4, 2017

Bus-Conductor said:
Your argument falters a bit when we have to watch the likes of Sissoko trundling around doesn't it ? There have been games this season such as Barnsley and West Ham in the cup when Alli has played 90 mins, then you have league games against Swansea, Palace, West Brom, Leicester when we've not rested or rotated anyone, whilst playing major pressure CL games too.

And when those performances have seen us looking tired and pretty void of inspiration, you start to think what if one kid like Edwards or Shashoua had been put on the bench, Son or Nkoudou started and Alli rested completely, same Eriksen for a game here or there, and Kane, and I'd have rather seen Onomah played in midfield in the summer, and maybe we could be watching him getting ad hoc games and minutes now in CM instead of the woeful Sissoko. Even if Onomah bumbled about a bit, it would hardly make any difference to what we get with Sissoko. Same could be said for TOB.

And we could have saved ourselves 25m, continued to integrated KWP, and not been any worse off as a squad than we have been by buying Aurier, who needs as much educating and acclimatising as KWP does.

Im not sure Poch deserves half the praise we all heap on him when it comes to the youth players, to be honest.

Sophos151 · Dec 4, 2017

yankspurs said:
Im not sure Poch deserves half the praise we all heap on him when it comes to the youth players, to be honest.

Winks is the only youth player he’s really brought through.

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