Match Ratings Ratings vs Man City

Blimey we don’t half turn on our own at the drop of a hat. Dier’s been excellent for months. One poor result and we’re selling him for a pack of crisps.

We desperately need Victor and Sanchez back.

ravenspurs said:

Playing time? He’s started in virtually every match since we bought him. But should he be starting? If everybody is healthy what is Dier’s place in our starting 11? He’s our second best DM. He’s our fourth best CB. He shouldn’t be a nailed on starter. He’s a good player that may one day may be a great one. But he shouldn’t be played over players that are right now just better than him. It’s as simple as that.

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Poch thinks he could be the best CB in the world. Pretty good indication of where Poch thinks Dier fits in.

Mrs VDV said:

I'm ready for the abuse but I think Winks is not even an upgrade on Bentaleb.

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It’s not like we bought Winks as an “upgrade”. He’s an academy kid who has forced his way into the starting 11 for Spurs and the English squad.

He’s earned a bit more respect than you’re showing him imo

We really miss Wanyama.

Verts was our best player at about a 7 - the rest were shite but not as shite as Trippier and Winks

What I hated the most was players like Rose and Son wanting to play hero way too many times, to the detriment of our team.

With the exception of Lamela and maybe Erikssen, most of our attacking players are so selfish. Kane is the only one who should be encouraged to sometimes exhibit this behavior, as he has the goal scoring ability to back that up... the other players, however, can totally fuck right off if they can't start thinking first about the team than their stats.

... oh and billy big bollocks Alli was complete shite as well but tbh he has been nearly all season

Rose wasn't that bad before he just gave up - quite competitive considering his heart is elsewhere.

But I gave it to Lloris who didn't have much protection and kept the score down.
Plus he needed to play quite a few passes under pressure - we know he is very weak at this.

Dembele did well pretty much on his own in midfield against the best side in europe - especially considering he is not a DM and is recovering from injury. What's up with Winks? - maybe he too is injured.

I'm not sure why both Kane and Alli were looking to break legs - maybe they want some time off at xmas.

Trix said:

Mate it's not the result that's the issue. It was our performance both individually and as a team that the fans are pissed off at.

Clearly not focused, causing too many basic mistakes.
Lack of effort from some of them.
Poor tactically and no attempt to address the issues that were so clear from the first ten minutes.

City are a great team no doubt about it, but we sure did help them today. They could have had 6-7 had Sterling had his shooting boots on.

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mate, you are one of the 4-5 posters i look at consistently....am shocked at how reactionary you are today.
Citeh are fantastic, we are weakened by injuries and form at the moment and don't have the depth for reasons you know better than most. To agree with the poster who said Dier, Dele others are playing for their high light reel is beneath you. Dier has had some very good performances this season AND did not chuck his toys in the summer when Maureen was tapping him up. Dele is just in crap form but he is young and it was going to happen....

That was pretty much my worst fears realised. People are slaughtering players left, right and centre but the biggest culprit for that debacle was Pochettino. I love the burgundy headed one but, not for the first time this season, he's made a fucking complete tactical dogs dinner of that game.

There were two ways to play that game IMO, but neither of them should have involved pitting a glue factory bound Dembele and rooky Winks as a CM2 against one of the best CM3's in football right now, that alone was a hanging offence which set the tone for the game. The midfield is the engine room and it was like a Fiesta ST and Golf Gti Mk2 lining up on the grid next to Mitsubishi Evo, Audi RS4 and BMW M3.

The two tactical approaches were - my choice - be pragmatic, set up to be absorbent and to counter like we did against Real Madrid and Liverpool. Or go hard, try to play them at their own game and press the life out of them, stop them being able to build rhythm and try to force errors high up and get at their defenders, who can be suspect under pressure, but Poch just hasn't got us doing this well all season, even against shit teams at home, so why he would consider this for a nano second as an option against this City, away, is baffling.

I just do not understand how Poch could have watched City and thought he'd get away with the shite he pulled today. Against both RM and Liverpool he went with the deeper, 3CB/3CM systems, making us hard to pass round and through. And it was perfect. Why he's gone with this flimsy bullshit, first away at Arsenal and even more stupidly today is utterly baffling. Poch even played a 433 against Brighton, why the fucking hell does he think it prudent to switch to a CM2 against ManC away ? It's fucking bananas.

First half we kind of played a narrow 4222, and it left both CM's stretched and both full backs completely exposed. It mutated into a bog standard 4231 second half, but this was little better. Why Poch didn't rectify the midfield imbalance quicker is beyond comprehension, he should have dropped Eriksen or Alli back to make a CM3 and had Son and Alli/Eriksen protecting their FB's.

And to exacerbate (@Spurrific ) the poor tactical approach by making so many other tactical errors in terms of structure and personnel selections was just really piss poor. Trippier in forward areas is better than both Aurier and Walker, and as a RWB in the 3CB system, or at a push against most ordinary teams in a back four system I see his merits for sure, but away at City in a back 4 (and not our best back 4 either) was a big and, more importantly, unnecessary risk . We have the ability to rotate all our FB's, but Poch is making completely counterintuitive decisions, and has got the rotation all wrong for a couple of weeks. He even had the option of playing KWP in the dead rubber CL, which could have kept Aurier and Trippier fresher for the hectic Christmas fixtures. Trippier should have played against Brighton (where the game would e played in their half) and Aurier should have played today, where his pace and physicality would have been more useful because it was always more likely, especially in this set up, that our RB was going to be doing more defending than forward marauding.

We went wrong shape, wrong personnel, and completely wrong application. The trifector of tactical ineptitude.

The approach was very wrong because Poch just cannot get us to press any more. I have been saying this for a long time but I believe a major factor in that is Alli. Alli is just not conducive to a team that tries to hunt the ball back quickly and cohesively. He constantly flips it away cheaply, but rarely busts a gut to get it back when he does, leaving others, now short handed to recover. Son doesn't help much either. I watched today as Kane would move in on the keeper or CB, Eriksen would then push up on his man, but instead of Alli and Son squeezing up on their men too, they would instead stand off 5 yards and wait until the ball is passed to their man, which is the worst possible way to press, you take two of your own players out completely, they get big spaces to pass through and the already overstretched and outnumbered CM2 are being pulled all over the place, up, down, left and right to try and make up ground lost, and against one of the best tick tick passing teams in Europe that was just suicidal.

People will point fingers at midfielders and defenders, but they were to a large extent hostages to the misfortune of Poch’s tactical gruel, but the attacking group were by far the guiltiest offenders, the bunch of them were so fucking inept today it was painful. There were several times at 0-1 second half when were trying to get a foothold in the game, had good situations, but they just wanked them away with some reckless fuckery. The killer second goal come from Kane failing to control the ball and not chasing it back.

Of course, Poch is not helped by the absence of players like Wanyama and TA, but you would think in those circumstances it would force you to think more conservatively not more kimakazi . And I also have very little sympathy with his injury plight when he's wasted so many chances to rotate and integrate players from our academy and other squad players who could offer at least some temporary respite to some of these deficiencies. I was saying Alli needed benching weeks ago, he's 21, is playing erratically, and for the sake of him learning and not burning out, a rest might have had him back and firing by now, but no, he's was even played against Appoel - instead of maybe giving another squad or academy player a chance to progress a smidgeon.

Singling out Winks today is ridiculous. Dembele was no better. Gave the ball away more than Winks. This midfield problem we have now has been in the making for a coupe of years. Even in the "Leicester" season some of us were flagging it up as a problem. We find ourselves in a situation where we have no fit 6's and only one fit half decent 8, and he's only made about 10 league starts because he wasn't deemed "ready" enough to start between December and April last season. I don't think Winks is wonder bread, I've tempered all praise of Winks with caveats about his game, but at the moment he's the only CM we have who shows for the ball constantly and moves it with any vim, and he's probably been one of the few success stories of this season, player wise, playing vital parts in our best performances, but today it was impossible for him, put into the wrong structure, outnumbered by superior quality players.

We desperately need to put aside the notion of prioritising any more erratic attacking twats, and go and buy a proper midfielder or two.

Poch needs to have a long hard look at himself. We didn't just get beat today because ManC have better players, we got mullered today because they have a manager who has the courage of his convictions and ours has lost his a little bit. And it's not the first time this has happened, we got out worked by Memit fucking Ozil at the Emirates.

Poch needs to get us back to basics, back to his supposed philosophy, he needs to get players doing the shitty stuff, working for the team and not just themselves, and if any of this lot can't or won't then he needs to walk his talk, fuck them out for a rest, pick players based on their ability to do what we need as a team, not what they need to get them a highlight spot by Alan fucking Shearer on MOTD.

agrdavidsfan said:

You are 100% right Dele for bale for me I would do it.

Bale at his worst is still better than what Dele is giving us

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Bale wouldn't start half the games, he makes Anderton's injury record look like a weekend cold.

That moment in the first half when Winks had a fairly easy ball to put Son bang through on goal but instead chose Rose running up on the left was absolutely atrocious. Rose then smashed it into the crowd with a skewed cross. You can't defend Winks on that, you have to make the most of your opportunities. Winks is another Thoroughbred English Sidepasser. Winks bashing wholely justified

Bus-Conductor said:

That was pretty much my worst fears realised. People are slaughtering players left, right and centre but the biggest culprit for that debacle was Pochettino. I love the burgundy headed one but, not for the first time this season, he's made a fucking complete tactical dogs dinner of that game.

There were two ways to play that game IMO, but neither of them should have involved pitting a glue factory bound Dembele and rooky Winks as a CM2 against one of the best CM3's in football right now, that alone was a hanging offence which set the tone for the game. The midfield is the engine room and it was like a Fiesta ST and Golf Gti Mk2 lining up on the grid next to Mitsubishi Evo, Audi RS4 and BMW M3.

The two tactical approaches were - my choice - be pragmatic, set up to be absorbent and to counter like we did against Real Madrid and Liverpool. Or go hard, try to play them at their own game and press the life out of them, stop them being able to build rhythm and try to force errors high up and get at their defenders, who can be suspect under pressure, but Poch just hasn't got us doing this well all season, even against shit teams at home, so why he would consider this for a nano second as an option against this City, away, is baffling.

I just do not understand how Poch could have watched City and thought he'd get away with the shite he pulled today. Against both RM and Liverpool he went with the deeper, 3CB/3CM systems, making us hard to pass round and through. And it was perfect. Why he's gone with this flimsy bullshit, first away at Arsenal and even more stupidly today is utterly baffling. Poch even played a 433 against Brighton, why the fucking hell does he think it prudent to switch to a CM2 against ManC away ? It's fucking bananas.

First half we kind of played a narrow 4222, and it left both CM's stretched and both full backs completely exposed. It mutated into a bog standard 4231 second half, but this was little better. Why Poch didn't rectify the midfield imbalance quicker is beyond comprehension, he should have dropped Eriksen or Alli back to make a CM3 and had Son and Alli/Eriksen protecting their FB's.

And to exacerbate (@Spurrific ) the poor tactical approach by making so many other tactical errors in terms of structure and personnel selections was just really piss poor. Trippier in forward areas is better than both Aurier and Walker, and as a RWB in the 3CB system, or at a push against most ordinary teams in a back four system I see his merits for sure, but away at City in a back 4 (and not our best back 4 either) was a big and, more importantly, unnecessary risk . We have the ability to rotate all our FB's, but Poch is making completely counterintuitive decisions, and has got the rotation all wrong for a couple of weeks. He even had the option of playing KWP in the dead rubber CL, which could have kept Aurier and Trippier fresher for the hectic Christmas fixtures. Trippier should have played against Brighton (where the game would e played in their half) and Aurier should have played today, where his pace and physicality would have been more useful because it was always more likely, especially in this set up, that our RB was going to be doing more defending than forward marauding.

We went wrong shape, wrong personnel, and completely wrong application. The trifector of tactical ineptitude.

The approach was very wrong because Poch just cannot get us to press any more. I have been saying this for a long time but I believe a major factor in that is Alli. Alli is just not conducive to a team that tries to hunt the ball back quickly and cohesively. He constantly flips it away cheaply, but rarely busts a gut to get it back when he does, leaving others, now short handed to recover. Son doesn't help much either. I watched today as Kane would move in on the keeper or CB, Eriksen would then push up on his man, but instead of Alli and Son squeezing up on their men too, they would instead stand off 5 yards and wait until the ball is passed to their man, which is the worst possible way to press, you take two of your own players out completely, they get big spaces to pass through and the already overstretched and outnumbered CM2 are being pulled all over the place, up, down, left and right to try and make up ground lost, and against one of the best tick tick passing teams in Europe that was just suicidal.

Of course, Poch is not helped by the absence of players like Wanyama and TA, but you would think in those circumstances it would force you to think more conservatively not more kimakazi . And I also have very little sympathy with his injury plight when he's wasted so many chances to rotate and integrate players from our academy and other squad players who could offer at least some temporary respite to some of these deficiencies. I was saying Alli needed benching weeks ago, he's 21, is playing erratically, and for the sake of him learning and not burning out, a rest might have had him back and firing by now, but no, he's was even played against Appoel - instead of maybe giving another squad or academy player a chance to progress a smidgeon.

Singling out Winks today is ridiculous. Dembele was no better. Gave the ball away more than Winks. This midfield problem we have now this season has been n the making for a coupe of years. Even in the "Leicester" season some of were flagging it up as a problem. We find ourselves in a situation where we have no fit 6's and only one fit half decent 8, and he's only made about 10 league starts because he wasn't deemed fit to start between December and April last season. I don't think Winks is wonder bread, I've tempered all praise of Winks with caveats about his game, but at the moment he's the only CM we have who shows for the ball constantly and moves it with any vim, and he's probably been one of the few success stories of this season, player wise, playing vital parts in our best performances, but today it was impossible

We desperately need to put aside the notion of prioritising any more erratic attacking twats, and go and buy a proper midfielder or two.

Poch needs to have a long hard look at himself. We didn't just get beat today because ManC have better players, we got mullered today because they have a manager who has the courage of his convictions and ours has lost his a little bit. And it's not the first time this has happened, we got out worked by Memit fucking Ozil at the Emirates.

Poch needs to get us back to basics, back to his supposed philosophy, he needs to get players doing the shitty stuff, working for the team and not just themselves, and if any of this lot can't or won't then he needs to walk his talk, fuck them out for a rest, pick players based on their ability to do what we need as a team, not what they need to get them a highlight spot by Alan fucking Shearer on MOTD.

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I agree with that assessment. It should also be noted that we came across a team at the pinnacle of their game. Brimming with confidence and purpose. You pit that team, against our team during the last six games of last season, and it's a much better contest. We are the opposite of them right now. We lack confidence and purpose. Our team chemistry looks flimsy. And our coach is making some odd decision here-and-there, which you can see the players are having a hard time implementing his tactics on the field.
Granted, City played very well, and made it really hard for our players to breathe. But weren't helped by some players being hapless: Trippier, Winks, Rose, Dier -- all of them in particular were at fault for errors that had zero to do with City's skill. Just sheer lack of concentration and panic.
There's no doubt this team is missing Wanyama and Toby. Walker too. But Toby and Victor bring so much defensive calm to our team, that it helps our attacking players find space and do what they can sometimes do well.
Even in knowing that... Poch really fucked up with team selection and tactics. Really, really fucked up. Any casual follower of the game, could have told you that Trippier was going to be chasing shadows with Mane. Like anyone could have told you that this is NOT the game for dipshits like Son and Alli who can't hold on to the ball in tight spaces. Nor is this the game to play a really lightweight midfield. I just don't get what he was thinking, and find myself really troubled by this result.
Not just because we lost to a much better side. But the impact it has on players like Kane. He must look over at Walker and think to himself, 'what a lucky bastard'. He's gonna be showered in trophies over the next few years, all the while, making more money than a player considered to be one of the top 5 strikers in the world. How can that not get to him?
More than anything, today exposed some gaps we have that will continue to expand and fester, unless something is done by both coach and chairman to stem the tide.
Sorry for being a negative-nelly, but there's something about this game today, that left me feeling very worried.

Lloris 7 - kicking not great, pushed some saves straight out in front of himself, but redeemed himself with few saves....busy
Trippier 2 - And to think some people thought we upgraded on Walker...shesh
Dier 0 Never a centre half, has the touch of a rapist, bumbling fool at the back and never as good as Wanyama for def mid
Verts 7.5 Best of a bad lot
Rose -1 Sell Sell Sell, back to the Sunderland Rose, UTD are welcome to him
Winks 2 - Poor, rabbit caught in the headlights, but forgiven due to lack of exp etc - bit naive, should have went down for penno or at least took a shot
Dembele 3 Not his best by a long shot, against the best mid in prem, but no help from Ali or winks either
Eriksen 4 Meh
Alli 1 Should have got the line, caught up in his own hype methinks, couldnt be more off form if he tried
Son 5 Tried, no service
Kane 4 Still dont look fit, getting bullied a bit by CH, which aint like him

Poch 2 Bit ambitious with set up but had to try, hopefully better days ahead, Burnley next week away will be major test of his credentials

So much bollocks posted here. We were OK. No one played dreadfully. For over an hour, we made a game of it, without playing negative football.

Trippier made a few unforced errors and was tortured systematically by Sané's pace. Other than that, it was all the relentless Man City press making us cough up the ball and making everyone look as if they were thinking and passing too slowly. Which they were.

They're just way better than everyone else. Including us. Blaming individual players for a loss such as this is just infantile. They are a better team, with superior, more expensive players, better organised by a more experienced manager.

We are where we are: a very good team. Man City are on their way to break records by the handful.

davidmatzdorf said:

So much bollocks posted here. We were OK. No one played dreadfully. For over an hour, we made a game of it, without playing negative football.

Trippier made a few unforced errors and was tortured systematically by Sané's pace. Other than that, it was all the relentless Man City press making us cough up the ball and making everyone look as if they were thinking and passing too slowly. Which they were.

They're just way better than everyone else. Including us. Blaming individual players for a loss such as this is just infantile. They are a better team, with superior, more expensive players, better organised by a more experienced manager.

We are where we are: a very good team. Man City are on their way to break records by the handful.

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THANKS David. Now that there is a sensible post on here I am signing off for a few days!

southlondonyiddo said:

I would imagine it is What’s not Whats but thanks for the English lesson

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You are welcome

Burnley next week is massive..

davidmatzdorf said:

So much bollocks posted here. We were OK. No one played dreadfully. For over an hour, we made a game of it, without playing negative football.

Trippier made a few unforced errors and was tortured systematically by Sané's pace. Other than that, it was all the relentless Man City press making us cough up the ball and making everyone look as if they were thinking and passing too slowly. Which they were.

They're just way better than everyone else. Including us. Blaming individual players for a loss such as this is just infantile. They are a better team, with superior, more expensive players, better organised by a more experienced manager.

We are where we are: a very good team. Man City are on their way to break records by the handful.

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I'd like to believe this ...but this malaise is not confined to the City match , suggesting this doesn't wash . Poch has lost the press we had last season . 'Without our energy we are ordinary' (Alderweireld) says it all .

Phomesy said:

Blimey we don’t half turn on our own at the drop of a hat. Dier’s been excellent for months. One poor result and we’re selling him for a pack of crisps.

We desperately need Victor and Sanchez back.

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He hasn’t, he’s been very up and down and was awful at the start of the season. It’s just that different people have different opinions. He’s been at fault for a fair few goals this year