Race for the Top 4 - 2017/18

shelfboy68 · Dec 19, 2017

Hazardousman said:
I said at the start of this season we would likely finish 7th because of Wembley and I still think that now.

We could pull a rabbit out of the hat in the CL and go all the way but it's doubtful.

Truth be told I have had some time to think about everything and I genuinely think Poch is having trouble motivating the group, I think for the big games in the CL like Madrid it was easy to get them going, that kind of game is enough to motivate any player but in the league, when the players know it is already gone, he has struggled, I actually think it is also having an impact on him, I think at times even he is struggling to get motivated, maybe he is seeing the players not responding and it is disheartening?

There are numerous reasons why that might be the case but the lack of pressing and effort compared to other seasons is more than evident and he has spoken to the players about us starting games slow and it doesn't seem to have had an impact on any of them, if anything it has worrried

I think the bulk of our problem right now is the fact we have key players injured and also because, like it or not, a few of our players may have their heads out of the door or possibly even thinking about the world cup now that they know the PL is basically impossible.

I fully expect us to perform well in the CL, maybe even reach the quarters, have a half decent run in the FA Cup and finish 6th/7th in the league, nothing really is suggesting otherwise right now.

We need to have a huge upswing in form and the only way that can happen is if Poch motivates them and whilst I think he is capable as a man of doing such a thing, I just think, for some of them, nothing will change their minds or get then going, especially if they already have one foot out of the door and they no longer believe in the "project"

My verdict is, it will be a tough season and whilst we shouldn't give up hope, we should most certainly be aware that their may be more problems than just bad form right now.

The main thing we need to do, regardless of what happens is stick with Poch, this man had proven he is capable, been the best manager I have seen in my lifetime and I think once we win one trophy under his guidance we will be unstoppable.

He isn't perfect, nobody is, but it pisses me off when people sit the entire blame at his feet, if we had a team full of players with the same attitude as Poch mentally then we would have likely already won a trophy, instead we have a few of them who, for whatever reason, think it's ok to give less than 100% when they step into a spurs shirt.

Well, it isnt ok, if I was going to criticise Poch for one single thing this season it would be that he has stuck with players that quite frankly should have been dropped weeks ago, he needs to go back to basics and do what he does best, bring in players that are motivated, youth players that will leave it all on the pitch and show a few of the comfortable first teamers that they should never think it's a given they will be selected.

Just a few thoughts, I am probably wrong about everything lol.

He can only drop players if he has quality in depth to fill those positions which we have to assume he hasn't, so he is left with no choice but to continue playing people woefully out of form.

shelfmonkey · Dec 19, 2017

Lighty64 said:
the spine has been missing Toby and Victor

You're right, but it's high time the rest of them grew one!!

shelfmonkey · Dec 19, 2017

coys200 said:
I think West Ham postponement benefits us for Swansea and West Ham game. We have a week break for Swansea they have 3 days. And I imagine will prioritise the home game before a visit to Wembley. West Ham is now 48 hours break for both of us. They have quite a few injuries an aging team and smaller squad so I think it gives us an advantage there.

We're usually shit after a long (ish) break against a team that hasn't. West Ham will be organised and, as usual, super motivated, from what I've seen so far we have a miserable Christmas ahead.

slartibartfast · Dec 19, 2017

Lighty64 said:
think your find we are 5pts worse off compared to after 18 games last season. after 18 games last season we had 36pts

Game for game, our results against the teams we've already played, we are 8pts worse off than last season.
Given our injuries and the Wembley factor thats not not surprising.
However if we want any chance of top 4 our 2nd half of season is going to have to improve big time. Dropped far too many points against shite.

luptic · Dec 19, 2017

This just isn't a reaction to the defeat on Saturday, but overall performance since the start of the season.
We have been lacking number is areas where we were all concerned with at the start of the season.
There has been too many games where the options from the bench lessened our chances of a win when we were struggling.
There has been too many injuries to key men and while the options on the bench would have coped in previous years they haven’t this year.
That said we have been playing away from home all of this season, and in those home matches were we struggled the home atmosphere would have got us over the line.
Whilst it has been good to see Rose and Lamela back from long term injury, in the case of rose he hasn’t returned in the same condition as he had left.
I honestly can see us finishing 4th this season, if we did it would remarkable, but to do so our performance need to improve starting this weekend for a start.
Failure to get three points this weekend, could be damming.
I would like to see us strengthen in January, but we haven’t really seen anything in January for a few seasons now so really there is not much hope come the 31st that our playing staff would be improved.

Flashp · Dec 19, 2017

slartibartfast said:
Game for game, our results against the teams we've already played, we are 8pts worse off than last season.
Given our injuries and the Wembley gactor thats not not surprising.
However if we want any chance of top 4 our 2nd half of season is going to have to improve big time. Dropped far too many points against shite.

Burnley, Swansea and West Brom at home, comes to mind. These were games that we won comfortably last season, Burnley only 2-1, but we were by far the better team on the night.

I'm not so concerned about our away form against the rest of the top 6, it's pretty much the same as it's been over the last two seasons. It's dropping stupid points at home that has been our main problem. Had we won those games this season, we would only have been a point of Chelsea in third.

Last season we raised our game considerably in the new year, we will have to do something likewise to finish in the top 4 this season, IMO.

shelfboy68 · Dec 19, 2017

shelfmonkey said:
We're usually shit after a long (ish) break against a team that hasn't. West Ham will be organised and, as usual, super motivated, from what I've seen so far we have a miserable Christmas ahead.

Yes they are always motivated against us and have picked up points against Chelsea and arsenal so will not be an easy game.

shelfboy68 · Dec 19, 2017

Flashp said:
Burnley, Swansea and West Brom at home, comes to mind. These were games that we won comfortably last season, Burnley only 2-1, but we were by far the better team on the night.

I'm not so concerned about our away form against the rest of the top 6, it's pretty much the same as it's been over the last two seasons. It's dropping stupid points at home that has been our main problem. Had we won those games this season, we would only have been a point of Chelsea in third.

Last season we raised our game considerably in the new year, we will have to do something likewise to finish in the top 4 this season, IMO.

There is something missing this year maybe a bit of motivation and that willingness to go the extra mile for each other definitely not as effective this time.
The failure to not be able to despatch those sides could be costly in the final analysis, but also not getting anything at the top six is a concern we still have Chelsea and Liverpool to play and expect a clean sweep of defeats which is not good enough.

kr1978 · Dec 19, 2017

Lighty64 said:
think your find we are 5pts worse off compared to after 18 games last season. after 18 games last season we had 36pts

You are indeed correct, the article I stole that from decided to ignore that we had a game in hand after week 18s fixtures last year!

I still stand by the main point I have was making though (y)

Lighty64 · Dec 19, 2017

shelfmonkey said:
You're right, but it's high time the rest of them grew one!!

think Alli's success over the last 2 seasons have gone to his head, dumped his agent, busy doing tv ads and struggling to find spaces in packed defences

Lighty64 · Dec 19, 2017

slartibartfast said:
Game for game, our results against the teams we've already played, we are 8pts worse off than last season.
Given our injuries and the Wembley gactor thats not not surprising.
However if we want any chance of top 4 our 2nd half of season is going to have to improve big time. Dropped far too many points against shite.

I have us down as 7pts from the game to game comparison thread

panoma · Dec 19, 2017

tototoner said:
we've played Man City, Man Utd and Arsenal away already, still fairly confident we'll finish 2nd

City will be crowned champions in March

What about our season so far makes you think this? Really interested in your reasoning

We struggle breaking down teams that park the bus, Alli and Eriksen been different players to last season, our midfield core is gone, Toby out for most the season etch.

I would LOVE for you to be right, but personally I'd be thrilled if we somehow snatched 4th (and I really think that will be a challenge)

Pellshek · Dec 19, 2017

Jesus, didn't realise we were 7 pts back of 3rd (I haven't been able to face football or look at the tables until today.) Not insurmountable by any means, but still a fair click of a deficit.

slartibartfast · Dec 19, 2017

Lighty64 said:
I have us down as 7pts from the game to game comparison thread

Might depend who you've got swapping for who in relegated/promoted teams. I'll have another look when I can be arsed.

homer hotspur · Dec 19, 2017

I agree that I simply cannot understand how anyone could be fairly confident of finishing 2nd(but fair play to them)- I am not fairly confident of finishing 4th. I think the only realistic, significant, signing in January could be Ross Barkley - clearly that nearly happened in the summer and there will have been a lot of contact between the parties since then. Somehow though, I think it is more likely that he will go elsewhere( Chelsea) now and not just for financial reasons(but mainly). I also think that DL will expect to pay virtually nothing now( circa £5-£10 million) whereas Chelsea/ a n other will be willing to pay over the odds to get him in. He could also still be persuaded to sign a new deal at Everton which is likely to be on a higher wage than we will offer. As for our league hopes, we would probably stand a better chance if we went out of CL earlier than Liverpool and Arsenal( EL) as those big matches in March/April tend to damage league form, but I think that maybe most people would probably prefer to make the most of the CL this year and perhaps the FA cup. For once though, I think we should be looking to get into EL next season(if no CL) and to really give it a go in the new stadium. It is now guaranteed entry to the CL group stages so is more valuable and glamorous than finishing 4th.

Japhet · Dec 19, 2017

4th will be a huge struggle IMO. We had a miserable start at Wembley and have been ravaged by injuries. We simply don't have the quality in depth to cope with that and unless we suddenly become a plastic club (heaven forbid), I doubt we ever will. It seems obvious to me that other teams have adopted our high press tactics (with superior players in City's case) because we were so successful with it. It also seems obvious to me that we are not anywhere near as good at pressing as we were. There seems to be an air of lethargy about the place. Add to that the inability to break down bus-parkers and I think it's going to be a tough old season.

Lighty64 · Dec 19, 2017

slartibartfast said:
Might depend who you've got swapping for who in relegated/promoted teams. I'll have another look when I can be arsed.

we've beaten all promoted teams

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/game-for-game-comparison-2017-18.129754/

slartibartfast · Dec 19, 2017

Lighty64 said:
we've beaten all promoted teams

Couldn't be arsed to check that either lol.

Colonel Dax · Dec 19, 2017

shelfboy68 said:
There is something missing this year

Agreed. Number of factors IMO...

1. Wembley
2. Injuries to key players (Wanyama/Toby).
3. Out of form players such as Eriksen and Dele.
4. Failure to spruce up midfield and attacking positions last summer
5. Walker sale / wages situation / restlessness
6. Lack of the intense press in our play and/or other teams working out how to combat the press.
7. Rival top 6 teams doing better than last season
8. Poch 3 year cycle with the current squad: players lacking motivation (solution: refresh of playing personnel needed next summer?)

Probably more factors but that's all I can think of currently.

Shadydan · Dec 19, 2017

Hazardousman said:
I said at the start of this season we would likely finish 7th because of Wembley and I still think that now.

We could pull a rabbit out of the hat in the CL and go all the way but it's doubtful.

Truth be told I have had some time to think about everything and I genuinely think Poch is having trouble motivating the group, I think for the big games in the CL like Madrid it was easy to get them going, that kind of game is enough to motivate any player but in the league, when the players know it is already gone, he has struggled, I actually think it is also having an impact on him, I think at times even he is struggling to get motivated, maybe he is seeing the players not responding and it is disheartening?

There are numerous reasons why that might be the case but the lack of pressing and effort compared to other seasons is more than evident and he has spoken to the players about us starting games slow and it doesn't seem to have had an impact on any of them, if anything it has worsened.

I think the bulk of our problem right now is the fact we have key players injured and also because, like it or not, a few of our players may have their heads out of the door or possibly even thinking about the world cup now that they know the PL is basically impossible.

I fully expect us to perform well in the CL, maybe even reach the quarters, have a half decent run in the FA Cup and finish 6th/7th in the league, nothing really is suggesting otherwise right now.

We need to have a huge upswing in form and the only way that can happen is if Poch motivates them and whilst I think he is capable as a man of doing such a thing, I just think, for some of them, nothing will change their minds or get then going, especially if they already have one foot out of the door and they no longer believe in the "project"

My verdict is, it will be a tough season and whilst we shouldn't give up hope, we should most certainly be aware that their may be more problems than just bad form right now.

The main thing we need to do, regardless of what happens is stick with Poch, this man had proven he is capable, been the best manager I have seen in my lifetime and I think once we win one trophy under his guidance we will be unstoppable.

He isn't perfect, nobody is, but it pisses me off when people sit the entire blame at his feet, if we had a team full of players with the same attitude as Poch mentally then we would have likely already won a trophy, instead we have a few of them who, for whatever reason, think it's ok to give less than 100% when they step into a spurs shirt.

Well, it isnt ok, if I was going to criticise Poch for one single thing this season it would be that he has stuck with players that quite frankly should have been dropped weeks ago, he needs to go back to basics and do what he does best, bring in players that are motivated, youth players that will leave it all on the pitch and show a few of the comfortable first teamers that they should never think it's a given they will be selected.

Just a few thoughts, I am probably wrong about everything lol.

Didn't you write the same things in your infamous thread last year?

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