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What do we need to win ‘titles’ ?

lukespurs7

Well-Known Member
Feb 21, 2006
4,833
4,259
It is difficult with the money city Chelsea and man.u to an extend spend and have spent but I think we are doing a great job at closing the gap. Recruitment is still key as we need to keep punching above our weight like athletico Madrid have. If we can keep 90% of our squads top players and if we sell any we don’t sell them to a direct rival and also replace them adequately and then add 2-3 top quality players I think we are in a good place to win a title or trophy IF man.city, Chelsea and mabye man.u have below average seasons or at least just not extraordinary ones.

The money side of it all is depressing but there is nothing we can do about it so let’s keep going as we are and then if and when we do win a title or trophy it will mean so so much!

COYS
 

Mullers

Unknown member
Jan 4, 2006
25,914
16,413
Liverpool are about to drop £75m on Van Dijk and have Naby Keita coming in next season for near enough the same amount. We're nowhere near that level of spend. Money is the difference.
We don't need to be near that level of spend and I wouldn't want to be. 75 million on Van Dijk is crazy. We have Sanchez who was our most expensive signing at 42 million, who will be world class.
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
25,358
38,300
We don't need to be near that level of spend and I wouldn't want to be. 75 million on Van Dijk is crazy. We have Sanchez who was our most expensive signing at 42 million, who will be world class.
Plus, Liverpool will balance it financially by selling Coutinho.
 

walworthyid

David Ginola
Oct 25, 2004
7,059
10,242
We need;

Creative midfielder who can dictate play eg Silva, Ariel Ortega type
Goal scoring winger/inside forward with pace eg Son, Sane
Back up striker who can score
More belief and experience
Stop square passing from the keeper when we are being pressed. Our biggest problem in terms of in game performance has been in the transition into midfield. So slow and predictable.

We are not far away. City have changed the game and I believe that we will change with it. There has been a marked change since we played them. No more slow and lethargic first 15 minutes. Much more pressing. Moving the ball quicker and more incisively. The problem is having the belief and confidence to do that in the bigger games away from home.
 

DEFchenkOE

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2006
10,527
8,052
A fit Bale and Modric back would be a good start. But unfortunately we don't have the finances for that. And that's what it comes down to. We need a few more experienced players who have won stuff. Man C were able to buy some World class talent before they had won anything purely because of how much they could pay. Until we can do that we won't win titles imo as much as I hate to say it.
 

kitchen

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2006
2,275
3,587
All the money in the world can't buy you the ability to field more than 11 players at a time. There is a logical limit to how big the gap in the 11 best players can be, regardless of money. People who think we need more money are lacking in vision, creativity and football understand enough to come up with actual solutions.

There is no solution to consistently beating a better team with better players, and all the money in the world could buy you the best 11 players that you can field. City might not spend limitless money, but conceivably limitless money could allow you to field this sort of 11:

Manager: Guardiola

De Gea

Kimmich Chellini Godin Alaba

De Bruyne Vidal Modric

Messi Suarez Ronaldo

Subs: Neuer, Neymar, Kante, Kane, Salah, Azpilcueta, Silva

How do you rate our chances against that lot, provided both teams are well coached and organised?

Poch is doing a great job with the resources at his disposal, but he's playing an unfair game against a very adept (possibly better) manager with far more resources. He's very good at developing players which is perfect for us, but all Guardiola has to do at City is look on the market for the very best players and ask Mansour to pull out the cheque book.
 

kitchen

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2006
2,275
3,587
Whoever Van Dyke goes to, we already have two, potentially three better centre backs than him.

Agree, he's decent. Not worth 75 million, and Sanchez is better with a much higher ceiling.

I worry about them getting Keita though... He could be a major difference maker in the way that Kante was for Chelsea and Leicester.
 

lukespurs7

Well-Known Member
Feb 21, 2006
4,833
4,259
We need;

Creative midfielder who can dictate play eg Silva, Ariel Ortega type
Goal scoring winger/inside forward with pace eg Son, Sane
Back up striker who can score
More belief and experience
Stop square passing from the keeper when we are being pressed. Our biggest problem in terms of in game performance has been in the transition into midfield. So slow and predictable.

We are not far away. City have changed the game and I believe that we will change with it. There has been a marked change since we played them. No more slow and lethargic first 15 minutes. Much more pressing. Moving the ball quicker and more incisively. The problem is having the belief and confidence to do that in the bigger games away from home.
This
 

lukespurs7

Well-Known Member
Feb 21, 2006
4,833
4,259
There is no solution to consistently beating a better team with better players, and all the money in the world could buy you the best 11 players that you can field. City might not spend limitless money, but conceivably limitless money could allow you to field this sort of 11:

Manager: Guardiola

De Gea

Kimmich Chellini Godin Alaba

De Bruyne Vidal Modric

Messi Suarez Ronaldo

Subs: Neuer, Neymar, Kante, Kane, Salah, Azpilcueta, Silva

How do you rate our chances against that lot, provided both teams are well coached and organised?

Poch is doing a great job with the resources at his disposal, but he's playing an unfair game against a very adept (possibly better) manager with far more resources. He's very good at developing players which is perfect for us, but all Guardiola has to do at City is look on the market for the very best players and ask Mansour to pull out the cheque book.
I see your point but no team has all of the players you’ve mentioned, Man.Citys is very good but we have players who’d get in their team and squad for sure:
Rose
Toby
Jan
Wanyama
Son
Eriksen
Dele?
Kane

It is an unfair game but it is still possible for us to win things, if Man.City have another season like this one next year then they really have changed the goalposts but I can’t see it tbh.
 

lukespurs7

Well-Known Member
Feb 21, 2006
4,833
4,259
Agree, he's decent. Not worth 75 million, and Sanchez is better with a much higher ceiling.

I worry about them getting Keita though... He could be a major difference maker in the way that Kante was for Chelsea and Leicester.
Agree.
Kieta is class.
If they then get a top class goalie and full back we are in trouble
 

lukespurs7

Well-Known Member
Feb 21, 2006
4,833
4,259
One thing I do fear is that poch and this squad came 3-5years too soon.
If we had this team from 3 years ago from next season When we move into new ground and can start to pay better wages and bring in better players then I think we’d be even closer to closing the gap. Unfortunately Toby is 28 and won’t wait to now be paid more and win things, kane is 24 and May only give it a few more years in his prime until he gets itchy feet. Does poch really want to stay for another 5-10 years to try and win something, I would if I was him as the thrill of having built a legacy and long term project would be amazing but does he agree.
 

lukespurs7

Well-Known Member
Feb 21, 2006
4,833
4,259
This is all subjective but if we compared us to the current top 6 on a number of areas I think it currently stands like this:

1st XI:
1 - Man.City
2 - Chelsea
3 - Tottenham
4- Arsenal/Liverpool
5- Man.U

Attack:
1- Man.City
2- Liverpool
3- Tottenham
4- Arsenal
5- Man.U
6- Chelsea

Defence:
1- Man.City(due to players and style of play)
2- Chelsea/Man.U
3- Tottenham
4- Arsenal
5- Liverpool

Squad depth:
1- Man.City
2- Man.U
3- Chelsea
4- Arsenal
5- Tottenham
6- Liverpool

Manager: (success,experience,future potential and current level combined)
1- Man.City/Pep Guadiola
2- Chelsea/Conte
3- Man.U/Mouriniho
4- Tottenham/Poch
5-Liverpool/Koop
6-Arsenal/Wenger

Money/spending power + wages
1- Man.City
2- Chelsea
3- Man.U
4- Liverpool
5- Arsenal
6-Tottenham

Stadium:
1- Man.U
2- Tottenham
3- Arsenal
4- Man.City/Liverpool
5- Chelsea

Club mentality of success(more recently)
1- Man.U
2- Chelsea
3- Man.City
4- Arsenal
5- Liverpool
6 - Tottenham

So as we can see we aren’t top in any single aspect, in terms of stadium we were last but will now go to 2nd. We have a manager who has as much potential as any of the other bar mabye Pep who seems to be quite special, our first XI if we keep them all is competitive but Liverpool are strengthening as I’m sure Arsenal will, we can’t stand still on that front. Some of these areas it is basically impossible to compete due to the money but if we can close the gap in the other areas and overachieve as Poch has us consistently doing then mabye Just mabye we can win something.

COYS.
 

archiewasking

Waiting for silverware..........
Jul 5, 2004
7,848
11,668
This is all subjective but if we compared us to the current top 6 on a number of areas I think it currently stands like this:



Manager: (success,experience,future potential and current level combined)
1- Man.City/Pep Guadiola
2- Chelsea/Conte
3- Man.U/Mouriniho
4- Tottenham/Poch
5-Liverpool/Koop
6-Arsenal/Wenger

COYS.

Much as I don't like him, Wenger down at 6th? Really? I'd have him no lower than behind Pep and Moaninho.
 

kitchen

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2006
2,275
3,587
I see your point but no team has all of the players you’ve mentioned, Man.Citys is very good but we have players who’d get in their team and squad for sure:
Rose
Toby
Jan
Wanyama
Son
Eriksen
Dele?
Kane

It is an unfair game but it is still possible for us to win things, if Man.City have another season like this one next year then they really have changed the goalposts but I can’t see it tbh.

Not sure you do see my point. Obviously no team has all the players I mentioned- it's pure fantasy football, The point I was making was that limitless cash could get you that team and they'd pretty much be unstoppable. City have a limit, but it's a much much higher limit than ours and most others and their team looks pretty unstoppable already (certainly in the EPL).

Unless they lose Guardiola, I can't see us catching them regardless of how many gems we can realistically unearth. They have the ability and finance to buy the finished article to fit perfectly in to his plan and system.

It's not even that their players are that much better than ours on paper. It's about being able to buy the perfect player to fit the system and team balance perfectly. I don't rate Sterling that highly but he's a beast in that team because they have so much pace and movement up top with phenomenal passers behind in De Bruyne and Silva. Sterling, Aguero, Sane and Jesus is so much pace and movement for any defence to cope with, - plus with their high press, they press faster as a team than we can hope to because they're so quick. On the occasion a pass over the top might be on for the opposition, they're trained to commit the foul and stop the opponent creating chances. It's kind of a system invented to exploit the flaws in the game. Refs rarely book attacking players for fouling opposition defenders and they have the ball so much they rarely have to do it.

Quick and skilled footbalers are the most expensive sort which is why we're finding it so hard to buy some... but City have bought 4. Technical midfielders with great passing ability are also hard to find. City have bought 3. Fernandinho finishes the jigsaw by being a defensive midfielder that can do pretty much everything - pass, tackle, dribble, shoot.
 

Gaz_Gammon

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2005
16,047
18,013
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