Spurs vs West Ham - Match Day Thread
- Thread starter Bulletspur
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Agreed. Not sure why there is so much anger and surprise at the result. West Ham played their tactics perfectly and in the end we were lucky to come out with a draw.
tiger666
Large Member
- Jan 4, 2005
- 27,978
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I will, cos I'll still be here supporting my club, not acting like a petulant child because we drew a game of football. Idiot.
Gb160
Well done boys. Good process
- Jun 20, 2012
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Wouldn't call us lucky looking at the balance of play, if anything they were.
1882andallthat
Well-Known Member
- Feb 2, 2009
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Whilst we have an excellent coach / manager in Poch, I'm right royally pissed off the way we set up and played last night.
West Ham had no other options, they had to play the way they did, they were dead on their feet and down to the bare arsebones of a team. The onus was on us to take the game to them, to isolate them out wide, to zip the ball across the park with ultra quick passing and to pull them apart and out of shape.
We are capable of doing this against other teams but why the fuck do we never try this against the Spammers. Time and time again we took an age to build up our play and to let them set themselves in place with two banks of 5 and 4, until we repeatedly gave the ball away on the edge of their box or in their box with stupid flicks or slow lay offs to their defenders.
Sissoko should never have been allowed anywhere near this game it was the wrong game to deploy him and Dier combined in. We never learn against this lot no matter how shit they are !!! We always allow them to impose their tactics on us its never the other way around, why we didn't see fit to press them within an inch of their lives when we had ample opportunity I will never know.
The way to beat the Spammers and get loads of clear cut chances is by quick passing, isolating them on the flanks getting quick ball to the flanks and behind their defenders, several teams do it against them regularly yet we never play to our strengths against them. Because my partner is a Spammer I get to see them quite a lot unfortunately so I regularly see how teams beat them, in exchange for going to Spurs games with her I have to also go there, I went to their recent game they had against Newcastle and they absolutely cut through their defence in the way aforementioned and created 6 clear cut chances and scored, 3 we're not talking Man City or even Liverpool who also regularly do it to them, were talking fucking Newcastle, if a team with their abilities can do it to them, why the fuck can't we ??? For all our possession and painfully slow build up did we create six clear cut chances, come on lets be honest did we fuck, and why, because we fell into the same trap that is always set by them against us, we were tactically stupid !!!
And if Poch is saying he isn't too concerned about a 3 point gap behind Liverpool well he bloody well should be, because of this fuck up anything less than 7 to 9 points against Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal and we can kiss goodbye to hopes of top 4, and realistically we have to pick up 6 of those points in one week against Man Utd and Liverpool. We really have made it difficult for ourselves, we haven't looked like beating Liverpool at Anfield for several years, and based on their current form if we don't significantly improve I can't see that changing anytime soon. If we only pick up 3 to 4 points in those three games or perish the thought, even less, that 3 point gap will be nearer to a 7 to 9 point gap, and if Poch and our players and fans don't wake up to that right now they bloody well should !!
Rant over !! The ball is in your court Spurs, now you need to seriously up your game !!!
West Ham had no other options, they had to play the way they did, they were dead on their feet and down to the bare arsebones of a team. The onus was on us to take the game to them, to isolate them out wide, to zip the ball across the park with ultra quick passing and to pull them apart and out of shape.
We are capable of doing this against other teams but why the fuck do we never try this against the Spammers. Time and time again we took an age to build up our play and to let them set themselves in place with two banks of 5 and 4, until we repeatedly gave the ball away on the edge of their box or in their box with stupid flicks or slow lay offs to their defenders.
Sissoko should never have been allowed anywhere near this game it was the wrong game to deploy him and Dier combined in. We never learn against this lot no matter how shit they are !!! We always allow them to impose their tactics on us its never the other way around, why we didn't see fit to press them within an inch of their lives when we had ample opportunity I will never know.
The way to beat the Spammers and get loads of clear cut chances is by quick passing, isolating them on the flanks getting quick ball to the flanks and behind their defenders, several teams do it against them regularly yet we never play to our strengths against them. Because my partner is a Spammer I get to see them quite a lot unfortunately so I regularly see how teams beat them, in exchange for going to Spurs games with her I have to also go there, I went to their recent game they had against Newcastle and they absolutely cut through their defence in the way aforementioned and created 6 clear cut chances and scored, 3 we're not talking Man City or even Liverpool who also regularly do it to them, were talking fucking Newcastle, if a team with their abilities can do it to them, why the fuck can't we ??? For all our possession and painfully slow build up did we create six clear cut chances, come on lets be honest did we fuck, and why, because we fell into the same trap that is always set by them against us, we were tactically stupid !!!
And if Poch is saying he isn't too concerned about a 3 point gap behind Liverpool well he bloody well should be, because of this fuck up anything less than 7 to 9 points against Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal and we can kiss goodbye to hopes of top 4, and realistically we have to pick up 6 of those points in one week against Man Utd and Liverpool. We really have made it difficult for ourselves, we haven't looked like beating Liverpool at Anfield for several years, and based on their current form if we don't significantly improve I can't see that changing anytime soon. If we only pick up 3 to 4 points in those three games or perish the thought, even less, that 3 point gap will be nearer to a 7 to 9 point gap, and if Poch and our players and fans don't wake up to that right now they bloody well should !!
Rant over !! The ball is in your court Spurs, now you need to seriously up your game !!!
mpickard2087
Patient Zero
- Jun 13, 2008
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That sounds suspiciously like the 'Poch hasn't got the players to do what he wants' excuse..... And, even if we've had a few injuries and other knocks, I just cant buy that anymore I'm afraid. He's in his fourth season, plenty of time to mould the squad with players who, maybe not all top quality, but have the abilities to do what he wants and play the type of football he wants. There's no excuse for having the creative black hole that was Dier/Sissoko as a cm2, especially in that type of game.
Japhet
Well-Known Member
- Aug 30, 2010
- 19,270
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My heart sank when I saw that line up. Maybe Winks, Victor and Dembele aren't fit enough but why not drop Eriksen deeper and put Lamela at 10? Hope we call Onomah back at this rate because if that was our best option against a team who had no intention of playing football we have a big problem.
UbeAstard
Well-Known Member
- May 31, 2005
- 3,373
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There was a discussion on Talk Sport yesterday on the back of the Tottenham to make 'Kane the highest paid...' headline. The discussion was about some of the unbelievable wages agreed with some players not at Kanes level. If other clubs can afford that or are so stupid, good for them. We have kept our identity by the way we do things measuredly and sustainable.
worcestersauce
"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
- Jan 23, 2006
- 26,944
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We restricted them to one shot a a jump in the air that hit a head and they scored one goal, I don't know what else a team can do, that would ordinarily be enough to keep a clean sheet, we also had nearly thirty shots which ordinarily would lead to more than one goal but on this occasion didn't.
Maybe it just wasn't our night.
And I didn't even mention the penalties.
Maybe it just wasn't our night.
And I didn't even mention the penalties.
shelfmonkey
Weird is different, different is interesting.
- Mar 21, 2007
- 6,690
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I still don't understand why we don't set up in a 3-5-2 against bus parkers, the persistence with two holding in front of the back four is mind numbingly frustrating.
Phomesy
Well-Known Member
- Aug 20, 2013
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Who?
I know you're not talking about City, Chelsea and Arsenal because West Ham did to them what they did to us. City were incredibly fortunate to get a lucky winner. Arsenal lucky to get a draw and Chelsea lost.
So who are these magical teams that Poch was supposed to emulate? Would they be, by any chance, teams that West Ham set up differently against?
West Ham played a back 6 out of possession last night. They never had less than a back four against Kane at ANY time. Even when we "countered on a break" it was four on one so no amount of "quick passing" was ever going to "isolate them on the flanks".
You're just talking rubbish. About a fantasy that bears no resemblance to the actual game of football played last night. Maybe you watched it on telly and never got the wide angle to show you that you're talking nonsense - but trust me - it IS nonsense.
But you're hardly Robinson Crusoe - seems there's a thousand posters on here that a) have no idea how West Ham set up last night and b) after 3 years of Poch's coaching still seem to have no idea about how he sets up his teams.
Just getting silly now. We should have won last night despite everything. We created enough to deserve the win. Move on.
Phomesy
Well-Known Member
- Aug 20, 2013
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Rightly or wrongly this is how Poch approaches these games AND HAS ALWAYS DONE SO.
The two in the 4-2-3-1 are there to ensure defensive solidity so we can play the entire game pretty much in the opposition half and thus force chances through overwhelming possession, numbers, and attrition. It means Verts (or Toby when playing) can move up to be another attacking option with Dier/Sissoko dropping to ensure we aren't exposed to counter. Something Sissoko did at least once last night - but people are too busy moaning about him to actually see what it is Poch is asking him to do.
You might disagree with Poch's gameplan in these situation but you should at least be able to UNDERSTAND it. It's not that hard or opaque. It's quite clear.
And as he's increased our points tally year on year I guess he's entitled to say it works more often than not. Just as you are entitled to think otherwise - but that's a different argument requiring some evidence.
UbeAstard
Well-Known Member
- May 31, 2005
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I understand what you are saying mate but its easy to be wise after.
The way we played all those games, we would not have won 8 out of 10 times.. we would have won 1 out of 10 times..
If you go back and check out the chances we missed in those games, I think you may be surprised.
So why we didnt win against burnley, swansea, west brom despite having lot of chances?? Yesterday did we create any 1v1 chance? Here's a surprising fact for you ..
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1882andallthat
Well-Known Member
- Feb 2, 2009
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I will tell you who, this season, Brighton and Southampton have beaten them comfortably so have Newcastle twice, Man Utd stuck 4 past them so did Everton and even Palace scored two against them to mention a few, yes its true that Arsenal and Chelsea struggled but that was only last season. On most seasons Arsenal regularly put 3 and 5 past them, last season West Brom Man City Watford Liverpool Arsenal and Southampton took them to the cleaners, the season before that Bournemouth and Swansea did as well as did the usual suspects.
In the last 5 seasons apart from the 4-1 hiding we gave them which should have been a cricket score but for the heroics of their keeper we almost always allow them to impose their game on us and rarely beat them by more than 1 goal.
Some of these teams that have given them a real hiding are hardly world beaters are they. Am I still talking rubbish ? Am I being silly now ?
As to your comment about isolating them on the flanks not being possible given their set up, I beg to differ with your opinion. I will give you an example, that quick flighted ball to Aurier in the first half was one of the few occasions we tried it, he nodded into the centre and those two passes pulled them out of position and if Kane had been able to control it that would have been a near certain goal, that is what I'm talking about when I say using the sense you were born with and quick ball to pull players out of position.
Yes it's true and I accept you have a point about them sometimes setting up differently against other teams but that's not always the case. As for having no idea about how Poch sets his teams up, again that's nonsense, they are not always set up the same way and neither should they be. There is always room for improvement and whilst he is great at many things, he does need to work on setting up our teams to better cope with bus parkers.
If you still think I'm talking nonsense then that's up to you, everyone is free to have an opinion, but my eyes and reading of games doesn't deceive me, there are many ways to take West Ham apart and many teams do it regularly, the results and stats don't lie, what frustrates me is that we don't seem to anywhere near as often as we could or should, with the ability of the players we have and have had at our disposal. Again feel free to disagree if you like and if you do please explain why !
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Phomesy
Well-Known Member
- Aug 20, 2013
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SO teams who they set up completely different for and played a completely different type of game. Come on dude....
I know your frustrated but its no excuse for making shit up. When West Ham came out at us early in the season we thrashed them. When they stuck 10 behind he ball under Moyes they frustrated us just like they did to Chelsea, City and Arsenal.
R_1001001
Well-Known Member
- Jul 12, 2007
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