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Same old problems, same old story

Lea

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2015
386
880
Every season, at critical moments when it starts to count most we fail to deliver. Playing against teams with 10 men behind the ball we have an abundance of possession with no reward, no bite, no meaningful goal to reward it.

Guardiola once said when asked about this type of football that Barcelona played at the time (possession based football) he said he doesn't relate to that as he said its meaningless if you just pass and pass and pass with no result. And so he was saying his justification was that there was always an end result, a goal or goals that win you the game.

And that is exactly what we are like. We pass and pass and pass and we're useless with the ball. We cant penetrate teams and beat them when they defend. We have no game plan. No other tactics, apart from pass and pass and hope they make a mistake. That's the difference between a manager like Poch and Pep.

This is Poch. This is his achilles heal. He has no great game plan or in-game tactics or ability to open up teams, change it up to get us doing something different that will make a difference unless the game (conceding a goal) forces him or us to. Sitting there watching the game I cant help but feel why after half time the impetus, the game plan and tactics didn't change? It always takes a goal against us to get us to respond. This is typical!

I've said it before, but the fact remains. Poch isn't a great manager. He's a good manager but not a great manager. The level we are at, is the best we will get from him, regardless of the players we bring in (unless we had world class players who could win you games).

He's alright, he's a true Spurs loving manager, he sees the club philosophy and the ambition and he wants it so bad..But he'll never deliver us a major trophy. Fact. He's just not good enough. Whether he needs more time and experience with other clubs to gain more insight or appreciation I cant say, but for us, he will never drive us to trophy success.

He's just not astute enough, just not tactically aware enough and just not clever enough.

The reality is we're stuck with him for now. And until we move into the new stadium and maybe give him 1 year after that to get us settled we wont swap him for another manager I reckon. That's not my personal choice, as I'd like to amicably part with him at the end of this season and get in a manager I feel who could get us to the next level, beit a Conte or an Enrique or Simeone, but my feeling is we will have to get used to playing Europa league again for a few more years, see our best players leave and another wave of a new breed of young exciting players being brought in to replace them or come through the ranks to give us optimism.
Every season, at critical moments when it starts to count most we fail to deliver. Playing against teams with 10 men behind the ball we have an abundance of possession with no reward, no bite, no meaningful goal to reward it.

Guardiola once said when asked about this type of football that Barcelona played at the time (possession based football) he said he doesn't relate to that as he said its meaningless if you just pass and pass and pass with no result. And so he was saying his justification was that there was always an end result, a goal or goals that win you the game.

And that is exactly what we are like. We pass and pass and pass and we're useless with the ball. We cant penetrate teams and beat them when they defend. We have no game plan. No other tactics, apart from pass and pass and hope they make a mistake. That's the difference between a manager like Poch and Pep.

This is Poch. This is his achilles heal. He has no great game plan or in-game tactics or ability to open up teams, change it up to get us doing something different that will make a difference unless the game (conceding a goal) forces him or us to. Sitting there watching the game I cant help but feel why after half time the impetus, the game plan and tactics didn't change? It always takes a goal against us to get us to respond. This is typical!

I've said it before, but the fact remains. Poch isn't a great manager. He's a good manager but not a great manager. The level we are at, is the best we will get from him, regardless of the players we bring in (unless we had world class players who could win you games).

He's alright, he's a true Spurs loving manager, he sees the club philosophy and the ambition and he wants it so bad..But he'll never deliver us a major trophy. Fact. He's just not good enough. Whether he needs more time and experience with other clubs to gain more insight or appreciation I cant say, but for us, he will never drive us to trophy success.

He's just not astute enough, just not tactically aware enough and just not clever enough.

The reality is we're stuck with him for now. And until we move into the new stadium and maybe give him 1 year after that to get us settled we wont swap him for another manager I reckon. That's not my personal choice, as I'd like to amicably part with him at the end of this season and get in a manager I feel who could get us to the next level, beit a Conte or an Enrique or Simeone, but my feeling is we will have to get used to playing Europa league again for a few more years, see our best players leave and another wave of a new breed of young exciting players being brought in to replace them or come through the ranks to give us optimism.
Remember the old say, be careful what you wish for
You said this ..
 

jimbo

Cabbages
Dec 22, 2003
8,035
7,432
Using the word "fact" to punctuate an opinion does not make it so.

What it does do is get right up my nose.

It also suggests you don't know what real facts are, thus invalidating your opinion.

Sad.
 

Khilari

Plumber. Sort of.
Jun 19, 2008
3,461
5,287
Frustrating result for all the possession and chances we had. But we were desperately unlucky too as a number of our chances could easily have gone in. I did think we should have changed our attacking element a lot earlier; easy to say in retrospect and I guess you could see why Pochettino didn't want to change things sooner - there were so many chances and we were seemingly getting closer.

Our final ball was disappointing; Aurier's final balls were poor quality as were Son's crosses on the whole (though he provided the bulk of the attacking threat) and Kane was unfortunate. Eriksen's corners for instance was also, once again a source of missed opportunity.

However in retrospect we definitely should have introduced Lamela and Llorente earlier. Gutting, but not a disaster. Perspective. It's Wembley and we've done ok so far this season.
 

Khilari

Plumber. Sort of.
Jun 19, 2008
3,461
5,287
Why? Are you Trump in disguise?
The slightest notion of someone saying something you don't agree with or like, you want to shut them up?

There's no Fake news here!!!!
Oh. I thought your opening post was a Fake Post, given how completely ridiculous it is. I assumed it was high level satire.
 

mezza84

Hungover
Dec 18, 2006
789
772
I suppose end product comes pretty easy with Xavi, Iniesta and Messi in the team...Pep's a genius though apparently.

Yes but pace man. Pace is what we need. Its so clear. Not technique and one touch passing. But pace to run into all that space left by a 10 men behind the ball defence.

Sod this thread.
 

Spurs72

Don't Call It A Comeback
May 20, 2008
565
484
So our highest ever points total and best finish in the Premierleague and league in 50yrs with a lower budget than all of the top 5 is failure is it? I’d call it achievement! Who do you think could’ve done a better job than him that we could’ve got as a manager?
You’re a idiot, actual idiot.

OK Lukespurs thanks for that, I guess in my book your the pot that called the Kettle black because I don't have the same opinion as you , you will sit there and call people names because yeah that will get a point across 100% , I have 1 opinion you have another end of discussion.
 

glospur

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2015
2,608
9,806
I haven't read the entire thread so I dont know if anyone already has :p but shall I compile list for a OP of all the times under Pochettino that we have absolutely annihilated the bus parkers? Sure, every once in a while he can struggle to either break them down or, in the case of the West Ham game, fail to take our chances, but it's more often thet we give them a right old spanking, scoring 3, 4 or even 5 goals.

This is not a problem unique to Pochettino or Spurs, all clubs and managers struggle with it on occasion. Lower down the table teams have to defend otherwise they'll get smacked. That's why so many teams do it, because it works so damn well if the side is well drilled.
 

kitchen

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2006
2,275
3,587
Yes but pace man. Pace is what we need. Its so clear. Not technique and one touch passing. But pace to run into all that space left by a 10 men behind the ball defence.

Sod this thread.

This guy gets it.

Sure technique is the most important factor in football but let's not try and pretend that pace isn't a huge asset to any attacking team. Ronaldo and Messi would be half the players they are without their pace... How do you get around a 10 man defence without movement? 1 touch passing won't open anyone up if the player can't get space away from their marker. They'll simply end up 1 touch passing the ball backwards. If a player has rapid acceleration and finds that little bit of space in the area or in behind the back line then it will create more goalscoring opportunities.

Technique is the most important factor in football, but when combined with pace and movement it's the most devastating. A team of Michael Carricks ( great technique but very slow) will score less than a team of Rahim Sterlings (questionable technique but great pace and movement ) across a season. They'd concede less too but you get my point.

I've already made this point but the reason City are so good is searing pace and movement in the front 3 and fabulous technique in the midfield.
 

Archibald&Crooks

Aegina Expat
Admin
Feb 1, 2005
55,533
204,721
Using the word "fact" to punctuate an opinion does not make it so.

What it does do is get right up my nose.

It also suggests you don't know what real facts are, thus invalidating your opinion.

Sad.
This sits right alongside 'end of'. Anyone using that one should have the word 'tosser' written on their forehead in bats blood.
 

Mullers

Unknown member
Jan 4, 2006
25,914
16,413
Sure technique is the most important factor in football but let's not try and pretend that pace isn't a huge asset to any attacking team. Ronaldo and Messi would be half the players they are without their pace... How do you get around a 10 man defence without movement? 1 touch passing won't open anyone up if the player can't get space away from their marker. They'll simply end up 1 touch passing the ball backwards. If a player has rapid acceleration and finds that little bit of space in the area or in behind the back line then it will create more goalscoring opportunities.

Technique is the most important factor in football, but when combined with pace and movement it's the most devastating. A team of Michael Carricks ( great technique but very slow) will score less than a team of Rahim Sterlings (questionable technique but great pace and movement ) across a season. They'd concede less too but you get my point.

I've already made this point but the reason City are so good is searing pace and movement in the front 3 and fabulous technique in the midfield.
To me Zidane was better than both those guys but he wasn't blessed with blistering pace. Sure pace is a great asset but I don't think getting Zaha or whoever is going to make this huge difference that people think. Teams will just adjust their tactics accordingly. It's a team game, so to depend on one player to break a team down is a mistake.
 

tiger666

Large Member
Jan 4, 2005
27,978
82,214
Sure technique is the most important factor in football but let's not try and pretend that pace isn't a huge asset to any attacking team. Ronaldo and Messi would be half the players they are without their pace... How do you get around a 10 man defence without movement? 1 touch passing won't open anyone up if the player can't get space away from their marker. They'll simply end up 1 touch passing the ball backwards. If a player has rapid acceleration and finds that little bit of space in the area or in behind the back line then it will create more goalscoring opportunities.

I don't disagree at all. I also don't agree that we don't have players that can do it. We aren't Stoke with a bunch of cloggers. We have attacking players with good acceleration. Where we could improve, imo, is off the ball movement and quickness of passing. It's that off the ball movement and fast passing that cuts open stubborn defences. We move the ball too slowly, it isn't people that can run fast that we lack, it's slowness of thinking more than anything.
 
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