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Player watch: Josh Onomah

Adam456

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2005
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But I think this is why loans are a poor way to judge players.

When we buy a player there is usually a general acceptance that the first year is a settling in period and performances won't be top quality or consistent.

But when a young player goes on loan he is judged harshly despite being at a new club and often being the first time he has played regularly as a professional.

I have no idea how developed Onomah is or if he is ready to be a squad member for us. But I won't be judging him on a loan spell.

Yes I agree they are under significant pressure to deliver quickly. Which is part of it I suppose. See how they deal with it. The trick is finding the correct level so that they can break in and get game time and confidence. I meant this really to people who think he should be recalled to fight for first team. Again I accept that Villa may not be best for him and we shouldn't be so trigger happy new judgement but he needs to prove himself somewhere
 

Krafty

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2004
4,768
2,099
Rose was absolutely terrible on loan until he was at Sunderland in the Premier League - remember fellow season ticket holders near me who also watched Peterborough that he was just not bothered when playing there.

Loans can be very good indicators, they can also be poor ones, but if the loan isnt progressing the player then it needs to be cut short asap.
 

LexingtonSpurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2013
13,456
39,042
I don't think a different loan is really an option at this point. Certainly not to a lower level Prem team. I don't think he has the time to earn a manager's confidence to get into a squad facing relegation.

I think the options are - likely - stick with Villa, or - less likely - come back to Spurs.
@beats1

What do you see as his realistic options at this stage of the season? He has not proven himself, at the senior level, as a CM. That is not to say he cannot prove himself there - I think, given time, he can do that. But, he is not walking into any squad in the Prem as a CM. Then, he has to earn a managers trust - how long do you think that will take? I don't think that happens overnight. So, if we got him a new loan by the end of the month to a Prem team, then it takes another month or so to get bedded in into a new squad - with an existing squad dynamic. And then, maybe he has 6-8 matches at the end of the season to make his mark.

He is better off coming back to Spurs and making the same push here, where we have a vested interest in his development.
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
Ben Pearce‏@BenPearceSpurs 31m
#thfc Pochettino on whether Josh Onomah could be recalled from his loan spell with Aston Villa: "Josh still continues there but we still have a week or 10 days to decide if he stays or we bring him back here.”


don't see the point in bringing him back if he's just going to get nkoudou minutes so he may as well stay. that said, i'd rather he wasn't with villa so if there's a chance to move him onto a better fitting club then i think that would be best all round.
 

'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2014
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Ben Pearce‏@BenPearceSpurs 31m
#thfc Pochettino on whether Josh Onomah could be recalled from his loan spell with Aston Villa: "Josh still continues there but we still have a week or 10 days to decide if he stays or we bring him back here.”


don't see the point in bringing him back if he's just going to get nkoudou minutes so he may as well stay. that said, i'd rather he wasn't with villa so if there's a chance to move him onto a better fitting club then i think that would be best all round.

That's the thing, if we can find another club to take him for the second half of the season where he'll actually get minutes then that's obviously ideal. If not, we may as well leave him at Villa for now. No point bringing him back just to hang around the training ground. He's more likely to get minutes with Villa than he is with us.
 

JayB

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2011
6,652
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Ben Pearce‏@BenPearceSpurs 31m
#thfc Pochettino on whether Josh Onomah could be recalled from his loan spell with Aston Villa: "Josh still continues there but we still have a week or 10 days to decide if he stays or we bring him back here.”


don't see the point in bringing him back if he's just going to get nkoudou minutes so he may as well stay. that said, i'd rather he wasn't with villa so if there's a chance to move him onto a better fitting club then i think that would be best all round.
I've been hoping we might be able to move him to Newcastle. Their squad is genuinely Championship level and with the takeover bid looking as though it's going to fail, they probably won't be in the market this window. You'd think under the circumstances they would welcome a loan of one of the brightest young talents in English football, and surely he'd learn more working under Rafa in a relegation scrap than he would continuing to play hoofball under Bruce.
 

WexfordTownSpur

preposition me arse
Aug 2, 2007
2,615
653
That's the thing, if we can find another club to take him for the second half of the season where he'll actually get minutes then that's obviously ideal. If not, we may as well leave him at Villa for now. No point bringing him back just to hang around the training ground. He's more likely to get minutes with Villa than he is with us.
The only thing I can think is Poch would rather he was training every day with our first team so when needed he can slot straight in! And if he not getting sufficient playing time on loan he might as well do that.
 

'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2014
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The only thing I can think is Poch would rather he was training every day with our first team so when needed he can slot straight in! And if he not getting sufficient playing time on loan he might as well do that.

True, but I don't even see where he'd slot in at the moment though, at least in his natural position. When fit, Dembele is an obvious starter and then either Winks or Sissoko play when he can't. Onomah would only really get minutes if all three of them were unavailable and I don't see any benefit to playing him out wide like he did when he first came into the first team. I understand that Poch likes to give players some time their initially to get them used to PL football without them having as much defensive responsibility etc., but now I think he's past that stage and needs minutes in his natural position.
 

Johnny J

Not the Kiwi you need but the one you deserve
Aug 18, 2012
18,124
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True, but I don't even see where he'd slot in at the moment though, at least in his natural position. When fit, Dembele is an obvious starter and then either Winks or Sissoko play when he can't. Onomah would only really get minutes if all three of them were unavailable and I don't see any benefit to playing him out wide like he did when he first came into the first team. I understand that Poch likes to give players some time their initially to get them used to PL football without them having as much defensive responsibility etc., but now I think he's past that stage and needs minutes in his natural position.
I'd genuinely rather he played instead of Sissoko. The only thing Sissoko has over Onomah is experience, but it's not like even that has translated into performances any better than "literally the bare minimum you could expect".

I support Sissoko when he plays but he's so lacking in basically every area.
 

'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2014
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I'd genuinely rather he played instead of Sissoko. The only thing Sissoko has over Onomah is experience, but it's not like even that has translated into performances any better than "literally the bare minimum you could expect".

I support Sissoko when he plays but he's so lacking in basically every area.

I agree with you, but the fact is Poch doesn't see it that way so I don't see Onomah getting minutes ahead of Sissoko whether we like it or not.
 

Johnny J

Not the Kiwi you need but the one you deserve
Aug 18, 2012
18,124
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I agree with you, but the fact is Poch doesn't see it that way so I don't see Onomah getting minutes ahead of Sissoko whether we like it or not.
True. Just find it frustrating that we have a very talented youngster wasting away while Sissoko contributes next to nothing, and certainly nothing that Onomah couldn't.
 

'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2014
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True. Just find it frustrating that we have a very talented youngster wasting away while Sissoko contributes next to nothing, and certainly nothing that Onomah couldn't.

Agreed. However, for me Poch has enough good-will in the bank so I'll let him have this one. He knows more about football than I ever will and he has seen considerably more of both players, and based on that he seems to rate Sissoko so I guess we just have to trust him.
 

Clark28

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2016
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would love it so much if we sent him to another championship team (who would actually play him CM) and he scores the winner against Villa in the promotion playoff final.

Then Villa fans could bitch about him one last time this season.
 

kd2000

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2012
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A recall might also depend on what the prognosis is for winks ankle issues. If its possibly ongoing maybe he will be recalled
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
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Ben Pearce‏@BenPearceSpurs 31m
#thfc Pochettino on whether Josh Onomah could be recalled from his loan spell with Aston Villa: "Josh still continues there but we still have a week or 10 days to decide if he stays or we bring him back here.”


don't see the point in bringing him back if he's just going to get nkoudou minutes so he may as well stay. that said, i'd rather he wasn't with villa so if there's a chance to move him onto a better fitting club then i think that would be best all round.

That's the thing, if we can find another club to take him for the second half of the season where he'll actually get minutes then that's obviously ideal. If not, we may as well leave him at Villa for now. No point bringing him back just to hang around the training ground. He's more likely to get minutes with Villa than he is with us.

I've been hoping we might be able to move him to Newcastle. Their squad is genuinely Championship level and with the takeover bid looking as though it's going to fail, they probably won't be in the market this window. You'd think under the circumstances they would welcome a loan of one of the brightest young talents in English football, and surely he'd learn more working under Rafa in a relegation scrap than he would continuing to play hoofball under Bruce.

Good article in the Times this week about loans. We all assume that there’s some master plan with loans, when most of the time it’s about which club will actually agree to pay their wages and a hefty loan fee.


http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2f35c474-fc3b-11e7-a64e-221285d37bf1

Agreed. However, for me Poch has enough good-will in the bank so I'll let him have this one. He knows more about football than I ever will and he has seen considerably more of both players, and based on that he seems to rate Sissoko so I guess we just have to trust him.

I think Guardiola is a coaching genius, but he didn’t think Sancho was ready to have a single meaningful minute of first team football, yet I watched him have an outstanding game for Dortmund last night, setting up a goal etc.

This isn’t about knowledge, it’s mostly about courage. It’s not about some of these kids being ready to play, it’s about the managers being ready to play them.
 

SpursD22

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2017
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I may be a bit biased now but I would like us to recall Onomah. You can’t rely on Dembele anymore with all the injuries, Winks is another player who also is injured a lot. Sissoko is at best average, Wanyama is more a DM (same for Dier). We should give him game time as a CM.
The problem is 1) Poch doesn’t trust Onomah as a CM
2) Poch seems to rate Sissoko and not Onomah
3) If he came back he would get minimal play time.

So what the more realistic thing we should do is loan him out to another club. Newcastle has been mentioned above, Swansea could use him, they’re probably the worst team in the league now.
What I would want is loan him out to a mid table Bundesliga side or maybe La Liga. In Bundesliga he would learn about pressing and in La Liga about possession based things. Work on his ball control, passing etc. But I get it that we want to keep him in England.


And another thing I want to say, I asked my cousin about any news on Onomah and apparently he has read my post about him and he’s not happy I posted it. He’s angry at his friend for telling my cousin that told me and I posted the information. He said he won’t get in to trouble by the club but he doesn’t want his friend leaking out information about him, he just wants to concentrate on his football and it could cost him in the future. So if you read this Josh I’m very sorry
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
I think Guardiola is a coaching genius, but he didn’t think Sancho was ready to have a single meaningful minute of first team football, yet I watched him have an outstanding game for Dortmund last night, setting up a goal etc.

This isn’t about knowledge, it’s mostly about courage. It’s not about some of these kids being ready to play, it’s about the managers being ready to play them.

If Sancho came back now, he'd be a lot more inclined to play him, now knowing he can handle playing at that level. When Sancho moved initially and he was on the bench people were laughing at him as Foden and Diaz ended up on the pitch. This move was always the right one, even more so when you consider how much talent they have. Competition too big and game time too small. This way benefits England.

I reckon come March people are going to be calling Sancho to go to the World Cup. I said before he played he is more talented and as good a most of the English attackers, I can name a few other players with more talent that are yet to feature for their clubs properly but won't be give that chance as they're 'not ready'
 

Snuzzy

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2005
2,281
2,659
I'd be very surprised to see Onomah recalled right at the time when both Wanyama and Toby are returning. Winks and Dembele were already injured in patches earlier in the season so that's nothing new.

I think we'd always put proven quality albeit in a def-mid capacity on the pitch ahead of a little more forward-thinking but no Prem pedigree.
 

parj

NDombelly ate all the pies
Jul 27, 2003
3,586
5,861
Bring him back, put him on our bench. If he can't get ahead of Sissoko then he not working hard enough in training
 
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