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The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

A

Anuth

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2008
745
2,346
I believe no one here wants to see 8+ youth players in the team. Honestly, there are not that many youth players deserve to be in the team.

For me, only Tanganga, Skipp, Bennetts, Edwards Shashoua and Sterling deserve to get the chance to be at least on the bench this season. yet how none of them on the bench for last night is beyond me. I understand we need to give some fringes players game time but everything seemed so wrong last night. We were 2-0 up instead of playing GKN, who we know that he has no future here but at least it can boost up his value, we use DELE!!!. Why? then we gave GKN 10 minutes which we could use those minutes for Sterling.

I love Poch as a first-team manager but he disappointed me as a coach who was previously praised as youth developer.
 
Krafty

Krafty

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2004
4,780
2,108
Yesterday's selection was touch strange/disappointing. I can completely understand the starting XI, we need to work on a two striker formation and having Kane and Llorente on the field at the same time. And I can understand playing Sissoko (but not necessarily in a central role) but to not have at least one youngster on the bench, and to put Alli on at all really, that was strange and I feel a little counter productive.

Very hard to see how academy players can progress to the first team now without serious injury/suspension issues (and even then it feels like senior players will be shoe-horned in first)
 
Spurzinho

Spurzinho

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2016
2,516
8,364
Its pretty clear to me that the club know we need to start winning things. We've obviously decided this cup is the one, we'd probably have liked to have gone further in the Carabao but...that didn't pan out.

If you're not going to win the league, and I still think we're some way off of doing that, and we're not going to win the Champions League, we've actually got a better chance of doing that but its still unlikely, then this cup is our only option (bar the Europa - which we could well end up being in next season).

We took the piss out of the Gooners for a long time for treating top 4 like a trophy but they had a trophy cabinet jam packed with league titles and fa cups. Our trophy cabinet its much more sparse and we're starting to polish the league table at the end of the season like it counts as a trophy. It doesn't.
 
matthew.absurdum

matthew.absurdum

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
3,734
10,126
Krafty said:
Yesterday's selection was touch strange/disappointing. I can completely understand the starting XI, we need to work on a two striker formation and having Kane and Llorente on the field at the same time. And I can understand playing Sissoko (but not necessarily in a central role) but to not have at least one youngster on the bench, and to put Alli on at all really, that was strange and I feel a little counter productive.

Very hard to see how academy players can progress to the first team now without serious injury/suspension issues (and even then it feels like senior players will be shoe-horned in first)
Click to expand...

True, but it may reflect that Poch does want this cup (perhaps more than the carboro cup). I agree with you with the Dele sub. However, you see what would happen if none of your star players were on the bench in Arsenal-Forest game yesterday
 
WindyCOYS

WindyCOYS

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2016
479
1,588
Spurzinho said:
Its pretty clear to me that the club know we need to start winning things. We've obviously decided this cup is the one, we'd probably have liked to have gone further in the Carabao but...that didn't pan out.

If you're not going to win the league, and I still think we're some way off of doing that, and we're not going to win the Champions League, we've actually got a better chance of doing that but its still unlikely, then this cup is our only option (bar the Europa - which we could well end up being in next season).

We took the piss out of the Gooners for a long time for treating top 4 like a trophy but they had a trophy cabinet jam packed with league titles and fa cups. Our trophy cabinet its much more sparse and we're starting to polish the league table at the end of the season like it counts as a trophy. It doesn't.
Click to expand...
Personally I'm still not sure - I don't think Poch is convincing whenever he's asked about winning a trophy.
 
SpartanSpur

SpartanSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
12,552
43,063
When you see Kane coming out today and saying we need to be competing for trophies for him to stay and then you see the Arsenal game yesterday you can see why we didn't take too many chances even against 'lowly' Wimbledon. In fact you could argue that the Son sub was key to getting us through the game, and Kane got the vital goals.

Foyth and KWP (who has been criminally underused IMO) got minutes, Winks and Edwards were injured and CCV and Onomah are out on loan.

Poch definitely deserves criticism this season on the youth front but there is only so much we can do year on year. I'd say Wanyama and Lamela (and possibly Dembele) needed game time so the only missed opportunity there is in CM, but even then Winks would have likely played if not injured. I would have had a look at Skipp over Sissoko but I think Poch was clearly rattled at the backlash following the Carabao Cup exit. He has to fight a lot of different fires as manager. Kane probably wanted to play with a weeks break before the next game.

Poch chose Llorente over say Sterling, but this is likely because Llorente (as disappointing as he has been) needs game time/rhythm as he is likely to be called upon in future games.

I think this is why Poch called for changes to the subs bench in the PL. I think it'd be ideal for them to add 2-3 spaces for development squad players only. The FA should be all over this.

Is Poch being good with youth a bit of a myth? Possibly but there are limits to how much you can do each season as a top team. I don't think the club puts much stock in handing out token cup appearances personally. For my money Poch has misused Onomah and especially KWP this season but that's about it, aside from the Edwards mystery that I don't think any of us know the full extent of. Skipp is clearly class but is very young and in reality Winks is still being bedded into the side in midfield (I think he is class and pretty much established already, but I think people forget he's only had 12 PL starts).

TLDR - Have sympathy and patience with Poch this season, he is fighting a lot of fires and there is a lot at stake. He just couldn't take a risk with the FA Cup right now. I know you guys have a lot of faith in these young lads and want to see them involved, but I honestly don't think the club puts much stock in giving development players early one-off debuts these days, as good an experience as it can be for these young lads.
 
SpartanSpur

SpartanSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
12,552
43,063
WindyCOYS said:
Personally I'm still not sure - I don't think Poch is convincing whenever he's asked about winning a trophy.
Click to expand...

Not sure in that we've made this cup a priority this season, or not sure Poch cares about ever winning a FA/League Cup?

I'd agree with the former but not too sure with the latter, I think he does want to win these cups but like other top managers wants to get to the latter stages via squad rotation.
 
W

Westmorland

Active Member
May 21, 2014
290
449
Tom Baylis 18 yrs played for Cov in the cup and apparently did well. We were linked with him in the summer . I think someone said we’d signed him but it never happened. Bit of a write up on him in the Mail. Has now played 8 times since debut in November.
 
Krafty

Krafty

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2004
4,780
2,108
matthew.absurdum said:
True, but it may reflect that Poch does want this cup (perhaps more than the carboro cup). I agree with you with the Dele sub. However, you see what would happen if none of your star players were on the bench in Arsenal-Forest game yesterday
Click to expand...

Certainly something in that, also that we don't play midweek, but if you can't have one youngster on the bench when playing a team struggling in League One, when can you?

It feels like Poch has a little mental block on it. A vicious circle is starting to appear: not good enough to be in the squad, wont get better unless they get in the squad. Maybe we will see more embrace of the loan system, which I am fairly happy with, but if Poch gives 30+ to an 18yo against the likes of AFC Wimbledon and we don't win, its not because of the 18yo!
 
C

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
I understand that a lot on here are very invested in our youth. But I really don’t think anyone could say with real confidence that there’s someone in our youth set up that you would consider now on a par with a 1st squad member. The only possible are Edwards/Nkoudou and maybe Sterling/Llorente. I know it’s not a plethora but Poch has given youth a chance when he’s thought it ready. It’s hugely frustrating I agree but I think we just have to accept they aren’t ready. For me if we are bringing at least 1 youth player through a season we are doing ok. This season is KWP ok not played to much but now fully integrated into 1st squad. Also think TOB will be with 1st squad when fit.
 
Spurzinho

Spurzinho

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2016
2,516
8,364
WindyCOYS said:
Personally I'm still not sure - I don't think Poch is convincing whenever he's asked about winning a trophy.
Click to expand...

I'd point to Spartan's post, quoted below. The club know that we won't keep Kane, Ericksen or Alli if they don't start winning medals. Top four is a necessary not sufficient condition for them remaining.

SpartanSpur said:
When you see Kane coming out today and saying we need to be competing for trophies for him to stay and then you see the Arsenal game yesterday you can see why we didn't take too many chances even against 'lowly' Wimbledon. In fact you could argue that the Son sub was key to getting us through the game, and Kane got the vital goals.

Foyth and KWP (who has been criminally underused IMO) got minutes, Winks and Edwards were injured and CCV and Onomah are out on loan.

Poch definitely deserves criticism this season on the youth front but there is only so much we can do year on year. I'd say Wanyama and Lamela (and possibly Dembele) needed game time so the only missed opportunity there is in CM, but even then Winks would have likely played if not injured. I would have had a look at Skipp over Sissoko but I think Poch was clearly rattled at the backlash following the Carabao Cup exit. He has to fight a lot of different fires as manager. Kane probably wanted to play with a weeks break before the next game.

Poch chose Llorente over say Sterling, but this is likely because Llorente (as disappointing as he has been) needs game time/rhythm as he is likely to be called upon in future games.

I think this is why Poch called for changes to the subs bench in the PL. I think it'd be ideal for them to add 2-3 spaces for development squad players only. The FA should be all over this.

Is Poch being good with youth a bit of a myth? Possibly but there are limits to how much you can do each season as a top team. I don't think the club puts much stock in handing out token cup appearances personally. For my money Poch has misused Onomah and especially KWP this season but that's about it, aside from the Edwards mystery that I don't think any of us know the full extent of. Skipp is clearly class but is very young and in reality Winks is still being bedded into the side in midfield (I think he is class and pretty much established already, but I think people forget he's only had 12 PL starts).

TLDR - Have sympathy and patience with Poch this season, he is fighting a lot of fires and there is a lot at stake. He just couldn't take a risk with the FA Cup right now. I know you guys have a lot of faith in these young lads and want to see them involved, but I honestly don't think the club puts much stock in giving development players early one-off debuts these days, as good an experience as it can be for these young lads.
Click to expand...

Westmorland said:
Tom Baylis 18 yrs played for Cov in the cup and apparently did well. We were linked with him in the summer . I think someone said we’d signed him but it never happened. Bit of a write up on him in the Mail. Has now played 8 times since debut in November.
Click to expand...

Bayliss has received very good reviews. His style of play doesn't seem a natural fit to me, given the way we play. He glides around in front of the back four acting as the coordinator and playmaker. He's not very aggressive or industrious. It would be interesting if we did buy him. Somehow if we did I could see us remodelling him into a sweeper type central defender. He's definitely got the passing chops for that job.
 
Hercules

Hercules

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2014
5,711
156,661
coys200 said:
Any knowledge of this Tom Bayliss at Coventry we are linked with? Another CM?
Click to expand...
Personally do not think he is better than what we have in that age group, light weight, not great pace. Ball delivery, and control very good though.
 
Hercules

Hercules

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2014
5,711
156,661
gp13tot said:
Bayliss in the limited i ve seen/know of him is definitely worth a punt.
Click to expand...
Not so sure there. Think Slipp will be much better, and there are others. I do not believe he can tie the laces of Josh’s boots for example, and some of us are split on him.
 
gp13tot

gp13tot

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
1,759
1,278
Skipp may well be better and ive high hopes for him but bayliss reminds me of carrick and that's good imo.

Amos wont make it here, nor duncan or marsh, whilst in the first team we have some serious midfield concerns at present. Taking a punt on a talent like this shouldnt impact on josh and skipp
 
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