What's new

The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

JB_Spurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 6, 2017
558
2,153
CCV not in the squad at all for Sheffield United for the derby today. Anyone know if he's injured at all?
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
Has the Development squad disappeared from OS? Few going on loan being updated ?
Have to say it’s funny when you look at 1st and 2nd year. How about 50% get talked about constantly and 50% Literally never get a single mention.

Goes to show we don't just rate everyone

Winks and Kane didn’t really establish as 1st team regulars till 21. Edwards is still only 19. KWP And Onomah 20. I think their progression is in line. No idea how you’d be giving KWP 15 game would mean dropping trips/ Aurier for 7/8 games each. I agree KWP has problem if Trippier doesn’t leave next season. But if were him I’d take a season loan next season. He may never get another chance with a top 6 club be foolish to throw it away before 22.

All those other players you've mentioned are significantly inexperienced, though thankfully CCV and Onomah have now been released to develop some sort of experience, every other club use loans as a method to gain experience, we did too with good results but all of a sudden it's not the right way forward. Not sure about that. WIthout any loan experience it appears their chances of getting chances are a lot less.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
We're at home to Chelsea (or West Brom) in the Last 16 of the FA Youth Cup, if we beat Bournemouth.
Of course we are. Can't we avoid Chelsea for once in a semi, assuming we get there and at least let us get to a final.

I'd back us to beat City over Chelsea
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
I love this thread but the way it often dissolves into "player X had played Y times by the time he wa Z years old" and those variables shift and wobble in all sort of back assward ways to make a meaningless point is very dull and tiring. You guys can do better.

KWP is probably the first youth player under Poch's tenure that I've looked at and thought we need to really put our eggs in this basket and bleed him. I understand getting Aurier but Trippier as our #2 and first choice RB always had major red flags (even if Trippier's performance at Wembley vs. Madrid is one of my legit favorites of this season).

I think the point is just to show the relative inexperience of our current players. When you consider most fans, response to playing an academy player is they have only done it against other academy players and so it isn't comparable to mens football, you see how important loans appear to fans, and I reckon managers too. Hence why so many managers and clubs with all their experience in developing players use loans. Something we have massively benefited from. In comparison our brightest talent, Onomah has only began to play his first league 90 mins at 20 years old trying to find his feet, while Kane, who still wasn't fancied after loads of experience was becoming a genuine part of our first team. KWP has even less experience than Onomah at this stage.

Winks and Kane didn’t really establish as 1st team regulars till 21. Edwards is still only 19. KWP And Onomah 20. I think their progression is in line. No idea how you’d be giving KWP 15 game would mean dropping trips/ Aurier for 7/8 games each. I agree KWP has problem if Trippier doesn’t leave next season. But if were him I’d take a season loan next season. He may never get another chance with a top 6 club be foolish to throw it away before 22.

The point about a Top 6 club is a good one, but the other question is how long do they wait. Our most talented prospects could be 21/22 and never play a league game for us, and have no other league experience under their name. When they get released they will have to play catch up at whatever club would be willing to take a player with no experience.
 

Matecheck

Free pawn
Sep 25, 2016
307
967
Goes to show we don't just rate everyone



All those other players you've mentioned are significantly inexperienced, though thankfully CCV and Onomah have now been released to develop some sort of experience, every other club use loans as a method to gain experience, we did too with good results but all of a sudden it's not the right way forward. Not sure about that. WIthout any loan experience it appears their chances of getting chances are a lot less.

Ya, I was very happy to give this new Poch philosophy of training-with-the-first-team-is-better-than-real-football a chance, seeing as the guy is very good at his job and obviously loves to bring through the youth. But nobody else does it, there is no precedent for it, and literally every successful footballer has become so by playing competitive football.

Now, we have an exception to the rule in Winks (although it could be argued that he would be much further along in his developmentif he had played more). And we are starting to pile up players for whom this unique idea is most definitely not working.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
Ya, I was very happy to give this new Poch philosophy of training-with-the-first-team-is-better-than-real-football a chance, seeing as the guy is very good at his job and obviously loves to bring through the youth. But nobody else does it, there is no precedent for it, and literally every successful footballer has become so by playing competitive football.

Now, we have an exception to the rule in Winks (although it could be argued that he would be much further along in his developmentif he had played more). And we are starting to pile up players for whom this unique idea is most definitely not working.

FWIW I don't believe these players need to go on loan, I've said that plenty are good enough to go straight into the first team squad or get chance off the bench or in dead rubbers, or against weak opposition, like Winks and Bentaleb that is the standard we are producing. But there is clearly a fear or trust issues with just playing players straight from the academy whereas if they go on loan it is like buying them as they come with ready made experience. So far it seems like Poch's way isn't working and he has conceded defeat in Onomah and CCV I just hope it works for some others.
 

Matecheck

Free pawn
Sep 25, 2016
307
967
FWIW I don't believe these players need to go on loan, I've said that plenty are good enough to go straight into the first team squad or get chance off the bench or in dead rubbers, or against weak opposition, like Winks and Bentaleb that is the standard we are producing. But there is clearly a fear or trust issues with just playing players straight from the academy whereas if they go on loan it is like buying them as they come with ready made experience. So far it seems like Poch's way isn't working and he has conceded defeat in Onomah and CCV I just hope it works for some others.

Totally agree. And I never said that loans are needed. Merely that all the evidence points towards competitive football at the highest possible level being absolutely imperative, regardless of whether here or on loan.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
oteh starting for qpr today, getting released seems to be working out nicely for him.

Really pleased for him. I'm glad he decided to cut ties off early rather than stay around at the club wondering what will happen. I think he knew his ability and took the jump and it's good to see its paying off for him.

As he's their player they will persist with him you'd expect even if he haves a couple of poor games. Hopefully he starts off well though has I think he was on fire for their u23s.

Miller is another I think should have cut his ties earlier with us. Other players like Hinds I believe will inevitably end up in a similar position. Quality, but will struggle for room especially if we brought in Steven Sessegnon. Heck there's a whole load of our 99 borns I think are in that position
 

LexingtonSpurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2013
13,456
39,042
So far it seems like Poch's way isn't working and he has conceded defeat in Onomah and CCV I just hope it works for some others.
I think time will tell on this one - I am not convinced that Poch has actually changed his views on loans and think that CCV and Onomah are just as likely to be sold this summer as come back to compete for a 1st team spot.

I hope they both make it here at Spurs, but I do wonder if this season was not about raising the value of both players by sending them out on loan. If I had to guess today, CCV will be sold, and Onomah loaned out again next season.
 
Top