Match Ratings Ratings vs Liverpool

Bus-Conductor said:

By this point I'd hit defcon 10 on the footballing despair-ometre, kicked the poof across the room (and this is not a bean bag poof, but one of those faux leather clad wooden things) launched the remote venomously into the sofa, from which it bounced across the room, sending the dog scuttling to hide behind Mrs BC in the kitchen, leaving me to incoherently try to assemble words like wankers, jammy, Scouse, ****s, fucking, bollocks, unbelievable into some kind of sentence.

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mpickard2087 said:

Can't agree with Vertonghen. He had a shaky first half himself, and he basically walked out of the way for Salah's 2nd goal.

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Gilzeanking said:

Watchout Lloris fanboys

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tiger666 said:

I hate comments like this on here. I thought we were all Spurs fan.

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Gilzeanking said:

Go along with general drift on here .

Agree with BC on first goal . What on earth was Lloris doing going backwards when Salah was through . Left huge areas for him to shoot at , a true present to an incoming forward .

See when Sonny was through..the pool keeper came racing out of course .

What could be in Lloris's mind to go and do something so completely wrong at that point ? Its worrying now . We're getting
Lloris issues coming up regularly . The 2nd goal ? , we'll give him the benefit of the doubt...but we also do that a lot these days.

I've been away and seen there's a thread (which I've not yet read) suggesting Lloris isn't god...garlanded in hate and negatives .

Watchout Lloris fanboys . He's looking a weak link at times these days . Hope its just a form dip .but its worrying as its been a while now .

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Bus-Conductor said:

Well that took us through the full smorgasbord of emotions didn't it. Anger, hope, elation, despair, relief and then finally, for me, sadness. Sadness that but for a little bit of tactical savvy, we should have won that game.


I know the last hour of that game we played well, can take positives, but the problem is, we all knew how the first 30 minutes of that game were going to go, it's a well rehearsed script that has found us floundering before. And I believe Poch sent us out ill prepared for the inevitable.

I'm not buying into the total criticism of Poch's away at top4 form. Away results of most of the top teams is not great against other top teams. That's hardly surprising, you are away at top teams, they are the hardest games you will play. And generally speaking our performances have been fair to good at the Chelsea's, ManU's, Arsenal's under Poch. But Liverpool (and Guardiola's City) are very different propositions now, and Poch must adjust IMO.

I'm beginning to concur with a theory proposed by @heelspurs in the match thread, that the home game tactical pragmatism that dismantled Liverpool so ruthlessly was maybe accidental, because Poch hasn't used it since, specifically against the two away opponents for whom it would be best used, ManC and Liverpool. Even worse for me was that Pochettino not only didn't adjust to this very tactically specific opponent, he actually made things worse by playing the daft ManC 442 semi diamond which just seemed to confuse our players more than theirs. To add to this he played the high line with Dier and Dembele in midfield, two players that really hate to be pressed, two players that do not dynamically, metronomically keep ticking, keep offering options for defenders under intense press. Where Liverpool were already suffocating the middle, and Kane was struggling for oygen,he added another body in there to suck up more in Son, a player who is a gold medal bumbler when he's put under this kind of pressure.

You know Liverpool will play a 433. You know they will fly out the traps. You know early on they will sucker you into playing the first ball out of defensive then swarm. They do this week after week after week and worse, they have done it to us before. As a result of this, and Poch's initial set up, we spent the first 20 minutes unable to string three passes together. The ball would go to the first defender, then the swarm, Dier put on his invisibility cloak, Dembele tried but was constantly getting caught taking too many touches, not helped by the fact that because of Poch's shape shift, nobody was in their usual place, and on the handful of times the ball managed to actually find it's way all the way to Kane or Son, they just choked on it and coughed it up.

I just don't understand why this seems to catch Poch out every time. Start the game ten yards deeper, maybe even play the 3CB to start (Dier can step out later if we want to switch to a more possession based game when Liverpool tire), make us wider, harder to get behind, play Eriksen in a CM3 to start with (like Dier, he can be pushed further up as the game changes if necessary) with Wanyama and Dembele or Winks. Start more pragmatically, don't try to play tippy tappy out of defence for the first 20 minutes, play on the counter, or even bypass the press and hit Kane, break their press gradually, then adjust as the game develops. If we get a goal on the counter we keep it up and keep suckering them on (like we did in the home game or against RM), if nobody scores and they start to tire of the press, we can begin to adjust to our normal game, eventually even pressing them higher and pushing up ourselves.

The worse thing that can happen did. We fell into the trap they set, as we have before, got flustered into fucking it over on the press and they go a goal up. You now know that whatever happens, no matter how well we play, we will have to come out and make ourselves more vulnerable, and even if we play really well, we will have to eposes ourselves somewhat. Just as we did to United last week, or to Liverpool in the home game.

The last 20 minutes of the first half we started to settle, Davis's tenacity and Vertonghen,Trippier, Eriksen and Dembele's composure started to help us get on top, a superiority we extended considerably in the second half.

Just as the first half was a combination of our ineptitude as much as it was Liverpool's efficiency, the second reversed. We were so much more assertive second half, but part fo that was that Liveprool's plan was to sit back, be more pragmatic, suck us in and hit us with their speedy break merchants, the way they love to do. The good news is that we are a better team than most they play, and they are not good enough defensively to do that every week and get away with it.

As much as we were good in the second half, I still don't really know why Poch persevered with the 2 up front centrally, it didn't help us at all, there was no Son inverting to create space for Davies to overlap into, he's so much better cutting in off that left side, running at the RB.

Eventually we got what we deserved, and I don't think I've screamed a goal home like Wanyama's thunder bastard since Stalteri's winner at Upton Park. It was that combination of immense frustration build up in the gut, we were comprehensively outplaying our closest rival in a three pointer at their place, but nothing was rolling our way, we still couldn't seem to create a good chance, then booooooomm. The mother load of footballing tension released.

Their now seemed like only one team would win this game, and when we got that penalty it looked like we were going to get what we deserved. Kane had had a poor game and this penalty capped off what had gone before. It was poorly hit, down the middle but too hard and low to give the keeper time to dive out of the way.

And just when you think things can't get worse than being cruelly denied such a valuable and rare win away at a big rival, they do. Fat middle eastern Messi goes and dances through our whole defence and still has the composure to dink the Limp Lloris biscuit. By this point I'd hit defcon 10 on the footballing despair-ometre, kicked the poof across the room (and this is not a bean bag poof, but one of those faux leather clad wooden things) launched the remote venomously into the sofa, from which it bounced across the room, sending the dog scuttling to hide behind Mrs BC in the kitchen, leaving me to incoherently try to assemble words like wankers, jammy, Scouse, ****s, fucking, bollocks, unbelievable into some kind of sentence.

Then the unbelievable happened. The best linesman in the world ever. Overruling the ref to give a justified penalty with 50,000 screeching Scouse baboons at his back was correct, but exceedingly brave. I don't even know what his name is, but I salute you Mr. Linesman.

Relief was palpable but swiftly followed by sadness. Because overall, despite his initial tactical faux pas, this was a game that we deserved to win, not handsomely, but definitely. We were bad for 20 minutes, tolerable for 25, largely excellent for 45.

I love what Poichettino has brought to this club. There is no questioning our bollocks and bottle any more, we play he best brand of football we have for half a century or more, and everything good about us is at his instigation, but I just wish he could show a tiny bit more savvy on occasions like this. He's very honourable, I just wonder if he's a cunning enough bastard at times.

Individual

Lloris - Piss poor. What the fuck he is doing on that first goal is anyone's guess. He actually steps backwards as Salah advances, giving him the whole goal to aim at, it's utterly baffling. Second goal I'm ambivalent about.

Trippier - This wasn't his best game I forward areas, Liverpool worked incredibly hard at preventing balls coming in, but only Dembele saw more ball and completed more passes today. His composure under the press helped us gradually get a foothold.

Sanchez - Let's not dress this up, the boy had a bit of a mare. This was the ManC game all over again, wrong set up, voracious early pressing exposed him badly, and he didn't cope brilliantly. Made several poor clearances/passes.

Vertonghen - Luckily for Sanchez, Vertonghen stayed composed. Outstanding game.

Davies - Loved his tenacity first half, it was his commitment that helped galvanise us that first half.

Dier - Really poor first 45. When the going got hectic, he went awol, but not before handing them a lead with a timid tippy toe. Games like this just don't suit him. To fast, to furious.

Dembele - First 20 minutes was tough, but at least he didn't hide. He did keep taking a touch too many though. After the first 20 he was pretty composed and had a decent last hour.

Eriksen - Like other, found that first 20 tough, but gradually got to grips with things and was good for an hour.

Alli - I actually thought he worked hard again today and contributed. Yes, he's not as sure footed as some, but he's not hiding anymore, he's more involved generally, he's improving as player, even if his productivity is down.

Son - Another pretty erratic and ineffective knock today. I don't think this role suits him, operating centrally in the congestion of a game like this just doesn't give him the time and space he needs to get the fucking thing under control. Once he has control he can be devastating, but if he can't make that first leap - to control - he's next to useless and often more of a hindrance.

Kane - This was about as insipid a game as I've seen from Kane. Barely touched the ball, made about 5 passes all game, first penalty was poor - to fast to give the keeper time to get out of the way if he was deliberately going down the middle, but what happened next just epitomises Kane's whole "Kane-ness". Undaunted, dusts himself off and coolly slots home the equaliser under the most immense of pressure.

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Bus-Conductor said:

Well that took us through the full smorgasbord of emotions didn't it. Anger, hope, elation, despair, relief and then finally, for me, sadness. Sadness that but for a little bit of tactical savvy, we should have won that game.


I know the last hour of that game we played well, can take positives, but the problem is, we all knew how the first 30 minutes of that game were going to go, it's a well rehearsed script that has found us floundering before. And I believe Poch sent us out ill prepared for the inevitable.

I'm not buying into the total criticism of Poch's away at top4 form. Away results of most of the top teams is not great against other top teams. That's hardly surprising, you are away at top teams, they are the hardest games you will play. And generally speaking our performances have been fair to good at the Chelsea's, ManU's, Arsenal's under Poch. But Liverpool (and Guardiola's City) are very different propositions now, and Poch must adjust IMO.

I'm beginning to concur with a theory proposed by @heelspurs in the match thread, that the home game tactical pragmatism that dismantled Liverpool so ruthlessly was maybe accidental, because Poch hasn't used it since, specifically against the two away opponents for whom it would be best used, ManC and Liverpool. Even worse for me was that Pochettino not only didn't adjust to this very tactically specific opponent, he actually made things worse by playing the daft ManC 442 semi diamond which just seemed to confuse our players more than theirs. To add to this he played the high line with Dier and Dembele in midfield, two players that really hate to be pressed, two players that do not dynamically, metronomically keep ticking, keep offering options for defenders under intense press. Where Liverpool were already suffocating the middle, and Kane was struggling for oygen,he added another body in there to suck up more in Son, a player who is a gold medal bumbler when he's put under this kind of pressure.

You know Liverpool will play a 433. You know they will fly out the traps. You know early on they will sucker you into playing the first ball out of defensive then swarm. They do this week after week after week and worse, they have done it to us before. As a result of this, and Poch's initial set up, we spent the first 20 minutes unable to string three passes together. The ball would go to the first defender, then the swarm, Dier put on his invisibility cloak, Dembele tried but was constantly getting caught taking too many touches, not helped by the fact that because of Poch's shape shift, nobody was in their usual place, and on the handful of times the ball managed to actually find it's way all the way to Kane or Son, they just choked on it and coughed it up.

I just don't understand why this seems to catch Poch out every time. Start the game ten yards deeper, maybe even play the 3CB to start (Dier can step out later if we want to switch to a more possession based game when Liverpool tire), make us wider, harder to get behind, play Eriksen in a CM3 to start with (like Dier, he can be pushed further up as the game changes if necessary) with Wanyama and Dembele or Winks. Start more pragmatically, don't try to play tippy tappy out of defence for the first 20 minutes, play on the counter, or even bypass the press and hit Kane, break their press gradually, then adjust as the game develops. If we get a goal on the counter we keep it up and keep suckering them on (like we did in the home game or against RM), if nobody scores and they start to tire of the press, we can begin to adjust to our normal game, eventually even pressing them higher and pushing up ourselves.

The worse thing that can happen did. We fell into the trap they set, as we have before, got flustered into fucking it over on the press and they go a goal up. You now know that whatever happens, no matter how well we play, we will have to come out and make ourselves more vulnerable, and even if we play really well, we will have to eposes ourselves somewhat. Just as we did to United last week, or to Liverpool in the home game.

The last 20 minutes of the first half we started to settle, Davis's tenacity and Vertonghen,Trippier, Eriksen and Dembele's composure started to help us get on top, a superiority we extended considerably in the second half.

Just as the first half was a combination of our ineptitude as much as it was Liverpool's efficiency, the second reversed. We were so much more assertive second half, but part fo that was that Liveprool's plan was to sit back, be more pragmatic, suck us in and hit us with their speedy break merchants, the way they love to do. The good news is that we are a better team than most they play, and they are not good enough defensively to do that every week and get away with it.

As much as we were good in the second half, I still don't really know why Poch persevered with the 2 up front centrally, it didn't help us at all, there was no Son inverting to create space for Davies to overlap into, he's so much better cutting in off that left side, running at the RB.

Eventually we got what we deserved, and I don't think I've screamed a goal home like Wanyama's thunder bastard since Stalteri's winner at Upton Park. It was that combination of immense frustration build up in the gut, we were comprehensively outplaying our closest rival in a three pointer at their place, but nothing was rolling our way, we still couldn't seem to create a good chance, then booooooomm. The mother load of footballing tension released.

Their now seemed like only one team would win this game, and when we got that penalty it looked like we were going to get what we deserved. Kane had had a poor game and this penalty capped off what had gone before. It was poorly hit, down the middle but too hard and low to give the keeper time to dive out of the way.

And just when you think things can't get worse than being cruelly denied such a valuable and rare win away at a big rival, they do. Fat middle eastern Messi goes and dances through our whole defence and still has the composure to dink the Limp Lloris biscuit. By this point I'd hit defcon 10 on the footballing despair-ometre, kicked the poof across the room (and this is not a bean bag poof, but one of those faux leather clad wooden things) launched the remote venomously into the sofa, from which it bounced across the room, sending the dog scuttling to hide behind Mrs BC in the kitchen, leaving me to incoherently try to assemble words like wankers, jammy, Scouse, ****s, fucking, bollocks, unbelievable into some kind of sentence.

Then the unbelievable happened. The best linesman in the world ever. Overruling the ref to give a justified penalty with 50,000 screeching Scouse baboons at his back was correct, but exceedingly brave. I don't even know what his name is, but I salute you Mr. Linesman.

Relief was palpable but swiftly followed by sadness. Because overall, despite his initial tactical faux pas, this was a game that we deserved to win, not handsomely, but definitely. We were bad for 20 minutes, tolerable for 25, largely excellent for 45.

I love what Poichettino has brought to this club. There is no questioning our bollocks and bottle any more, we play he best brand of football we have for half a century or more, and everything good about us is at his instigation, but I just wish he could show a tiny bit more savvy on occasions like this. He's very honourable, I just wonder if he's a cunning enough bastard at times.

Individual

Lloris - Piss poor. What the fuck he is doing on that first goal is anyone's guess. He actually steps backwards as Salah advances, giving him the whole goal to aim at, it's utterly baffling. Second goal I'm ambivalent about.

Trippier - This wasn't his best game I forward areas, Liverpool worked incredibly hard at preventing balls coming in, but only Dembele saw more ball and completed more passes today. His composure under the press helped us gradually get a foothold.

Sanchez - Let's not dress this up, the boy had a bit of a mare. This was the ManC game all over again, wrong set up, voracious early pressing exposed him badly, and he didn't cope brilliantly. Made several poor clearances/passes.

Vertonghen - Luckily for Sanchez, Vertonghen stayed composed. Outstanding game.

Davies - Loved his tenacity first half, it was his commitment that helped galvanise us that first half.

Dier - Really poor first 45. When the going got hectic, he went awol, but not before handing them a lead with a timid tippy toe. Games like this just don't suit him. To fast, to furious.

Dembele - First 20 minutes was tough, but at least he didn't hide. He did keep taking a touch too many though. After the first 20 he was pretty composed and had a decent last hour.

Eriksen - Like other, found that first 20 tough, but gradually got to grips with things and was good for an hour.

Alli - I actually thought he worked hard again today and contributed. Yes, he's not as sure footed as some, but he's not hiding anymore, he's more involved generally, he's improving as player, even if his productivity is down.

Son - Another pretty erratic and ineffective knock today. I don't think this role suits him, operating centrally in the congestion of a game like this just doesn't give him the time and space he needs to get the fucking thing under control. Once he has control he can be devastating, but if he can't make that first leap - to control - he's next to useless and often more of a hindrance.

Kane - This was about as insipid a game as I've seen from Kane. Barely touched the ball, made about 5 passes all game, first penalty was poor - to fast to give the keeper time to get out of the way if he was deliberately going down the middle, but what happened next just epitomises Kane's whole "Kane-ness". Undaunted, dusts himself off and coolly slots home the equaliser under the most immense of pressure.

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Flashspur said:

People don't have minds of their own. If others start saying he had a great game, everyone does so as well. I thought he was average today after some really strong performances of late.

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yusrisafri said:

Very surprised but pleased he took off Sanchez. That wasnt a typical Poch sub.

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Flashspur said:

Can someone do a compilation of Klopp's facial antics on the sidelines. Please?

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tiger666 said:

I hate comments like this on here. I thought we were all Spurs fan.

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