Player watch: Josh Onomah

First, no one is asking Poch to promote every youth player regardless of their ability, attitude etc.

Second, no one is asking Poch to start outstanding youth players (onomah, kwp, edwards etc.) every game.

Third, if you ask 10 youth watchers 10 of them would admit that our youth players still have much to learn.

Fourth, we support Poch and won't swap Poch for any other manager.

I think this must be clarified first before discussion or something like " Onomah is entitled to play games in CM simply because he is an academy player" would be posted again which is totally not constructive to the discussion.

Why do youth watchers think Onomah has the potential to become a first team player for us?

Some youth watchers have been following his development for years and they have seen how he played. Also, some reputable ITKs stated that Onomah was chased by other big clubs especially Citeh before he signed the contract with us, which shows that scouts or managers from top clubs also rate him. Last but not least, winning the U20 World Cup as a key player in the squad shows that he is one of the best in his age group.

What do we expect from Poch?

We would like to see outstanding youth players to become key players for us like Kane did. But undoubtedly, players need to work hard to improve and earn their place just like Kane. But before the youth players are integrated into the first team, giving them some playing time would give them experience and boost of confidence. I have to emphasize that "playing time" is not 90 minutes in the league, but 90 minutes in FA Cup or League Cup, or 20 minutes in the league when we are leading 3-0 for example. I don't think letting Onomah playing aside Wanyama and behind Eriksen for 20 minutes would make us throwing away a 3-goal lead, do you? I support Poch, but regarding the treatment of our youth players I have some doubts. I don't think playing Onomah as a winger would benefit him in any aspects. Also, I don't think loaning Onomah to Villa which plays totally different football to us would benefit him, although this may not be solely Poch's decision. If Onomah and KWP are players of Ajax, Valencia, Lyon or Monaco would they become key players for these clubs after winning the U20 World Cup? I can't answer that as it is solely assumption, but I am sure that these clubs would try their best to integrate them into the first team, perhaps their purpose is to sell them to rich clubs, earning a big profit. But who cares? These clubs developed numerous talents by giving them chances.

It is not about distinct players like Onomah, KWP, Edwards, TOB etc., but our club's reputation when recruiting young talents. We have already lost some talents in recent years (Kirby, Azzaoui etc.). If we fail on the abovementioned players, I am afraid that parents of young talents may hesitate before letting their kid to join us because they would think something like "Spurs do not provide first team exposure to great talents like Onomah/Edwards, maybe there are other clubs that can provide a better career pathway to my kid".

We are financially outplayed by all of our rivals in the league. Promoting decent youth players can let us to focus our limited resources on one or two world-class players. In my opinion this is the easiest way to catch up with our rivals. I am not asking Poch to promote youth for the sake of it, we do have many talents in our academy which can save us a lot of money if they can play a role in the first team, or sell for a profit like we did with Mason, Bentaleb, Carroll, Townsend etc.

SpursD22 said:

I don’t know if I should post this or not since I’m not a ITK and people won’t believe me but I’m going to do it anyways.

I have a cousin who used to live in Enfield and he knows someone that knows someone that is close to Josh. And Josh said that he felt like he get unfairly threatened at times and should’ve got more game time because he felt he 90% of the time he always performed well in training. He used to sometimes after training stay with Mousa Dembele to learn a few things from him, he looked up (still looks up) to him. And Mousa said to him that he’s the closest he’s seen anyone like him in terms of football qualities.
Poch speaks to the academy players from when they’re very young and he has a good relationship with Poch and Josh has multiple times said that he wants to play in the Dembele role but Poch always said that he wasn’t ready and that position is the most risk position. Poch is stubborn and won’t change his opinion quickly, so Onomah suggested for over a year that he should go out on loan but Poch disagreed and Josh got a bit frustrated since he didn’t even get the chance here. But he kept moving on. After the World Cup Josh came back earlier than expected to pre season just to impress on the staff, he went to the gym much more but instead Poch felt like Josh gave the wrong impression and came out a bit over confident and cocky. Josh spoke to Poch multiple times in the summer, almost demanding getting a real chance in midfield and Poch got a bit frustrated since he told Josh to be patient, so Josh pushed for a loan move and eventually Poch gave the thumbs up, Josh missed out on 2 Premier League clubs and got a bit mad at that but he accepted a Aston Villa loan move. Bruce and Poch had talked for some times and Bruce is a big Onomah fan. Josh says that he likes it in Birmingham, feels like he’s getting along well with the team mates but is still a bit frustrated because he doesn’t play in his preferred position, when played there at the beginning of the season he felt he did good and was progressing but Bruce prefers him higher up in the pitch because he can hold up the ball well and link up play. Josh said that he will 99% stay at Villa for the rest of the season and has been offered a permanent deal from Villa but he won’t agree to that, Villa has also been talking to Spurs about a permanent deal but we don’t want to sell and we would demand a lot of money. Josh wants to come back in the summer and fight for his place. Poch still sees a future with Josh but they don’t agree on certain things for example his preferred position. Poch doesn’t think he’s ready to play there but Josh disagrees. And Josh feels like he’s earned the chance here and wants to see a clear path for him here. He’s happy for Winks since they’re good mates but sees him as a competitor and he said that Winks was also a bit frustrated at the beginning. All in all Josh will stay at Villa for the rest of the season, sees a future here but is a bit frustrated and wants to get a real chance.

If you don’t believe what I’ve said just ignore me

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The thing that baffles me more than anything is that Poch hasn't even used him at CM in little to no risk games. He hasn't even played a minute there in friendlies either.

He must have a very strong belief that he's not going to make it in CM but I must admit having watched him I think the exact opposite. Absolutely no reason why this kid shouldn't be given pre-season opportunities in his favoured position. Perplexing.

WiganSpur said:

The thing that baffles me more than anything is that Poch hasn't even used him at CM in little to no risk games. He hasn't even played a minute there in friendlies either.

He must have a very strong belief that he's not going to make it in CM but I must admit having watched him I think the exact opposite. Absolutely no reason why this kid shouldn't be given pre-season opportunities in his favoured position. Perplexing.

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and yet you can't even put him in your footer squad for next season ..................

WiganSpur said:

The thing that baffles me more than anything is that Poch hasn't even used him at CM in little to no risk games. He hasn't even played a minute there in friendlies either.

He must have a very strong belief that he's not going to make it in CM but I must admit having watched him I think the exact opposite. Absolutely no reason why this kid shouldn't be given pre-season opportunities in his favoured position. Perplexing.

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At the very least, if he'd given Onomah those 10/20/30 minutes in the last 3 seasons when we were 3/4/5 nil up, some domestic/Europa starts in CM - next to Wanyama, Dier or Dembele - and pre season starts in CM, we would at least have a much better idea by now whether he is going to be worth persevering with or moving on and spending 50m on a quality CM.

This pre-season was just fucking ludicrous. The kid's confidence was sky high, it would cost us nothing if he was disastrous, and he even gave TOB time in CM. Almost like he was trying to make a point - perhaps that ITK above has some truth and Poch felt Onomah was being a bit too pushy and was putting him in his place.

Considering winks can’t even get on the bench now it’s very hard to See a pathway for josh. I’m 80% he will be sold.

I’ve changed my thinking slightly on this. It seems that the absolute minimum requirement by Poch is working super hard off the ball. This is the absolute minimum needed to give a player a chance.

Only when you’ve hit this requirement will Poch give players the match experience to show what they can do from a quality perspective. There’s a reason why Winks and KWP are getting in the 1st team squad but not Edwards and Onomah. It’s not by chance or down to Poch being unfair. They just haven’t ticked his minimum requirement quite yet.

WiganSpur said:

The thing that baffles me more than anything is that Poch hasn't even used him at CM in little to no risk games. He hasn't even played a minute there in friendlies either.

He must have a very strong belief that he's not going to make it in CM but I must admit having watched him I think the exact opposite. Absolutely no reason why this kid shouldn't be given pre-season opportunities in his favoured position. Perplexing.

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Completely disagree. I think we're trying to push him out his comfort zone to expand his game and toughen him up. It's all about how he takes to the challenge.

coys200 said:

Considering winks can’t even get on the bench now it’s very hard to See a pathway for josh. I’m 80% he will be sold.

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Your opinion seems to change by the fortnight. We're clearly thinking long-term.

Not doing that great from all accounts.

Cornpattbuck said:

Your opinion seems to change by the fortnight. We're clearly thinking long-term.

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Do they ? I was more optimistic in Summer. But since the clear failure of his Villa loan. And now the stunning upturn in dembele. Coupled with obvious fact we will strengthen again in summer. My opinion is pretty set now. The cold hard facts are young players probably get 2 seasons to grab their chance. And for all his promise Onomah has just not stepped up. I think if he gets another season he will be pretty fortunate. It’s gonna brutal from here. 5 top quality players aren’t even making our bench right now.

coys200 said:

The cold hard facts are young players probably get 2 seasons to grab their chance.

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You keep using this phrase. It's not a "cold hard fact".

from a business standpoint i don't see what we'd stand to gain by selling him now, he's not going to command a fee that makes it worthwhile to us. his contract runs until 2021 so if he's not going to be involved here next season then finding him a better fitting loan is the best solution.

I'll be honest, I'm absolutely baffled that any of our fans would question Poch on his handling of Onomah. There has to be good, genuine reasons that are keeping him from playing Onomah for us and we need to respect that. Winks was playing regularly until he got injured and was even trusted in the Bernabeu in a champions league game so let's not pretend that Poch isn't willing to take risks with young players if he believes they are ready and capable.

If Onomah was doing all the things that were asked of him AND he was showing enough quality to play for us in any position then he would be. He might have done the former but maybe not the latter yet, or vice versa. We simply don't know.

Without hearing directly from Poch we would all merely be second guessing as to what the reasons are that things haven't panned out yet and my view is that Poch deserves more respect from us than that.

coys200 said:

Do they ? I was more optimistic in Summer. But since the clear failure of his Villa loan. And now the stunning upturn in dembele. Coupled with obvious fact we will strengthen again in summer. My opinion is pretty set now. The cold hard facts are young players probably get 2 seasons to grab their chance. And for all his promise Onomah has just not stepped up. I think if he gets another season he will be pretty fortunate. It’s gonna brutal from here. 5 top quality players aren’t even making our bench right now.

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Cold hard facts are not probably. Stating an opinion as a fact doesn’t make your view any stronger, it makes it look like you don’t know basic vocabulary.

He'll be 21 in April. He's not super young anymore, and I did reckon at the start of the season that this year would be a sink or swim moment for him in terms of whether or not he'd make it with us. Preseason could be his last chance.

JonnySpurs said:

I'll be honest, I'm absolutely baffled that any of our fans would question Poch on his handling of Onomah. There has to be good, genuine reasons that are keeping him from playing Onomah for us and we need to respect that. Winks was playing regularly until he got injured and was even trusted in the Bernabeu in a champions league game so let's not pretend that Poch isn't willing to take risks with young players if he believes they are ready and capable.

If Onomah was doing all the things that were asked of him AND he was showing enough quality to play for us in any position then he would be. He might have done the former but maybe not the latter yet, or vice versa. We simply don't know.

Without hearing directly from Poch we would all merely be second guessing as to what the reasons are that things haven't panned out yet and my view is that Poch deserves more respect from us than that.

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Problem is no manager will give full disclosure on why a player doesn’t get in the team, and rightly so.

The only possibility I can see is another loan. To a bottom half PL team like say a Swansea. If after another season he can’t secure a place in a team like that then I’ll stick by what I said earlier.

taricco said:

I’ve changed my thinking slightly on this. It seems that the absolute minimum requirement by Poch is working super hard off the ball. This is the absolute minimum needed to give a player a chance.

Only when you’ve hit this requirement will Poch give players the match experience to show what they can do from a quality perspective. There’s a reason why Winks and KWP are getting in the 1st team squad but not Edwards and Onomah. It’s not by chance or down to Poch being unfair. They just haven’t ticked his minimum requirement quite yet.

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Like he didn’t tolerate Son and Alli not working very hard off the ball for much of the last couple of years?

Our whole forward press effectively went a bit awol for big chunks of last and beginning of this season because of it.

Alli's just getting the hang of it last couple of months.

JonnySpurs said:

I'll be honest, I'm absolutely baffled that any of our fans would question Poch on his handling of Onomah. There has to be good, genuine reasons that are keeping him from playing Onomah for us and we need to respect that. Winks was playing regularly until he got injured and was even trusted in the Bernabeu in a champions league game so let's not pretend that Poch isn't willing to take risks with young players if he believes they are ready and capable.

If Onomah was doing all the things that were asked of him AND he was showing enough quality to play for us in any position then he would be. He might have done the former but maybe not the latter yet, or vice versa. We simply don't know.

Without hearing directly from Poch we would all merely be second guessing as to what the reasons are that things haven't panned out yet and my view is that Poch deserves more respect from us than that.

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It’s really really hard to logic out why you’d have Onomah - a cm - on a bench with some great opportunities to bring him on but put Sissoko or Davies into a game you are 4/5 nil up in.

Or logic why if you are trying to develop a young CM, why you wouldn’t play him in a cm with Wanyama or Dembele to help him, or even in a CM3, but choose to play him in the cup as an ARM instead.

Even harder to logic why you wouldn’t reward a kid who’s just won the WC for the U20 by not giving him a friendly start as a CM, but again putting him on the wing. Again.

If it’s to see whether he put in the effort and worked off the ball, well he did, he just didn’t look like a natural wide attacker. Because he’s not.

Bus-Conductor said:

Like he didn’t tolerate Son and Alli not working very hard off the ball for much of the last couple of years?

Our whole forward press effectively went a bit awol for big chunks of last and beginning of this season because of it.

Alli's just getting the hang of it last couple of months.

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That's a bit of revisionism.

Very unfair to say son and alli haven't worked hard off the ball in the last two years, actually it's just not true.