Match Ratings Ratings vs Rochdale

I do like Foyth. Skilful player.

I wonder if there's a good CM (aswell as CB) in the making? His ball control is excellent.

Lucas was excellent to watch. I think he will offer something we have been missing, willingness to run past players and showed glimpses of clever passing. Considering he' not played much at all and was rusty, opposition considered, looks good.

The rustiness of our players back from injury was very telling. In some ways a replay might do them some favours.

Vorm - 5: Not much to do but pick the ball out of the net. Can’t blame him for the second; first wasn’t exactly nestled in the corner, though

Tripps - 6: Fine.

Alderweireld - 4: Woeful game. Topped it off by assisting their equaliser. £25m, anyone? Kidding...

Foyth - 6: Very skilful, confident. Will be some player. But he was lucky late in the second - tried to take on their attacker and would have conceded possession if ref hadn’t blown for a foul. Lucky.

Rose - 5: Better in second half but a while off challenging Davies (or anyone for that England spot)

Wanyama - 5: Same as Rose, but with Dier instead of Davies.

Winks - 5: Terrible first half, but had that one lovely moment in the second where he drove up the pitch. He’s got the talent, just needs the fitness back.

Sissoko - 6: Some heavy touches aside (Ofc), I thought he was decent today. Constantly taking their players on and created a good chance for Llorente in the first, and nice assist for Lucas.

Moura - 8: When was the last time we had a player like him? Skill, surprising amount of strength. Quick. He’s going to be a fan favourite. Full of confidence, too. And he’s still a way off full fitness.

Son - 4: Did nothing right. First touch deserted him and he seemed afraid to shoot.

Llorente - 5: Some decent link-up play, but also missed a sitter. Pointless playing him if we’re not going to lump it on his head.


Subs: Alli - 6 (seriously he could be taken out by a two-foot challenge from behind and he’d be accused of diving - did well, but Rochdale’s defending superb)
Kane - 6
Lamela - 6

I thought Moura showed a really good attitude. Great work rate and no shortage of quality. Impressed.

That wasn't easy at all.

Trippier can't defend his positioning for their first goal was shocking.

I don't know what has happened to Harry Winks. If he's not careful he will end up as the new Vinny Samways aka sideways .

Llorente needs a goal.

Moura looks quality very composed .

Danny Rose needs a succession of games to really get back to his true level.

Who would make the Rochdale team on this showing
Foyth and Moura................... ............................definitely
Dele Lamela,Trippier...........................................probably
Vorm,Sissoko......................................................maybe
Llorente, Alderweireld, Son, Wamyama, Rose ...No way

Poch....................................................................Depends what he looks like in a flat cap.

I think we might need to plough the Wembley pitch for the return.

Disappointedly angry and angrily disappointed.

On paper that starting 11 should easily beat a team from the bottom of League One but games are not won on paper.
If you pick a team consisting of 3 reserves(Vorm, Foyth and Liorrente) with very little playing time, 4 players(Toby, Rose Victor and Winks) returning from long term(ish) injuries and one recently signed player(Moura) who had very little playing time at his previous club then you are going to have a team that is not fully match fit and will have very little rhythm from never playing together regularly. Teams are made up of little partnerships (the 2 CBs, a CB and his FB, the midfield 2,the No. 9 and the No. 10 etc). The players in today's line up have not had enough playing time together to form these partnerships. Regardless that the opposition is a weaker team they play together regularly and are at home in front of their biggest crowd of the season in their Cup Final and so are going to be up for it. Why is it a surprise we struggle. Why did Poch not learn that lesson from the Newport game away. We've now added 2 unnecessary extra games to a crowded fixture list. It's always better to start with a strong first 11, get the job done early and then rest important players.
Having said all that I thought Moura was our best player who will improve us going forward. Not enough of the riches from the game peculate down to the lower leagues so I'm happy to see a team like Rochdale earn the money from both a televised game and a replay at Wembley.

St José Dominguez said:

I always give him an 8 when he puts in the same performance he always does but keeps getting picked in the same Sissoko role. It's my admittance that I clearly don't know anything about football.

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I can rarely knock his effort, but he can't score an 8 with effort alone. His pass for the goal was decent but he did little else of quality.

Trix said:

Thought Foyth AND Moura did well, Trip OK. Everyone else was either Meh or poor as piss.

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what did you think of Foyth's positioning? Caught out a few times.

How the fuck SIssoko is getting time in this team is anyone's fucking guess. Yes, he made the pass for the first goal, but that only put his account half back in the black for their two goals. His touch is terrible, his movement off the ball and the positions he takes up are atrocious. I am absolutely convinced this is about money and not football, because I do not understand how this fella gets anywhere near it.

Pochettino could see that they were outnumbering us in midfield but did nothing. Or maybe he hoped Sissoko would drop in and help. LO fucking L.

I was disappointed generally by Winks first half. And to be honest, I've always tempered praise for Winks, because I do have some general reservations about the kid (I've never believed his ceiling was what Onomah's could be for example, even if Wink's busy baseline could be higher some days) but he was very much not solely to blame for the first goal. Just watch what Sissoko does. Sees Winks desperately looking for an out ball, sees Trippier is marked on the touchline and instead of just taking two paces and offering himself inside, jogs to the one place Winks can't find him. It just sums up the effect Sissoko has on our football. Winks now has no choice at all, no options, he tries to turn inside and gets striped.

And just as Winks was actually starting to show a bit of enterprise and ambition second half, Pochettino takes him off and sticks Sissoko back into CM. It was a fuctardially stupid thing to do, because whatever Winks's deficiencies are, there is absolutely nothing Sissoko is going to do any better, he isn't going to pass the ball an better or more often, he certainly isn't going to show for the ball any more. And as we saw for their equaliser, he isn't going to press or win the ball any better either. He's just going to stand there and fucking point their player the direction of the penalty box.

Son deserves special mention too. Jesus this boy can fuck about on his day. I thought he'd put this kind of slapdash bollocks behind him, but this was vintage. Couldn't control the fucking thing, couldn't pass the fucking two yards, couldn't play simple through balls. How the fuck him and the other (above mentioned) fucking chuckle brother stay on that pitch 90 minutes is a mystery to me.

I'm not really sure why Wanyama is getting any stick. He got caught on the ball once, but that was because unlike some other ****s he was one of the only ones showing up for it despite getting pressed. And then he got a back header a bit wrong, but apart from that he was one of the few to keep trying too play, showing up for the ball (along with Moura) when other wankers were scurrying out of reach as best they could. He was also up against three CM's on is own for much of the game (up against four after Poch moved Sissoko) back into our midfield. I thought Wanyama and Moura were the only two to come out of this with much credit at all. Foyth was decent with the ball but his defending doesn't always fill me with glee. Only Foyth saw more ball than Wanyama - who saw twice as much as anyone else ahead of the defenders.

People also seem to forget the fucking dogs dinner Dembele and Dier made of Newport, at least we actually played some football and created some chances today, against a better side than Newport.

Trippier's had better days but did make a course le of vital blocks, and at least he tried, which Rose only did for the last half hour, which was half hour more than Alderweireld managed to look like he cared.

Oh, and I forgot about Llorente. Easily done.

So just to be clear, Sissoko isn't my scapegoat. Pochettino is. His rotation is all or nothing. His selections were poorly thought out. We seemed ill prepared again early on, and he didn't react to what was happening, we don't press teams like this for some reason, his (first two) subs were fucking incomprehensible, and he picked Sissoko and compounded this by leaving him and Son on the pitch and taking off Winks and Moura.

mpickard2087 said:

Most of the struggles, at Newport and again here today, are mentality related... We just didn't play at the right intensity at all. As a collective and as individuals the ethos seemed to be 'lets just get through the game expending as little energy as possible'. That approach at it's best saw slow, over elaborate play, at its worst you got the impression that some of them just didn't want to be out there and couldn't be bothered, full stop.

Individually they will get the blame and I think that performance surely has to put paid to certain chances of getting in the 'first team' over the coming weeks, but some of the spotlight has to go on the manager as well for me..... His casual indifference, often bordering on outright dismissal, of the cup competitions has to I think drip down and have an effect on the players, because it's just a pattern of these performances being lacking in any tempo, vim and vigour. After the scare of the last round, you'd expect the team to come out alert and awake and with its sleeves rolled up ready to get to work, but we got more of the same. I just don't see how the team can come out with that attitude, again, and everyone has to take the blame. Players and Coaches.

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That's pretty much where I am but am getting a great big dildo bashed across my head over it and am still not entirely sure what's wrong with saying it

Bus-Conductor said:

How the fuck SIssoko is getting time in this team is anyone's fucking guess. Yes, he made the pass for the first goal, but that only put his account half back in the black for their two goals. His touch is terrible, his movement off the ball and the positions he takes up are atrocious. I am absolutely convinced this is about money and not football, because I do not understand how this fella gets anywhere near it.

Pochettino could see that they were outnumbering us in midfield but did nothing. Or maybe he hoped Sissoko would drop in and help. LO fucking L.

I was disappointed generally by Winks first half. And to be honest, I've always tempered praise for Winks, because I do have some general reservations about the kid (I've never believed his ceiling was what Onomah's could be for example, even if Wink's busy baseline could be higher some days) but he was very much not solely to blame for the first goal. Just watch what Sissoko does. Sees Winks desperately looking for an out ball, sees Trippier is marked on the touchline and instead of just taking two paces and offering himself inside, jogs to the one place Winks can't find him. It just sums up the effect Sissoko has on our football. Winks now has no choice at all, no options, he tries to turn inside and gets striped.

And just as Winks was actually starting to show a bit of enterprise and ambition second half, Pochettino takes him off and sticks Sissoko back into CM. It was a fuctardially stupid thing to do, because whatever Winks's deficiencies are, there is absolutely nothing Sissoko is going to do any better, he isn't going to pass the ball an better or more often, he certainly isn't going to show for the ball any more. And as we saw for their equaliser, he isn't going to press or win the ball any better either. He's just going to stand there and fucking point their player the direction of the penalty box.

Son deserves special mention too. Jesus this boy can fuck about on his day. I thought he'd put this kind of slapdash bollocks behind him, but this was vintage. Couldn't control the fucking thing, couldn't pass the fucking two yards, couldn't play simple through balls. How the fuck him and the other (above mentioned) fucking chuckle brother stay on that pitch 90 minutes is a mystery to me.

I'm not really sure why Wanyama is getting any stick. He got caught on the ball once, but that was because unlike some other ****s he was one of the only ones showing up for it despite getting pressed. And then he got a back header a bit wrong, but apart from that he was one of the few to keep trying too play, showing up for the ball (along with Moura) when other wankers were scurrying out of reach as best they could. He was also up against three CM's on is own for much of the game (up against four after Poch moved Sissoko) back into our midfield. I thought Wanyama and Moura were the only two to come out of this with much credit at all. Foyth was decent with the ball but his defending doesn't always fill me with glee. Only Foyth saw more ball than Wanyama - who saw twice as much as anyone else ahead of the defenders.

People also seem to forget the fucking dogs dinner Dembele and Dier made of Newport, at least we actually played some football and created some chances today, against a better side than Newport.

Trippier's had better days but at least he tried, which Rose only did for the last half hour, which was half hour more than Alderweireld managed to look like he cared.

Oh, and I forgot about Llorente. Easily done.

So just to be clear, Sissoko isn't my scapegoat. Pochettino is. His rotation is all or nothing. His selections were poorly thought out. We seemed ill prepared again early on, and he didn't react to what was happening, we don't press teams like this for some reason, his (first two) subs were fucking incomprehensible, and he picked Sissoko and compounded this by leaving him and Son on the pitch and taking off Winks and Moura.

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I don't think sissoko was directly responsible as at least for the first goal. After re-watching the first goal, it was rose who was too high up on the pitch. Wanyama was forced to cover his position (and unsuccessful). And Foyth also made an unsuccessful tackle, and then he was returning to his position too late. Foyth made Toby in a real trouble to pick who he should mark. No sure whether Sissoko is equally blameable than winks, foyth, rose or even vorm in the first goal conceded. Sissoko was the more attacking player in the 3cm system in the first half. And he was trying to make a run to attract an opponent's dm, so that winks could have more room to pass (Son was thus available to receive the ball when Winks made the mistake, and that is partly due to sissoko's run).

Sissoko was partly blameable for not pressing the crosser in the second goal conceded, but so did Trippier in the same position with sissoko at that moment. After re-watching the second goal, I think Toby should be directly responsible to that goal conceded.

Sissoko is not a very good player. But it is not very fair to give him a harsh comment today (especially he has an assist and a potential assist for that llorente's miss). He was not strictly a dm today before winks was gone. He was playing according to Poch's instruction I guess, and I think he is not very bad (but not very good, true).

Just admit that Sissoko is your scapegoat. He is not the worst player on the pitch by a mile. And it is very unfair to say that he has a bad positioning. His first touch, passing, shooting are very poor. But I think his off ball movement is okay. And if you think his positioning are bad, maybe it is because Poch wants him to be more up front than wanyama and winks in the first half

I want Sissoko to be sold in the summer. But sometimes I think the comments on him are too harsh.

DenverSpur said:

On paper that starting 11 should easily beat a team from the bottom of League One but games are not won on paper.
If you pick a team consisting of 3 reserves(Vorm, Foyth and Liorrente) with very little playing time, 4 players(Toby, Rose Victor and Winks) returning from long term(ish) injuries and one recently signed player(Moura) who had very little playing time at his previous club then you are going to have a team that is not fully match fit and will have very little rhythm from never playing together regularly. Teams are made up of little partnerships (the 2 CBs, a CB and his FB, the midfield 2,the No. 9 and the No. 10 etc). The players in today's line up have not had enough playing time together to form these partnerships. Regardless that the opposition is a weaker team they play together regularly and are at home in front of their biggest crowd of the season in their Cup Final and so are going to be up for it. Why is it a surprise we struggle. Why did Poch not learn that lesson from the Newport game away. We've now added 2 unnecessary extra games to a crowded fixture list. It's always better to start with a strong first 11, get the job done early and then rest important players.
Having said all that I thought Moura was our best player who will improve us going forward. Not enough of the riches from the game peculate down to the lower leagues so I'm happy to see a team like Rochdale earn the money from both a televised game and a replay at Wembley.

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Great post, spot on. More people need to realise this.

Archibald&Crooks said:

That's pretty much where I am but am getting a great big dildo bashed across my head over it and am still not entirely sure what's wrong with saying it

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You more than anyone should know the score, it's usually not the war between a) knee jerk bollocks and b) unrelenting positivity that attracts the most ire, its c) nuanced criticism that takes the flack!

Vorm 6 ok

Trippier 7.5 many last ditch saving headers
Foyth 8 did very well, nearly MOTM
Toby 5 poor from someone with such high standards but obvs not match fit yet
Rose 6 poor first half, good 2nd

Wanyama 5 - love the guy but he’s still
Not quite at the races after this injury. Got caught out a few times again today.

Sissoko 6 - decent showing and good effort and nice assist. Still managed to fall over his feet twice, baffles me how clumsy he looks.

Lucas 9 MOTM what more do you want on your debut in a tough away cup tie! What a baller and such good effort also.

Son 6 erratic from him today

Llorente 6 did ok actually today, some nice link play. Should’ve taken his chance and his lack of pressing is frustrating but we should’ve known that was what we were buying when we signed him.

All in all a tough cup tie with lots of players not match fit so good were still in it and hopefully Home leg will be more comfortable.

COYS

SpursAddict said:

Vorm 5
Trippier 7
Toby 6
Foyth 8
Rose 6
Wanyama 6
Winks 5
Sissoko 6
Son 5
Lucas 8
Llorente 4

Kane, Alli, Lamela - 7

4 = Poor
5 = Below Average
6 = Ok
7 = Good
8 = Very Good

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Loving the Key for the marks. How about 1-3 and 9-10 ?

17 votes for Rose? Do his family all post on this forum?

jeremystorey said:

No one except for Moura played above a fIve or six.

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I thought only Toby, Winks and Son played poorly. All the rest played well especially in the second half.

Lucas and Foyth the only positives from that game.

That should put paid to the Wanyama v Dier debate for a while. Wanyama made more errors in a half against fucking Rochdale than Dier made in the last run of games against the likes of Juve, United, Arsenal, Liverpool etc. If Dier put in that performance he would be getting pelters. He's clearly first choice DM atm and for good reason.

Son was dreadful as well. Not a good time to do it when a new signing in the same area of teh pitch is MotM.

I liked Llorente's target man play actually, but he obviosuly should have scored. We don't use him as well as we should. Tapping it around the back on a bobbly pitch when Llorente was winning everything in the air was fucking frustrating.

Everyone else was pretty poor. I have some sympathy for Winks with their first goal. He didnt really have anywhere to go.


Another game too that demonstrates just how much we miss Christian Eriksen when he doesn't play. Everything looked frantic and slapdash without his calculating, precise midfield presence. Surely there are no more doubts about the importance of that man to our team.

...today proved once and for all that Sissoko is a far better footballer than Winks...
...far better...
COYS

kaz Hirai said:

Foyth is gonna be some player it looks. Great skills on the ball and composure, but a good defender too

Definitely a Vertonghen than a chriches

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Whilst I agree he is still very raw and has a lot to learn about positioning. Hopefully he will continue to improve as he and Sanchez are going to make a great partnership in the future if they keep developing