What's new

The Rugby Thread

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,232
57,392
Not anti English at all. I’ve got loads of time for a lot of English players (past and present) coaches and fans.

From my experience in the SH many fans out there regard him as average who got lucky with a WC once. I’ve never heard any Kiwi mates of mine or people I’ve played with/against hold him in any high regard at all. Getting smashed in 05 kinda confirmed that for a lot of people.

Understandably he’s loved by you and rightly so. Just talking from my own experience.


What a load of bollocks! I've heard it all now.
 

SugarRay

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2011
7,984
11,110
Obviously getting a touch off subject here, but surely anyone who believes Woodward was average and ‘got lucky’ with a WC win, as opposed to putting in a plan of action which took five years to realise, isn’t really worth listening to when it comes to rugby!? Your SH pals that have that view are obviously blinded by bias or just a bit divvy I reckon!

Like him or loath him, no NH coach has come close to matching his achievement.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
16,985
30,495
What a load of bollocks! I've heard it all now.

Anecdotal I know but having a brother who played out in NZ and Australia for over 5 years (and having got out there quite a bit) and having played and toured myself since I was a kid I’ve met quite a few to say the least.

I take it your experience when you played tells you a different story?
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,513
Woodward was good for his time, as he was a big/deep ambitious thinker who wasn't afraid to try things and always look to be better. This was on top of the fact that he knew something about rugby, and what sort of players he wanted for the game he wanted to play and, going back to being a thinker, how to build a squad and have different options for different scenarios/conditions.

With that approach you get some good ideas, you also will get some barmy ones. He had a good coaching team though and a group of senior established players who could 'filter' it well enough to be successful. Everything was geared to that World Cup though (it's widely said that the team limped over the line and was on the way down after peaking in 01-02) and fell apart after that and he was done as a coach from that point. Still, the achievement speaks for itself, and there is no way it was a lucky win as that team had established itself over the years previous. 2007 would have been a lucky win!!

These days Woodward the pundit has no filter, and he has a role to do on TV in any case. I can see why rugby fans might think he is a bit of a bluffer and an idiot but I'm fairly sure he doesn't really believe half the stuff he says/writes in the media.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
16,985
30,495
Obviously getting a touch off subject here, but surely anyone who believes Woodward was average and ‘got lucky’ with a WC win, as opposed to putting in a plan of action which took five years to realise, isn’t really worth listening to when it comes to rugby!? Your SH pals that have that view are obviously blinded by bias or just a bit divvy I reckon!

Like him or loath him, no NH coach has come close to matching his achievement.

A lot of these aren’t pals, FWIW just people I’ve met in clubs in the SH and obviously lots of info from my brother.

To be fair, my experience of Kiwis in general (media and fans) is that they don’t really rate anyone outside of NZ. I think the 2 different approaches from Gatland and Woodward in their respective tours of NZ couldn’t be more different though in terms of embracing a culture and such.

And Ozzie’s, well, they’re ozzies are t they. You’ll never get any love from them

For the record I don’t think It was luck. I don’t think you can win a WC on luck. That England team was immense. Would’ve liked to see the match up with NZ though.
 

Arnoldtoo

The thinking ape's ape
May 18, 2006
35,338
54,974
Six Nations: World Rugby confirm TMO error in England v Wales match

"World Rugby has clarified to the Wales team management as part of the usual review process with teams that the TMO made an error in the application of law during the England versus Wales match at Twickenham."


Anyone remember this incident?
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
16,985
30,495
Six Nations: World Rugby confirm TMO error in England v Wales match

"World Rugby has clarified to the Wales team management as part of the usual review process with teams that the TMO made an error in the application of law during the England versus Wales match at Twickenham."


Anyone remember this incident?

Nice to have the confirmation of what everyone knew not that it means anything. These things happen and will happen many more times I’m sure.

Good to see Biggar and Faletau back in training. Williams played 60mins for Saracens too.
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
48,105
47,061
Six Nations: World Rugby confirm TMO error in England v Wales match

"World Rugby has clarified to the Wales team management as part of the usual review process with teams that the TMO made an error in the application of law during the England versus Wales match at Twickenham."


Anyone remember this incident?

Blimey.

That's going to make a lot of TMOs start shitting themselves.

If I was them I'd definitely be asking for the frame by frame footage now.

As @E17yid says we all know that last part was called wrong, but if England wanted to be petty they could then go back to the knock on and say that should have been looked at as well.

It's a hard knock life for those TMOs in their shipping containers!
 

Arnoldtoo

The thinking ape's ape
May 18, 2006
35,338
54,974
Blimey.

That's going to make a lot of TMOs start shitting themselves.

If I was them I'd definitely be asking for the frame by frame footage now.

As @E17yid says we all know that last part was called wrong, but if England wanted to be petty they could then go back to the knock on and say that should have been looked at as well.

It's a hard knock life for those TMOs in their shipping containers!

I've only just watched it, and the slow mo does indeed show a knock-on. I don't think it will feature in Welsh pub discussions though!

But time to consign it to history methinks.

If we have to choose a single incident, better all round to credit the win to a brilliant tackle rather than a contentious decision.
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
48,105
47,061
I've only just watched it, and the slow mo does indeed show a knock-on. I don't think it will feature in Welsh pub discussions though!

But time to consign it to history methinks.

If we have to choose a single incident, better all round to credit the win to a brilliant tackle rather than a contentious decision.

Yeah that's why it doesn't seem particularly sensible to throw the TMO under the bus in this situation. The likes of Eddie will look at that and start asking for similar apologies every time a TMO decision is contentious (such as the knock on by Evans) so it sets an interesting precedent.

It certainly won't speed things up on the TMO front as they'll be making even more sure they're right on every decision after this.

On a positive note for England, Hughes looked pretty decent for Wasps at the weekend, as did Sinckler (unlike all other Quins players).

On a negative note it looks like Simmonds is out.

On a positive Quins note Eddie has picked another of our youngsters from relative obscurity to put him in an England squad.

On a negative Quins note that probably means we'll have to pay him more money.

Damn you Eddie!
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
16,985
30,495
Initially the ref asked to clarify the knock on and grounding so I think it’s safe to assume World Rugby reviewed both. That knock on is not clear and obvious at all hence why Guscott is the only person plugging it and every pundit, Welsh or English, are still saying it’s a try, including World Rugby.

I could be wrong, maybe world rugby just looked at the grounding.

This is actually getting boring now, though.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
16,985
30,495
Yeah that's why it doesn't seem particularly sensible to throw the TMO under the bus in this situation. The likes of Eddie will look at that and start asking for similar apologies every time a TMO decision is contentious (such as the knock on by Evans) so it sets an interesting precedent.

It certainly won't speed things up on the TMO front as they'll be making even more sure they're right on every decision after this.

On a positive note for England, Hughes looked pretty decent for Wasps at the weekend, as did Sinckler (unlike all other Quins players).

On a negative note it looks like Simmonds is out.

On a positive Quins note Eddie has picked another of our youngsters from relative obscurity to put him in an England squad.

On a negative Quins note that probably means we'll have to pay him more money.

Damn you Eddie!

On the bold bit, is that this kid Moore?
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
48,105
47,061
Initially the ref asked to clarify the knock on and grounding so I think it’s safe to assume World Rugby reviewed both. That knock on is not clear and obvious at all hence why Guscott is the only person plugging it and every pundit, Welsh or English, are still saying it’s a try, including World Rugby.

I could be wrong, maybe world rugby just looked at the grounding.

This is actually getting boring now, though.

I think World Rugby are just talking about the grounding, because I'm not even sure if the TMO had the ability to look at the slo-mo that showed the knock on.

They are saying the TMO got the law wrong on the grounding which does appear to be the case. He didn't even look at the knock on other than a cursory glance, but I don't know if that's because he didn't have that slower version available.

My point is that if you're going to chastise the TMO for getting the grounding wrong, someone in the England camp would be equally justified in going back and saying something about the knock on that was missed. Or someone from Scotland could complain about the forward pass for Evans' try last week which was missed.

Regardless of your views on whether it was or wasn't a try, it just seems a dangerous precedent to set and puts even more pressure on the TMOs.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
16,985
30,495
Moore is in there (I'm sure I was bigging him up in here previously) but he's at Sale.

Ibitoye is also in there after his performance for the u20s presumably.

Yeah, Moore’s the Son of Steve Moore who played for Wales. Not seen his son play for Sale.

Both those under 21 wingers looked decent.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
16,985
30,495
Good to see Biggar and Liam Williams back in the starting 15.

Halfpenny back at 15 after missing out against England. A bit early for Faletau who’s been released to Bath who play on Saturday. Would’ve liked him on the bench but Bath have been good to us and he needs some minutes in the legs.

North starts on the bench and Adams and Patchell miss out all together. Harsh on both (especially Adams who didn’t do much wrong) but that’s international rugby.
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
48,105
47,061
Good to see Biggar and Liam Williams back in the starting 15.

Halfpenny back at 15 after missing out against England. A bit early for Faletau who’s been released to Bath who play on Saturday. Would’ve liked him on the bench but Bath have been good to us and he needs some minutes in the legs.

North starts on the bench and Adams and Patchell miss out all together. Harsh on both (especially Adams who didn’t do much wrong) but that’s international rugby.

Looks a strong team, although a lot does rest on the fitness of Halfpenny, Williams and Biggar. Big call bringing them all straight back in (well for Biggar and Williams anyway) but I suppose they have to for what is now Wales' biggest game of the tournament.

Really hope Wales put a dent in Ireland here. Ireland have some injury issues of their own now, so Wales really should be able to give them a game.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
16,985
30,495
Looks a strong team, although a lot does rest on the fitness of Halfpenny, Williams and Biggar. Big call bringing them all straight back in (well for Biggar and Williams anyway) but I suppose they have to for what is now Wales' biggest game of the tournament.

Really hope Wales put a dent in Ireland here. Ireland have some injury issues of their own now, so Wales really should be able to give them a game.

We should be able to give them a game without those players. We gave you a good game without them. I see what you’re saying though, we’ve got a better chance which is true, imo. Think the bookies have given us a 11 point handicap but we beat Ireland last year and I’m certainly not ruling out a 3-5 point win this Saturday but if I had to put my balls on it I’d say Ireland by 10.

Think Ireland will play a similar territory game that England did last week. Lots of box kicking from Murray as per and Sexton is an intelligent player so if they can execute that kicking game well and their set piece is strong they should win.

Wouldn’t it be great if Wales win and Scotland cause an unlikely upset against England later in the afternoon. Would be wide open.

TBH, I’ll be pleased if Scotland can just stop you getting a BP but I doubt even that will happen tbh.
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
48,105
47,061
We should be able to give them a game without those players. We gave you a good game without them. I see what you’re saying though, we’ve got a better chance which is true, imo. Think the bookies have given us a 11 point handicap but we beat Ireland last year and I’m certainly not ruling out a 3-5 point win this Saturday but if I had to put my balls on it I’d say Ireland by 10.

Think Ireland will play a similar territory game that England did last week. Lots of box kicking from Murray as per and Sexton is an intelligent player so if they can execute that kicking game well and their set piece is strong they should win.

Wouldn’t it be great if Wales win and Scotland cause an unlikely upset against England later in the afternoon. Would be wide open.

TBH, I’ll be pleased if Scotland can just stop you getting a BP but I doubt even that will happen tbh.

Yeah I didn't mean to suggest that the Scarlets + team couldn't give Ireland a game, just that it should be much closer now with some big name Welsh players returning and Ireland missing at least two crucial players from their last win.

Ireland at home are a fairly fearsome proposition though, and you can see why the bookies give them 11 points. I think you're right that they'll try and choke the life out of Wales with the territory game (which Wales didn't really cope that well with at Twickenham), and then look to capitalise late on.

But Ireland haven't looked that comfortable when teams have run at them, so if Wales can get their game going in a way they never quite managed for a sustained period against England (albeit there were some flourishes) then they'll give Ireland a lot to think about.

As for England let's wait and see the team. Having Hughes in will help us, and they obviously go in as favourites, but a bonus point win at Murrayfield is a lot to ask for.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
16,985
30,495
Yeah I didn't mean to suggest that the Scarlets + team couldn't give Ireland a game, just that it should be much closer now with some big name Welsh players returning and Ireland missing at least two crucial players from their last win.

Ireland at home are a fairly fearsome proposition though, and you can see why the bookies give them 11 points. I think you're right that they'll try and choke the life out of Wales with the territory game (which Wales didn't really cope that well with at Twickenham), and then look to capitalise late on.

But Ireland haven't looked that comfortable when teams have run at them, so if Wales can get their game going in a way they never quite managed for a sustained period against England (albeit there were some flourishes) then they'll give Ireland a lot to think about.

As for England let's wait and see the team. Having Hughes in will help us, and they obviously go in as favourites, but a bonus point win at Murrayfield is a lot to ask for.

I don’t think we dealt with England’s kicking game that badly. A couple of dropped high balls and a few loose kicks here and there but other than that we coped pretty well. Stopping England scoring any points for over an hour is quite an achievement really but ultimately personnel let us down. Biggar, Williams and Halfpenny will be much better equipped to deal with that, I hope.

Yes, having the Welsh Fijian aka Nathan Hughes back is a big plus for you. I don’t think a bonus point win is a lot to ask, their defence is dodgy but you’re right, it’s not easy and certainly not a given. It’s their cup final and the crowd should be good and we all know how much better they perform at home. You’d take 4 points though, I’m sure.
 
Top