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The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

Spurzinho

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2016
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English football has the same problem that Spain had in the late 80's, Italy and Germany had after their booms of the mid late 80's to the mid 90's and France and Scotland of the early 90's. They were leagues flooded with money and as a result foreign talent. This blocked pathways for younger talent and a whole generation of players were lost. They then went through what was subsequently known as the "dark ages" in terms of youth development. Scotland and Italy are still struggling to find their way out for entirely political reasons. France and Germany got their acts together. However, it wasn't political will or luck that resulted in the attempts to fix the situation, it was very real economic circumstances. The booms turned to bust. In Italy, Spain, France and Germany established top division clubs went to the wall or very close to it. In Scotland this happened to a lesser extent with pretty much everyone bar Celtic having to adjust to living hand to mouth.

England will not become a leader in youth development until the boom is over. It will come to an end, all booms do. Until that time the political will to implement meaningful change cannot and will not find any traction. For evidence of this basic principle just look at the 2008 financial crisis. Everyone and their dog (well, apart from those ideologues of the Right) knew the system was f*cked long before it went pop but who's going to turn round to the shareholders and tell them that whilst everyone else is making money hand over fist their company is going to be run along sustainable but significantly less profitable lines. No one and that's what happened. No one dared. The same principle exists in football. No one shuts the stable door until the horses have bolted.
 

therhinospeaks

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2014
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818
Quite a few of us are fans. Big, strong and powerful. He's comfortable receiving the ball in tight spaces, doesn't mind playing with his back to goal. Has a similar game to Kane around the box. Gets the ball, feels the defender and then uses his power to wriggle free and get off an early shot. He's still relatively new to the position having played just about everywhere else in his time with us. When I first came across him he was a marauding centre back. Then he was tried out at right back for a short period, then central midfield, then about 18 months to two years ago they thought he was going to settle down as a right winger. He was always scoring goals wherever they played him and so I suppose it was no surprise that in the end they've turned him into a striker.

Wasn't he a winger in the u16s? If so, he's nearly completed 3 seasons as a 'forward'
 

George94

George
Feb 1, 2015
3,661
19,454
Regarding Reo Griffiths...

We lost Ismail Azzouri to Wolfsburg, who quite a few rated highly, we almost lost Onomah to City a few years back and I reckon we've been battling to keep hold of Edwards for a long time.

There will always be a couple who end up 'slipping through the net' - we're never going to be able to keep hold of all the talent in the academy.

He looks a promising prospect, however. Hope we can convince him to stick around.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
Regarding Reo Griffiths...

We lost Ismail Azzouri to Wolfsburg, who quite a few rated highly, we almost lost Onomah to City a few years back and I reckon we've been battling to keep hold of Edwards for a long time.

There will always be a couple who end up 'slipping through the net' - we're never going to be able to keep hold of all the talent in the academy.

He looks a promising prospect, however. Hope we can convince him to stick around.

Asked in the two team thread, do you think it might be worth it to give him a run out against rochdale?
 

George94

George
Feb 1, 2015
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Asked in the two team thread, do you think it might be worth it to give him a run out against rochdale?

Well in my personal opinion, he couldn't do much worse than Llorente - but that is more down the the fact I don't rate Llorente at all...

Don't see Poch throwing him, or any other youngsters, into that game though. It's a must win.
 

WindyCOYS

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2016
479
1,588
Asked in the two team thread, do you think it might be worth it to give him a run out against rochdale?
Absolutely agree, but it won't happen. This is exactly the type of game we should be using to have a couple of promising youngsters on the bench to say to them 'here's what is within touching distance if you work hard enough'.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
Absolutely agree, but it won't happen. This is exactly the type of game we should be using to have a couple of promising youngsters on the bench to say to them 'here's what is within touching distance if you work hard enough'.

I was thinking to start him ahead of llorente. He can't do any worse and would put some effort in.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
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Just don’t think kane will start vs Rochdale . We have 5 back to back games coming up. I’d start Son and have kane and Griffiths on bench. Give him 20 mins if we are 3-0 where’s the harm. Llorente Hopefully Be at home on his sofa.
 

Swalien

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
1,138
1,322
Absolutely agree, but it won't happen. This is exactly the type of game we should be using to have a couple of promising youngsters on the bench to say to them 'here's what is within touching distance if you work hard enough'.
Surely we will be in danger of doing a "chelsea", if we do not provide the path to the first team, to our youth players who have performed brilliantly at under 18 games for us? I see Chelsea are at least trying to rectify their problem by blooding their youth in cup games this year. Poch doesnt seem to be able to offer that carrot to a u18 player, he only seems to reward hard working u23 professionals when we are hard up for players to make up the bench like Georgiou and Amos this season.
 

Hengy1

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2014
2,744
7,424
Think everyone bring harsh on Sterling Tbh thinking Griffiths should jump ahead of him and into first team.
 

Univarn

Lost. Probably Not Worth Finding.
Jul 20, 2017
2,864
15,279
Think everyone bring harsh on Sterling Tbh thinking Griffiths should jump ahead of him and into first team.
I tend to agree. At times there does seem to be a "They're old news! Who is next?" quality to the youth thread, probably even moreso from the casuals like me. I suspect a lot of that is down to the small percentage of players that will come through by comparison to the sheer number of players that are in the academy, and even then those that just hit that perfect patch of form at the right moment.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
The thing about Griffiths for me are his numbers and his sheer size over someone like sterling. Of course you get quality 9s that aren’t the biggest. But the thing about Griffiths is he has that potential to be a kane or a Lukaku just by his physique. Sterling seems more a steady eddy to me. In 18 months of reading this thread I never seen great excitement about sterling. Bit like yeah he’s competent and OK but you rarely see anyone raving about him.
 

Cornpattbuck

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,873
15,942
Well in my personal opinion, he couldn't do much worse than Llorente - but that is more down the the fact I don't rate Llorente at all...

Don't see Poch throwing him, or any other youngsters, into that game though. It's a must win.

I think Llorente's problem is he needs regular game time to get up to speed. With that in mind I definitely think a youth striker or Son would be more effective for us. He just doesn't really fit with what we do.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
Quite a few of us are fans. Big, strong and powerful. He's comfortable receiving the ball in tight spaces, doesn't mind playing with his back to goal. Has a similar game to Kane around the box. Gets the ball, feels the defender and then uses his power to wriggle free and get off an early shot. He's still relatively new to the position having played just about everywhere else in his time with us. When I first came across him he was a marauding centre back. Then he was tried out at right back for a short period, then central midfield, then about 18 months to two years ago they thought he was going to settle down as a right winger. He was always scoring goals wherever they played him and so I suppose it was no surprise that in the end they've turned him into a striker.

I agree, with a lot of this. I don't know if I come across quite down on him, but as you say, he is still so very raw, having been a CB and RB for so long. There is a lot to his game I admire and he is developing, I am just very cautious on over hyping him too much. Though he bags goals and as I've said before to even get a call up to his England age group is impressive. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go to Germany and do well, after another season developing, though like 95% of our academy players he could probably go to a top 5 league now and not look out of place.

His awareness of space around the box has certainly improved and his surprising nimble feet are impressive. He is lacking something but I don't know what. My only issue with him, and I guess it is the same fora lot of strikers, he can appear like he is missing from the game a lot unless the game is going well. I think he needs to do more to contribute or find ways to get involved.

I hope he takes up the offer of going to Germany if it is true, (as Trix's info suggested, though it has been evident for last few years) that we have no intention to use the academy. Even if Poch did plan on using it we know he won't get a chance with Kane around when, better players a lot better than Griffiths aren't getting chances in positions with players a lot worse than Kane.

Genuine question to all you fantastic youth watchers.

What is the story with all the hyphenated surnames? Seems to be a disproportionate amount coming through the youth ranks.
Whats up with that? As i said genuine question as you just don't see that over here.

Before it was an upper class thing. Families wanting to preserve their name. Nowadays, it is the results of a lot couples splitting up after having kids, not marrying and maybe even due to equality where women are less inclined to give up their surname, which is fair enough.

Out of curiosity, in the last 20 years or so how many players that we have discarded or rejected as youths have gone on to play regular PL football?

Not many before the 89/90 age group as our academy setup was terrible. However the 89/90 age group were the first age group to come through after the restructure and improvement in coaching, but they would have only received it for one year. That age group would have turned 19/20 (the age where players start getting chances) in 09/10. Since that age group we have had loads of players come through and get chances.

By rejected/discarded I assume you mean were never given a chance here. Then that would be Smith, Daniels and Pritchard who are currently playing Premier League football. Fortunately thanks to various managers a lot of the good players born between 89/90 to 94/95 got chances and played a lot games for us, and played a lot of games for other Premier League clubs. The chances since those age groups have really dried up sadly despite their being more talent available.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
Don't know if its news or even terribly interesting but looking through new contracts registered by the FA in the month of December I see that Keanan Bennetts, TOB, Sam Shashoua & Japhet Tanganga have all signed new deals.
Quite surprised about Bennetts. With everyone seemingly trying to try their hand abroad, I would have thought the actual German speaking player would have considered it rather than tying himself down at a club he won't get a chance at. This is all bitter sweet, such talented players being kept at the club, but so much is going to be wasted. I was speaking to a Spurs fan the other day who regularly goes to youth matches, waxing lyrical about Tanganga. He has so many fans haha.

Interesting. Wonder if we can secure KWP and Onomah loans in the bundesliga? Seems more German teams are open to securing English talent.
Can't remember if it was a Spurs ITK or where I read it, but I remember reading that European clubs are coming after our talent as they know they are better. They are hoping if they give them chances they will show the Premier League clubs how good they are, so the Premier League stop poaching their talent. I know some Dutch coaches are really annoyed as they have produced so many players that get taken to the Premier League clubs and never play, whereas if they stayed in Holland they would come through and believe it is a reason the Dutch team is in such a state at the moment. They also know the Premier League is loaded with money. They already know they can sell average players and good player for ridiculous sums, but they also know a homegrown player is worth even more. They develop an English player they can ask for extortionate amounts and you know they City's of this world will pay. That's why City don't really care about letting Sancho go. I remember reading on a Bremen forum their fans were excited about how good Veljkovic was becoming, and they were hoping in a couple of years time a PL club would come in and pay even more as he would fulfil a quota.

Some may say it’s too early. But personally I’d give Griffiths ago in the 2nd striker role. He will be 18 and physically looks like he could handle it. If we sign another AM as is being muted then we still have Son as cover as well. I’d like to see a sort of foyth role playing time wise. I know he’d be leapfrogging sterling but of the two I feel he has more potential.
Don't get me wrong I don't think Griffiths would do any worse than Llorente but didn't you say there was no one in the youth team deserving of a chance in the squad at the moment. I don't know how Griffiths can when he hasn't even played u23 football. I don't think he is good enough to be playing for our first team yet, the issue is Llorente is just doing so poorly it would do no harm. But we all know if someone gets a chance, and catches a break, everything can change. Look at Rashford, he was Griffiths age, and nowhere near the England squad when he got a sub opportunity and when from there.
 
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