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The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

allpaths

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2014
3,174
8,381
If that is Pochs biggest issue, we are ok.

Seriously, i don't understand why people think Poch should necessarily play our kids over our senior team (if they are not ready)
Because they can give us something that isnt all that easy to buy. Commitment to and understanding what it means to play for the club.

But I don't agree in throwing in Griffiths or any other youngster just becuase they might leave. The player and the club need to do want is best for themselves.

In the end I dont have that big of an issue with Poch's policy, because in the end it may only cost us one or two players. It's just disappointing because it makes us more similar to Chelsea and Liverpool and I liked the fact that we did our business differently.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
Because they can give us something that isnt all that easy to buy. Commitment to and understanding what it means to play for the club.

But I don't agree in throwing in Griffiths or any other youngster just becuase they might leave. The player and the club need to do want is best for themselves.

In the end I dont have that big of an issue with Poch's policy, because in the end it may only cost us one or two players. It's just disappointing because it makes us more similar to Chelsea and Liverpool and I liked the fact that we did our business differently.

Very much aligned with your thinking. There's no point in playing these youngsters just because we are afraid of losing them. Play them if we think they are good enough.

Difference is I think we aren't using it well enough and believe there are plenty who are. I believe they would either prove to better the first team/squad or be sold to bring in funds that would let us improve the first team/squad. I liked that we did our business differently as it helps us develop a connection and has something we can be proud, but also believe it is what we are going to need to use in order to match or outgun our rivals. We will not outbuy them. We are essentially competing in England alone for the 6th best player in any position without taking into account the giants abroad. So we need to be smarter about it. If we win titles I couldn't care less if we use them or not. I trust Poch is a good enough manager to potentially win titles if everything falls into place, but he is fighting an up hill battle.

And if we have no interest in using them, I would rather they all go abroad, so that England can reap the benefits of them, as I'd like to see us win a World Cup.
 

Hengy1

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2014
2,744
7,424
The comments re hilarious. No passion, no commitment, never a comment on someone's ability. We want players that wear their heart on their sleeve, I don't care about talent.
English fans

Passion > Commitment > Ability

And we then wonder why we end up with players like Henderson in the England team
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
English fans

Passion > Commitment > Ability

And we then wonder why we end up with players like Henderson in the England team

THANK YOU.

Again I know you NEED to work hard and can't just expect anything given to you, but if you're not running around like a British Bulldog in England you'll struggle to come through, and fans won't appreciate you unless you're doing something magical like Berbatov
 

allpaths

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2014
3,174
8,381
Very much aligned with your thinking. There's no point in playing these youngsters just because we are afraid of losing them. Play them if we think they are good enough.

Difference is I think we aren't using it well enough and believe there are plenty who are. I believe they would either prove to better the first team/squad or be sold to bring in funds that would let us improve the first team/squad. I liked that we did our business differently as it helps us develop a connection and has something we can be proud, but also believe it is what we are going to need to use in order to match or outgun our rivals. We will not outbuy them. We are essentially competing in England alone for the 6th best player in any position without taking into account the giants abroad. So we need to be smarter about it. If we win titles I couldn't care less if we use them or not. I trust Poch is a good enough manager to potentially win titles if everything falls into place, but he is fighting an up hill battle.

And if we have no interest in using them, I would rather they all go abroad, so that England can reap the benefits of them, as I'd like to see us win a World Cup.
I agree that I would like to see us fill out the squad with academy products, but the club is starting to become a real attraction. Look how we've been able to bring in two from PSG to compete for positions, while bringing a top Centerback prospect in Sanchez, even when we had the two top CBs in the league last season. On top of that Foyth looks like an incredible talent as well and he can only get cup appearances.

I have my doubts how a academy product is going to make it, if Poch prefers to purchase and the quality players want to come.
 

IfiHadTheWings

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2013
3,636
11,481
To be fair in a dogfight of a league like the Championship you need fight & commitment otherwise it can be a real job to get out of. Agree on the whole about lack of emphasis on techinical ability though.
 

mill

Well-Known Member
May 21, 2007
10,385
37,100
Carrick’s a great example of it, tonnes of appearances for Man U, very few for England. You can only be a dm for England if you tear around the pitch and tackle at 100mph. Who needs being in the right position to start with to avoid the need to slide in and the ability to control a game and keep possession of the ball? Not England
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
I agree that I would like to see us fill out the squad with academy products, but the club is starting to become a real attraction. Look how we've been able to bring in two from PSG to compete for positions, while bringing a top Centerback prospect in Sanchez, even when we had the two top CBs in the league last season. On top of that Foyth looks like an incredible talent as well and he can only get cup appearances.

I have my doubts how a academy product is going to make it, if Poch prefers to purchase and the quality players want to come.

No problem with Sanchez, the big fee implies we thought he was a talent and Moura is exactly who we needed. But it;s not like they are regular signings. Foyth I like and seems like a clever one.

But even if we make the assumption that every single signing we make from here on end will be a top quality success, using the academy players more in games, like CC or FA Cup or given them the occasional chance mid season when we are 5 nil up, might show us that we can in fact use them next season to help strengthen the squad. And then rather than spending on 2 plan Bs we might be able to go for plan A. Instead of going for the 45m player we end up going for that 60m player as we've saved money. Or instead of only being able to offer a top signing 100k per week we can now offer them 150k per week. We might even be able to bring players in earlier as a result. Surely its just about taking advantage of rare moments to squeeze in that time that could benefit us in the long run.

I can't remember what game KWP only got 5 mins, but let's use Sterling. Imagine if Sterling got 45 minutes in the dead rubber against APOEL, and banged in a goal. What might that have done for his confidence. Surely that would have potentially been worth more to us, than giving Llorente 90 minutes. What would have Llorente shown us that was any different we have seen already. Even taking into account Llorente scoring it's not exactly lit up his career with us. Him getting those 45 minutes wouldn't be the reason we won the CL nor if Sterling got it would it be the reason we lost the CL. But we would have come away with knowing whether Sterling could play more of a role for us, whereas we learned nothing about either in the end
 
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allpaths

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2014
3,174
8,381
No problem with Sanchez, the big fee implies we thought he was a talent and Moura is exactly who we needed. But it;s not like they are regular signings. Foyth I like and seems like a clever one.

But even if we make the assumption that every single signing we make from here on end will be a top quality success, using the academy players more in games, like CC or FA Cup or given them the occasioanly chance mid season when we are 5 nil up, might show us that we can in fact use them next season to help strengthen the squad. And then rather than spending on 2 plan Bs we might be able to go for plan A. Instead of going for the 45m player we end up going for that 60m player as we've saved money. Or instead of instead of only being able to offer a top signing 100k per week we can now offer them 150k per week. We might even be able to bring players in earlier as a result. Surely its just about taking advantage of rare moments to squeeze in that time that could benefit us in the long run.

I can't remember what game KWP only got 5 mins, but let's use Sterling. Imagine if Sterling got 45 minutes in the dead rubber against APOEL, and banged in a goal. What might that have done for his confidence. Surely that would have potentially been worth more to us, than giving Llorente 90 minutes. What would have Llorente shown us that was any different we have seen already. Even taking into account Llorente scoring it's not exactly lit up his career with us. Him getting those 45 minutes wouldn't be the reason we won the CL nor if Sterling got it would it be the reason we lost the CL. But we would have come away with knowing whether Sterling could play more of a role for us, whereas we learned nothing about either in the end
100% agree, but that doesnt seem to be Poch's style. And now that we are able to make such strong depth signings, it'll be a struggle for academy players to make the bench , let alone any minutes.

To start integrating one of Griffiths or Sterling ahead of Llorente at this point seems worthless, as at the most they are only going to get that one shot this season, which isnt going to tell us anything.
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
The comments re hilarious. No passion, no commitment, never a comment on someone's ability. We want players that wear their heart on their sleeve, I don't care about talent.

what's funny is that onomah actually made more tackles than any other player on the pitch tonight but i guess that doesn't fit in with him not wanting to put his foot in. also completed more dribbles than anyone else.
 

LexingtonSpurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2013
13,456
39,042
which isnt going to tell us anything.
That is probably the biggest disconnect here - many of us don't think the players have to show "us" anything - they have to show the coaching staff, and they get plenty of opportunities to show their qualities.
 

WindyCOYS

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2016
479
1,588
what's funny is that onomah actually made more tackles than any other player on the pitch tonight but i guess that doesn't fit in with him not wanting to put his foot in. also completed more dribbles than anyone else.
Just noticed that too - don't search his name on Twitter, it's an absolute nightmare. Their fans *hate* him.
 

SpursD22

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2017
4,682
8,929
Josh Onomah stats tonight according to WhoScored:

Rating: 7.62 (third highest after Hutton & Chester)


Shots: 0

Touches: 68

Passes: 30/36 (83%)

Key passes: 2

Dribbles: 5/7 (71%)

Dribbled past: 1

Aerials won: 1

Tackles: 6/7 (86%)

Clearances: 3

Interceptions: 1

Dispossessed: 2

Fouls: 2


The Villa fans scapegoats him all the time, don’t listen to them.
 

allpaths

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2014
3,174
8,381
That is probably the biggest disconnect here - many of us don't think the players have to show "us" anything - they have to show the coaching staff, and they get plenty of opportunities to show their qualities.
Didnt mean that they had to show us fans anything.

Meant that playing in one off game wouldnt do anything for the coaching staff that they already didnt figuire.

It amazes to me that their are so many talented indivduals that cant make the jump to the highest level and that the first team can tell weather a player has the mentality from the very first moment a youngster trains with them.
 
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