What's new

The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
When I first saw Skipp after hearing all the comments I was slightly underwhelmed. But then as said I saw him in one of the early group games and was mighty impressed. That’s when I made the Dier/winks love child comparison. Because that’s exactly what he looked like. A player that could break up play was tough tackling wore his heart on his sleeve but could also find a pass. As windy days his recent performances have dipped for whatever reason most likely tiredness. I don’t want to come across as I’m slating the kid. I’m just not quite as convinced as the majority. Hopefully he can regain his early season form. Easy to forget as well he is only 17.
 

Spurzinho

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2016
2,512
8,342
The things to remember about TOB & Skipp is not so much the fact that they're really, really good but that they're surprisingly good for ones so young. You look at 16/17 years with that level of ability and nouse and your instinct tells you that they have a great shot if they can develop over the next two or three years physically and emotionally.They're not phenomenons like Rooney where they are the whole package at 16. Players that are that good and mature both physically and emotionally are very, very rare. Dier is a regular for us in midfield but look at his age. He would not have been doing so at 16 or 17.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
But if you compare to the beginning of Poch's reign to now, the quality of the first team squad is so much higher, pluse we're competing higher up the table. It is somewhat understandable that we're seeing less opportunities, even if for those of us in here that isn't desirable.

Worth noting too now, that the combination of players returning to fitness and signings like Lucas make it increasingly difficult for players to be able to break through. Our squad is deep and talented. And across many positions we don't have clear first choice players and clear back-ups. There are lots of games, but they've got to be shared out to the squad players before there can be opportunities for the youth players.

That said, you'd hope that if one of the younger players was showing in training that he deserved a chance, he'd be given the opportunity. We'll see.

I'm worried about the size of the squad, and the futures for these players.

I know this is just repeating stuff, but you only have to go back a few months to when KWP had just made a very impressive debut in a position where we already had a very good option ahead of him.

Last time I looked we were fifth. Liverpool are above us and have played all season with their academy right back only.

I think if we have a young player we think actually has a higher potential ceiling than the one we are buying, isn’t it more logical to make him back up.

And the same argument goes for Sissoko. Between them, Onomah (TOB or even Skipp) and Edwards could have covered his ARM/CM squad roles and we could have been much better off (football and financial) 24 months down the line than we will be this summer.

I think this notion that our squad is too marvellous to integrate the very best anymore is bogus.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
Actually I may have been a bit harsh considering I think yesterday was the 3rd high level game in 7 days for quite a few.
 

nicdic

Official SC Padre
Admin
May 8, 2005
41,857
25,919
I know this is just repeating stuff, but you only have to go back a few months to when KWP had just made a very impressive debut in a position where we already had a very good option ahead of him.

Last time I looked we were fifth. Liverpool are above us and have played all season with their academy right back only.

I think if we have a young player we think actually has a higher potential ceiling than the one we are buying, isn’t it more logical to make him back up.

And the same argument goes for Sissoko. Between them, Onomah (TOB or even Skipp) and Edwards could have covered his ARM/CM squad roles and we could have been much better off (football and financial) 24 months down the line than we will be this summer.

I think this notion that our squad is too marvellous to integrate the very best anymore is bogus.
You know I fully agree. I'm just saying we've hit an issue with the squad. They aren't leaving for spaces for the kids to come through.

KWP was good against Newcastle, but let's not pretend he wasn't given MOTM by Sky purely because it was his debut. It was a decent performance, but it wasn't brilliant. That said, I'd have happily gone with him as the backup. I wouldn't have loaned Onomah, and I don't think we needed Moura. I'd always rather see kids given chances, but we're gonna see it be more and more difficult the way things are going.
 

therhinospeaks

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2014
667
818
In regards to Maghoma I’ve always been quite optimistic. But starting to wonder if it’s his physical advantage that’s made him look better than he actually is. Today he really looked quite average against boys his own size. But it feels harsh judging these kids on a dodgy game. I’m sure it’s natural to have ups and downs. I guess the coaches can see through that. And just a shout out to scotty Parker doing a fantastic job.

Needs to improve his decision making but has plenty to work with. I'm slightly underwhelmed as I was expecting the reason we were keeping his brother on the books was due to Paris being a mega talent. Is there a 4th Maghoma? ;-)
 

smallsnc

Well-Known Member
Mar 30, 2017
699
1,237
I know this is just repeating stuff, but you only have to go back a few months to when KWP had just made a very impressive debut in a position where we already had a very good option ahead of him.

Last time I looked we were fifth. Liverpool are above us and have played all season with their academy right back only.

I think if we have a young player we think actually has a higher potential ceiling than the one we are buying, isn’t it more logical to make him back up.

And the same argument goes for Sissoko. Between them, Onomah (TOB or even Skipp) and Edwards could have covered his ARM/CM squad roles and we could have been much better off (football and financial) 24 months down the line than we will be this summer.

I think this notion that our squad is too marvellous to integrate the very best anymore is bogus.

What makes you think that Onomah and Edwards could have handled the duties that Sissoko has been given by Poch? Is it the fact that do well against age group teams or the fact that they have had such success in the Championship? I get that people are frustrated that youth have not been given the chance, but what about Winks?

Are Josh and Marcus ready to do some of the defensive dirty work that Sissoko does? His work in that area frees up others on the team.

As for Liverpool playing an academy kid at right back. Their defense has been shaky at best for most of the year so I am not sure that is the best argument.
 

BPR_U16

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2006
1,783
2,603
I know this is just repeating stuff, but you only have to go back a few months to when KWP had just made a very impressive debut in a position where we already had a very good option ahead of him.

Last time I looked we were fifth. Liverpool are above us and have played all season with their academy right back only.

I think if we have a young player we think actually has a higher potential ceiling than the one we are buying, isn’t it more logical to make him back up.

And the same argument goes for Sissoko. Between them, Onomah (TOB or even Skipp) and Edwards could have covered his ARM/CM squad roles and we could have been much better off (football and financial) 24 months down the line than we will be this summer.

I think this notion that our squad is too marvellous to integrate the very best anymore is bogus.

How old were Skipp, TOB and Edwards when we bought Sissoko? How much experience had they got at U19 football never mind U23 or first team?

Sorry argument does not stack up on timing.

Onomah granted had been around first team squad and even played few games as RCM position but had not distinguished himself.

Cover was needed, the real question was Sissoko the right player to be bought
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
How old were Skipp, TOB and Edwards when we bought Sissoko? How much experience had they got at U19 football never mind U23 or first team?

Sorry argument does not stack up on timing.

Onomah granted had been around first team squad and even played few games as RCM position but had not distinguished himself.

Cover was needed, the real question was Sissoko the right player to be bought


Fair point on Skipp and maybe TOB - but you could insert Winks and Lesniak for those CM roles of you like. Edwards played as an ARM against Colchester after we purchased Sissoko. Onomah is a CM.

I'm not saying any of those options would have been world beaters, but Sissoko is about as bad as it gets, so none of those options could be (50m) much worse.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
What makes you think that Onomah and Edwards could have handled the duties that Sissoko has been given by Poch? Is it the fact that do well against age group teams or the fact that they have had such success in the Championship? I get that people are frustrated that youth have not been given the chance, but what about Winks?

Are Josh and Marcus ready to do some of the defensive dirty work that Sissoko does? His work in that area frees up others on the team.

As for Liverpool playing an academy kid at right back. Their defense has been shaky at best for most of the year so I am not sure that is the best argument.


You mean like the defensive work Sissoko did last weekend where he ran away from Winks and then didn't close down their crosser for the second. Yeah, I'm pretty sure they could cover that remit, at least.
 

smallsnc

Well-Known Member
Mar 30, 2017
699
1,237
You mean like the defensive work Sissoko did last weekend where he ran away from Winks and then didn't close down their crosser for the second. Yeah, I'm pretty sure they could cover that remit, at least.
B-C, you can always pick out instances where players make mistakes. All players make them, but Sissoko, in general, puts in a shift which frees up others.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
B-C, you can always pick out instances where players make mistakes. All players make them, but Sissoko, in general, puts in a shift which frees up others.

Right, but if all we need is shift work then we don't need to spend 50m to get it, we can cover "shift" with what we have here.

The point I'm making is, if Sissoko isn't even doing the basics, and he certainly isn't doing anything great, surely we can cover that remit in house ?

Saying "Onomah had a go at Am and wasn't brilliant" is no different to what we are saying now about Sissoko. Saying KWP did OK but he's still got learning to do, is what we are saying about Aurier.

Why? Because of short term thinking and exaggerated perceived fear of inexperience - when what we've learnt over the last few years is that if introduced judiciously, prudently there's often an upside to combining youth with experience. We seem to be veering further from that ethos than when Poch arrived.

We still can't compete with the uber spenders. We still aren't signing many off the shelf world class players, but we are now paying even more for the ones on the lower shelves.

People are saying our squad is now too good for the most talented kids to get even a minute. But I'm watching the likes of Sissko and Aurier chug around making basic mistakes (Aurier) and being incredibly limited (Sissoko). Sissoko was never good enough and never will be for this level. I'm guessing there's close to 85m in fees and wages in those two players. Imagine what we could have done with that money if we'd used it more wisely.
 
Last edited:

smallsnc

Well-Known Member
Mar 30, 2017
699
1,237
Right, but if all we need is shift work then we don't need to spend 50m to get it, we can cover "shift" with what we have here.

Apparently, you don't get the work ethic and endeavor is at least equal in importance as talent in order to achieve success. It can be very tough to get players who have either been more talented and / or more physically mature to increase that work ethic once they start stepping up and find the others around them as talented and physically equal. In some cases, you just have to put the players in a place where they either step up to the new level or they don't. Some players will take the opportunity and step up while others will not. Josh and Marcus have a chance to force their way into lineups at the Championship level by working hard enough and showing enough quality. Let's see what they can do because from what I have seen of them, seen more of Josh than Marcus, they have not taken that next step as of yet. When and if they do, I hope they are in position to come back and contribute to the Spurs because I think they both have the talent.
 

Streetspur77

Happy Clapper
Jul 20, 2017
2,792
9,404
You mean like the defensive work Sissoko did last weekend where he ran away from Winks and then didn't close down their crosser for the second. Yeah, I'm pretty sure they could cover that remit, at least.

Are we still blaming sissoko for winks taking too many touches and losing the ball?

lol
 

allpaths

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2014
3,174
8,381
What makes you think that Onomah and Edwards could have handled the duties that Sissoko has been given by Poch? Is it the fact that do well against age group teams or the fact that they have had such success in the Championship? I get that people are frustrated that youth have not been given the chance, but what about Winks?

Are Josh and Marcus ready to do some of the defensive dirty work that Sissoko does? His work in that area frees up others on the team.

As for Liverpool playing an academy kid at right back. Their defense has been shaky at best for most of the year so I am not sure that is the best argument.
Sissoko hasn't actually been that good defensively, he was at fault or partially at fault for the Sanchez's og at Southampton and West Ham's goal at wembley were a result of him respectively failing to track back and close down a player in space. I'm not saying Josh would have done better, but let's not pretend that Sissoko is a great shutdown defensive midfielder.

And I find it hilourous that you are suggesting that Liverpool's defensive wows are on the two young RB and not the overpaid painfully average veteren defensive spine of the team. That's the uphill battle kids face in football in this country, if things dont go well just blindly blame the kids.:banghead:
 

tiger666

Large Member
Jan 4, 2005
27,978
82,214
You mean like the defensive work Sissoko did last weekend where he ran away from Winks and then didn't close down their crosser for the second. Yeah, I'm pretty sure they could cover that remit, at least.

You live in a fantasy world.
 

smallsnc

Well-Known Member
Mar 30, 2017
699
1,237
Sissoko hasn't actually been that good defensively, he was at fault or partially at fault for the Sanchez's og at Southampton and West Ham's goal at wembley were a result of him respectively failing to track back and close down a player in space. I'm not saying Josh would have done better, but let's not pretend that Sissoko is a great shutdown defensive midfielder.

And I find it hilourous that you are suggesting that Liverpool's defensive wows are on the two young RB and not the overpaid painfully average veteren defensive spine of the team. That's the uphill battle kids face in football in this country, if things dont go well just blindly blame the kids.:banghead:

Not blaming the kids. Just dont think we should base what we do at Spurs on Pools defense.
 
Top