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The Mauricio Pochettino thread

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nicdic

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May 8, 2005
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He's an intensely loyal guy. I don't think he'd look to move unless he felt the club hadn't been loyal to him or his people.
 

Hazardousman

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Jul 24, 2013
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If Poch ever left we might as well kiss any progress we have made goodbye for the foreseeable future and quite honestly we may never replicate this team dynamic ever again, that's how important he is to us as a club going forward.

What our players and manager have is incredibly rare in modern football, the only comparison that can be made is United and Ferguson, I can't think of one manager walking this planet that could have these players and this group as close as they are or playing the kind of football they are right now, we may not have won a trophy yet but anybody who doubts the importance of Poch to our club is a fool.

Levy has to do everything within his power to keep him here, I don't care what it takes, I think as fans we always think the grass is greener on the other side and the media are desperate for us to turn on Poch, they will keep repeating how we haven't won a trophy until some of our supporters start believing we can do better, don't buy into it, the only reason they do it is because they are afraid of us, they don't want us to succeed because most of these pundits are supporters of rival clubs.

They know Poch staying here will make us a force in the future.

Poch is the most important part of this entire machine right now, I hope we never forget that.
 

StartingPrice

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
Feb 13, 2004
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  • He has poured four years of incredibly hard work and emotional investment into shaping the Spurs squad.
  • He will soon be parading that squad at the second biggest, but best, stadium in the country.
  • He will be training that squad in premium training facilities.
  • He has an excellent youth set-up behind him with which to supplement his squad with the young, enthusiastic and committed players he desires.
  • He has great relationships with everyone from the chairman to the the chief of youth set-up and player development (McDermott).
  • He has achieved so much on such a low net spend and the finances will be going up from here on in.




There is a very good possibility that he could take it.

A possibility? Yes. A very good posibility? Why?

  • He would be setting his hard work with us at nought if he leaves soon.
  • He wold be taking over a club he are pretty much demanding immediate success.
  • So he wouldn't have time to inculcate his desired methodologies.
  • At a club who have lost many of the advantages they enjoyed under Ferguson (who was given time to develop a young squad, incidentally).
  • With no certainty that he would be able to replace the great relationships, top to bottom, at Spurs with similar relationships at United.
The extra money is only so much of an incentive for a manager whose preferred methodology revolves around moulding and shaping young players and not in buying the very best mature talent to make a galacticos team. If he was given a cast iron assurance that he would be allowed at least four/five years to build his squad without any interference or repercussions for lack of trophy success, it might become a more attractive job. But even then, it would mean abandoning four seasons of hard work and emotional investment at Spurs just to replicate it at United. The only enticement he might have then would be that the players he developed would be less likely to be enticed away due to offers of higher wages elsewhere. But that presupposes, firstly, that we will lose a significant number more players due to wages, and, secondly, that United's major players would be prepared to stay there for four or five seasons of no trophy success (potentially) for the sack of the wages. It's possible, but I'm not sure it is enough to be throwing away everything he has with us.

Just my personal opinion, I'm not inside Poch's head, just have a good memory of his constant statements and his demeanour.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
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  • He has poured four years of incredibly hard work and emotional investment into shaping the Spurs squad.
  • He will soon be parading that squad at the second biggest, but best, stadium in the country.
  • He will be training that squad in premium training facilities.
  • He has an excellent youth set-up behind him with which to supplement his squad with the young, enthusiastic and committed players he desires.
  • He has great relationships with everyone from the chairman to the the chief of youth set-up and player development (McDermott).
  • He has achieved so much on such a low net spend and the finances will be going up from here on in.





A possibility? Yes. A very good posibility? Why?

  • He would be setting his hard work with us at nought if he leaves soon.
  • He wold be taking over a club he are pretty much demanding immediate success.
  • So he wouldn't have time to inculcate his desired methodologies.
  • At a club who have lost many of the advantages they enjoyed under Ferguson (who was given time to develop a young squad, incidentally).
  • With no certainty that he would be able to replace the great relationships, top to bottom, at Spurs with similar relationships at United.
The extra money is only so much of an incentive for a manager whose preferred methodology revolves around moulding and shaping young players and not in buying the very best mature talent to make a galacticos team. If he was given a cast iron assurance that he would be allowed at least four/five years to build his squad without any interference or repercussions for lack of trophy success, it might become a more attractive job. But even then, it would mean abandoning four seasons of hard work and emotional investment at Spurs just to replicate it at United. The only enticement he might have then would be that the players he developed would be less likely to be enticed away due to offers of higher wages elsewhere. But that presupposes, firstly, that we will lose a significant number more players due to wages, and, secondly, that United's major players would be prepared to stay there for four or five seasons of no trophy success (potentially) for the sack of the wages. It's possible, but I'm not sure it is enough to be throwing away everything he has with us.

Just my personal opinion, I'm not inside Poch's head, just have a good memory of his constant statements and his demeanour.

None of us are in pochs head. I'm not saying that poch will leave but there is a possibility he might, especially if mourinho is sacked.
 

StartingPrice

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
Feb 13, 2004
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None of us are in pochs head

We are all agreed on that.

I'm not saying that poch will leave

I know. I never composed a post based on a misunderstanding that that was what you were saying. I based it solely on what you said. 1 Why would anyone be very relaxed about Poch's status with us even if United, RM, PSG, etc., were circling. 2 There is a very good chance that Poch would take the United job if offered. I never once mistook your meaning or gave any indication that I had.

but there is a possibility he might,

No. That is not what you said. We all agree there is a possibility that he could leave. You said there was a very good possibility. That is a very different thing. I addressed that.


especially if mourinho is sacked

TBH, I think that is a total, complete and utter irrelevance. What will it matter to Poch if Mourinho is sacked, if he walks out, or if he sees his contract out?

The question isn't whether United might want him. I pretty sure he would be in the higher echelons of any replace the twat Maureen list. The question is whether anything they could offer would be enough to entice Poch to leave. That requires a fair notion of what Poch would be gaining by joining United, but also what he would be leaving by ditching us. It also requires a fair approximation of his personality - which is something the panic-mongers repeatedly ignore. Levy and, particularly, Lewis, went to great lengths to ascertain Poch's personality, including his sense of commitment, loyalty, etc., for the very reason that they require a long term manager to bring all the strings together at The Lane. They don't want someone who would just walk out somewhat willy-nilly, after saying all the right things and then back-tracking on them (like, for instance, AVB). That is why they gave him a five year contract straight off the bat, and not a more usual three years.

We are all entitled to our opinions. It is just that anyone who uses knowledge of Poch's history, his repeated public statements, the current and future state and prospects of THFC viz MUFC (in this instance), and knowledge of Levy/Lewis's recruitment process, reaches a different conclusion to anyone whose thought process could be summed up by United have more money than us and much more more recent success so Poch would fairly obviously take their job is offered. Obviously, my bat falls more to the former than the latter.
 

Mullers

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Jan 4, 2006
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None of us are in pochs head. I'm not saying that poch will leave but there is a possibility he might, especially if mourinho is sacked.
There is no way Levy would give permission to united to speak to Poch. Poch would have to resign which I can't see him doing.
 

StartingPrice

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
Feb 13, 2004
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Maybe Southampton fans didn't see him moving either

The other day I provided a link to a post I made a while back about Southampton fans and how they see Poch. TBH, they would have had to have been pretty effing myopic (which, admittedly, a lot of football fans inherently are) to not see what sacking the chairman and refusing to give Poch assurances that his exciting young squad wouldn't be sold out from under him. He had previously publicly stated that he had a strong sense of personal loyalty to Cortese (I believe, but this could be a stray memory, that he said the would be at the club as long as he was). He had had not one but two exciting young teams, he had developed, sold out from under him at Espanyol. So, very obviously, sacking Cortese and refusing to give assurances that his squad wouldn't going to be asset stripped (as it indeed was, that summer) really was going to have a big impact on whether he stayed at Southampton or not. This is all in the public record and was so at the time.

Or his clubs before that.

He only had one club before Southampton, Espanyol. He had a large part of the first team squad sold out from under him almost immediately because the club was skint. He rolled his sleeves up and developed an exciting young team. They, too, were asset stripped. He developed another exciting young team. That second young squad began to be asset-stripped too. It is no wonder he became despondent. I have no knowledge of this, but I wander whether the Espanyol fans could see that at the time, or if hindsight just makes it seem so obvious that he would walk. Maybe the feeling was that as an ex player who loved the club he would just put up with indefinite shite. I don't know. I suspect if I was viewing it at the time I would have thought he won't put up with much more of this.

I hope he stays but unless you know him personally, you never know.

We all hope he stays (with the exception of some loons). No-one knows him personally, but we can use his history, public utterances, demeanour, the current and future state and prospects of THFC viz MUFC (in this instance), and knowledge of Levy/Lewis's recruitment process, to help us reach a conclusion. No-one knows for definite but it does mean that some of us, having reached a conclusion based on these factors aren't panicking about crossing a bridge we haven't even come to yet, let alone deciding before hand that the bridge is going to collapse leaving us stranded.

One thing is Man U can offer him a much larger salary and transfer budget. Those 2 factors alone would be hard to knock back.

As answered in post above, Mauricio Pochettino that is an argument. Perhaps it is not as strong as you imagine, however. But what you aren't doing is listing all of the reasons that make staying at The Lane an enticing counter prospect.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
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We are all agreed on that.



I know. I never composed a post based on a misunderstanding that that was what you were saying. I based it solely on what you said. 1 Why would anyone be very relaxed about Poch's status with us even if United, RM, PSG, etc., were circling. 2 There is a very good chance that Poch would take the United job if offered. I never once mistook your meaning or gave any indication that I had.



No. That is not what you said. We all agree there is a possibility that he could leave. You said there was a very good possibility. That is a very different thing. I addressed


TBH, I think that is a total, complete and utter irrelevance. What will it matter to Poch if Mourinho is sacked, if he walks out, or if he sees his contract out?

The question isn't whether United might want him. I pretty sure he would be in the higher echelons of any replace the twat Maureen list. The question is whether anything they could offer would be enough to entice Poch to leave. That requires a fair notion of what Poch would be gaining by joining United, but also what he would be leaving by ditching us. It also requires a fair approximation of his personality - which is something the panic-mongers repeatedly ignore. Levy and, particularly, Lewis, went to great lengths to ascertain Poch's personality, including his sense of commitment, loyalty, etc., for the very reason that they require a long term manager to bring all the strings together at The Lane. They don't want someone who would just walk out somewhat willy-nilly, after saying all the right things and then back-tracking on them (like, for instance, AVB). That is why they gave him a five year contract straight off the bat, and not a more usual three years.

We are all entitled to our opinions. It is just that anyone who uses knowledge of Poch's history, his repeated public statements, the current and future state and prospects of THFC viz MUFC (in this instance), and knowledge of Levy/Lewis's recruitment process, reaches a different conclusion to anyone whose thought process could be summed up by United have more money than us and much more more recent success so Poch would fairly obviously take their job is offered. Obviously, my bat falls more to the former than the latter.

I'm very sorry if my use of the word "very" upset you i will retract it. I was merely trying to say to the person that said he wasn't at all concerned about poch leaving that there is a chance and there always will be.

Why would it matter if mourinho is sacked or leaves? Well utd are hardly going to be looking for a new manager if he is secure in his job.

Why would he leave? We all know the answer to that. More money, unlimited budget, chance to manage the most popular club on the planet, greater chance of winning trophies etc...

Do i think he will leave if utd come calling? I really don't know.

So yes if mourinho were sacked i would be concerned of poch going to utd. But i don't lose sleep over it. Can't control it so we just have to hope that he can realise his ambitions with us.
 

StartingPrice

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Feb 13, 2004
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It’s naive to think he wouldn’t consider it. He’s spoken about his admiration for Ferguson before.

Generally I’m not worried about him leaving before we move into the stadium, but he’s definitely changed his tune this season in how he’s talking about the future. Last year, it was all, “I’d be happy to be here for 10 years.” This season it’s all, “in football you never know the future”.

I don't think anyone sensible is saying he wouldn't consider it. Just that some of us feel that when all factors are considered there is a much better of him turning it down than some are allowing.

I haven't noticed anything different in his public statements. Right from the get go he has always added at the end of anything about he future a caveat that in football you never know. I have always taken that, primarily, to mean that he could (to take one example) end up managing at RM in fifteen years time so that even if he does stay at Spurs for fifteen years, as he seems to intend, he won't appear a liar by saying never. He has also said several times this year that he wants to do what Fergie did here. That he wants to provide those type of titles to this group of fans. His players have also individually made statements stating no indication that he wants to be anywhere but here.
 

StartingPrice

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Feb 13, 2004
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Sure...he's mentioned his admiration for Ferguson, but has he mentioned his admiration for Man United? Couldn't it be that he wants to emulate Ferguson at Tottenham?

Given that he has publicly stated that this is the case...I would say you might be on to something :)
 

'O Zio

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Dec 27, 2014
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Because I don’t see Poch uprooting from Spurs to move to Man United. It honestly doesn’t concern me in the least.

I hope you're right but I just don't see it that way.

United are:
  • A much bigger club
  • Would pay him massively more than we will
  • Have a top academy and history of giving chances to talented young players, which we know Poch likes to do
  • Have insane amounts of money despite being FFP compliant, so if he doesn't have any decent young players he can buy whoever he wants
  • Are in the PL, which is where all the top managers want to be at the moment (probably because of the money)
On top of that, we know he's a big admirer of Fergie, so being able to work with him and pick his brains every now and then would no doubt be of interest to him.

The only other places I could see him going at the moment would be PSG, but despite the obvious connection to him and big bucks they have, they still play in a crap league so I don't know whether he would want a job like that where you're basically just waiting for the CL fixtures to come up. The other one is obviously Real Madrid, but their entire modus operandi is in complete contradiction of Pochettino's methods/"philosophy" so despite them being attractive generally, it probably isn't the most suited job for him if he thinks about it practically.

Man United are, IMO, the most likely destination for him if he were to leave. They've just given Mourinho a new contract so he'll be around for another 1-2 years I reckon, by which time Poch will have already brought us into the new stadium etc. as well so the timing probably works out too
 

'O Zio

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Dec 27, 2014
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Given that he has publicly stated that this is the case...I would say you might be on to something :)

If I remember right didn't he actually say that he'd love to do that but in football you never know how things will work out so he just takes everything one week at a time (or something along those lines). It was a bit of a "who knows" kind of response to a question unless I'm thinking of a different comment than you.
 

StartingPrice

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I'm very sorry if my use of the word "very" upset you i will retract it. I was merely trying to say to the person that said he wasn't at all concerned about poch leaving that there is a chance and there always will be.

Why would it matter if mourinho is sacked or leaves? Well utd are hardly going to be looking for a new manager if he is secure in his job.

Why would he leave? We all know the answer to that. More money, unlimited budget, chance to manage the most popular club on the planet, greater chance of winning trophies etc...

Do i think he will leave if utd come calling? I really don't know.

So yes if mourinho were sacked i would be concerned of poch going to utd. But i don't lose sleep over it. Can't control it so we just have to hope that he can realise his ambitions with us.

I'm not upset. It's a debate. I'm debating. Just that I was answering a specific point - and the very was the important element in it. No-one, as I think I have said specifically in address to you in this thread, is saying there is no possibility whatsoever that Poch could leave.

I thought my answer explained my point on whether Maureen is sacked or leaves in another way. I introduced two alternatives to being sacked. I just don't think it matter which one it is. Don't come over cute with me - you mentioned only being sacked - obviously United wouldn't be looking for a new manager is Maureen was still in a job there. Sheeeeessssssh!

I answered why he would leave myself. Just that I balanced it by also giving reasons why he would stay and evaluated the two. Some folk (usually money grubbing whore-mongers :) ) place more emphasis on exactly how big the shiny piles of filthy lucre are than others. I don't think popularity would come into it. United can now be outpsent by City and Chelsea. A large part of their success was built specifically on Fergie. believe me, I was there, they really weren't the all that that United fans try to make them out to have been before Fergie had been there for several years. If Poch can make us a genuine force we might have more chance of winning trophies than United over the next decade. There seems to be a disconnect between two different sets of our fans. Some seem to think we have a definite, immutable role in a predetermined hierarchy. Others believe that the new stadium, training centre, careful investment in youth, etc., all together have the potential to make us a genuinely massive club again - we will have the second biggest, but best in every way, stadium in the country for a start. I am of the latter. I believe we will start seeing financial benefits on the back of the new stadium that some never thought possible. With a great young manager, great young team, great youth set-up, superb stadium and training centre and rapidly closing gap in financials, I personally look forward to a near future where we don't have to tuck tail to anyone...ANYONE!.

And no, we really don't know. I have been disappointed before in football...so I could be being over-optimistic. In defence of myself, I am looking at as many factors as I can, and trying to evaluate the pros and cons - as opposed to just saying United have more money than us and that is the be all and end all of it :)
 

StartingPrice

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Feb 13, 2004
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I hope you're right but I just don't see it that way.

United are:
  • A much bigger club
  • Would pay him massively more than we will
  • Have a top academy and history of giving chances to talented young players, which we know Poch likes to do
  • Have insane amounts of money despite being FFP compliant, so if he doesn't have any decent young players he can buy whoever he wants
  • Are in the PL, which is where all the top managers want to be at the moment (probably because of the money)
On top of that, we know he's a big admirer of Fergie, so being able to work with him and pick his brains every now and then would no doubt be of interest to him.

The only other places I could see him going at the moment would be PSG, but despite the obvious connection to him and big bucks they have, they still play in a crap league so I don't know whether he would want a job like that where you're basically just waiting for the CL fixtures to come up. The other one is obviously Real Madrid, but their entire modus operandi is in complete contradiction of Pochettino's methods/"philosophy" so despite them being attractive generally, it probably isn't the most suited job for him if he thinks about it practically.

Man United are, IMO, the most likely destination for him if he were to leave. They've just given Mourinho a new contract so he'll be around for another 1-2 years I reckon, by which time Poch will have already brought us into the new stadium etc. as well so the timing probably works out too

  • United are a much bigger club in the same way that Liverpool were a much bigger club than United when Fergie took over United.
  • Some folk seem more certain that United pay their managers much bigger wages than us, than others do. Poch negotiates his own contracts - how do you know that this is even important to him.
  • How big their academy was or which chances previous United managers gave to youth, is pretty irrelevant. What Poch would do and how good their academy is viz ours, are the only really important factors. Our academy is pretty good.
  • When Fergie took over United they could outspend everyone - though the Class of '92 did help as it meant they could target specific players and be absolutely certain of getting them. Now they have less money than Chelsea and City.
  • Quite. So are we.
Could you please list all of the counter factors that may entice him to stay at The Lane.

Personally, ATM, I am just going to take all of his public statements at absolute face-value. he wants to build a legacy, via a methodology of moulding young players into a team, at this club etc., specifically this club, to bring titles and trophies to the fans of this club, specifically this club, and the fans of this club, and when he talks about the long-term he really does mean ten, fifteen years in the future. If he leaves before then, I'll deal with it. In the meantime I am just going to enjoy us having a bluddy great team :)
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
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There was a time when if Utd came in for one of our players I'd resign myself to us losing him within 2 transfer windows if Utd made a proper effort.

At the time their wealth dwarfed ours and at the same time they were winning titles and competing in the CL while we were trying to nick 4th.

Now their wealth still dwarfs ours but the other factors are much more even. Our first team and youth setup competes on an even keel with them.

Maybe Poch would embrace the challenge of taking them back to the top. But I believe he has a very good thing here and would stay.

Certainly not as concerned as I would be if the same situation occurred 10 years ago.
 

'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2014
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  • United are a much bigger club in the same way that Liverpool were a much bigger club than United when Fergie took over United.
  • Some folk seem more certain that United pay their managers much bigger wages than us, than others do. Poch negotiates his own contracts - how do you know that this is even important to him.
  • How big their academy was or which chances previous United managers gave to youth, is pretty irrelevant. What Poch would do and how good their academy is viz ours, are the only really important factors. Our academy is pretty good.
  • When Fergie took over United they could outspend everyone - though the Class of '92 did help as it meant they could target specific players and be absolutely certain of getting them. Now they have less money than Chelsea and City.
  • Quite. So are we.
Could you please list all of the counter factors that may entice him to stay at The Lane.

Personally, ATM, I am just going to take all of his public statements at absolute face-value. he wants to build a legacy, via a methodology of moulding young players into a team, at this club etc., specifically this club, to bring titles and trophies to the fans of this club, specifically this club, and the fans of this club, and when he talks about the long-term he really does mean ten, fifteen years in the future. If he leaves before then, I'll deal with it. In the meantime I am just going to enjoy us having a bluddy great team :)

Sorry, I haven't phrased it very well I suppose, but you've misunderstood my point. I'm not saying he will leave us, or that he even wants to. I'm just saying there are lots of reasons why IF he were to leave, Man Utd is probably one of the more likely places he would end up. That's why I'm not listing reasons why he would stay at Spurs. A lot of people just seem to be writing that off as "We're better than Utd nowadays though so it's a backwards move" but that argument doesn't really stand up long-term IMO.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,986
81,907
Sorry, I haven't phrased it very well I suppose, but you've misunderstood my point. I'm not saying he will leave us, or that he even wants to. I'm just saying there are lots of reasons why IF he were to leave, Man Utd is probably one of the more likely places he would end up. That's why I'm not listing reasons why he would stay at Spurs. A lot of people just seem to be writing that off as "We're better than Utd nowadays though so it's a backwards move" but that argument doesn't really stand up long-term IMO.

It's an interesting point.

Poch has been linked to Real Madrid a lot. But most see he is a horrible fit for them. Not to say he would necessarily do a terrible job there but his qualities as a manager don't seem a good fit for them.

But how he manages our club does mimic to an extent the way SAF managed Utd. He would likely be a good fit there.

You are right that Utd are a big draw. If the job was available at the end of the season it is my belief that Poch would stay with us.
 
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