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The Rugby Thread

werty

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2005
25,074
26,310
I think it depends what you like, some people like a real contest/battle at the breakdown but I think if teams know they are likely to get whistled off the park for mucking about then they don't tempt it (or, actually more like if they know a ref is laissez-faire then you get more mucking about as per this game) and the ball comes out quicker and you get a faster more flowing game.

I was just speaking about his reffing style in general though, and it didn't impact the game. England have clear issues they need to work on in that aspect.
If teams stop competing at the breakdown though through fear of quick whistled refs then you could get everyone will use the tactic Italy did against England last year and that won't lead to exciting Rugby either. I mean, Owens style today didn't stop Scotland playing quick and exciting when they chose to.

I personally like a competitive breakdown and if we stop allowing teams to compete then we might as well just make it Rugby League and nobody wants that!
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,512
If teams stop competing at the breakdown though through fear of quick whistled refs then you could get everyone will use the tactic Italy did against England last year and that won't lead to exciting Rugby either. I mean, Owens style today didn't stop Scotland playing quick and exciting when they chose to.

I personally like a competitive breakdown and if we stop allowing teams to compete then we might as well just make it Rugby League and nobody wants that!

I think you can still compete, it should be a skill though and to be judicious as to as and when. With Nige's approach to it though I think teams know they can take a few liberties and it gets a bit scrappy in games he refs. There were things both teams were doing out there today that should have got consistently whistled, and then when you get the interception decision called all of a sudden when the rest of the game he's let a bit of a scrap on the floor go then I can see why fans might get a bit miffed.

As I say though, it didn't contribute to the defeat. Just a slight issue I have with his reffing style.
 

SugarRay

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2011
7,984
11,110
What was your main problem with him today?

Subs. England delayed delayed, yet jocks allowed to change ASAP

Breakdown was inconsistent

Advantage played...again, not consistent. Scotland allowed to play advantage until they scored. England’s done within 10 seconds

Worst of all, Care breakaway try. Owens tells Launchbury he’s fine, no issue, Jocks pass, Care intercepts, Launchbury penalizes. Terrible reffing.

Scotland deserved to win, let’s not confuse that issue and fair play, England win would paper over some major cracks ( back row Jones, awful, address it ) but no way should Owens be revered as best in the game anymore. He was terrible and needs to be questioned after that imo.
 

nightgoat

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2005
24,604
21,898
Scotland are like the West Ham of rugby. Don't care if they come second bottom as long as their one win is against England.

England didn't do enough to win the game, but Owens had an absolute shocker. Focus on refereeing the game properly instead of getting your soundbites out for Youtube clips. Nothing wrong with Care's interception which, unless he dropped the ball would have been a try under the posts. Thing is, a few minutes later he dealt with Farrell's disallowed try perfectly - there's a question of an infringement, in this case Lawes' accidental knock on, but let the game go for the extra five seconds until the ball is touched down, then bring it back to check. Launchbury was clearly not off his feet.

As for Wilson's eye gouge on Hughes, if he bothered to deal with it properly instead of just firing off a quotable line then Scotland play 45 minutes with 14 men.

Laidlaw knocks on at the beginning of the phase for Scotland's second try. Why, when Owens asks the TMO for any reason to not award the try does he only look at one replay of the grounding and not the obvious infringement five seconds earlier?

Less clear cut, but Joseph probably gathers the kick for the first try until he's pushed off the ball by Jones.
 

nightgoat

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2005
24,604
21,898
Subs. England delayed delayed, yet jocks allowed to change ASAP

Breakdown was inconsistent

Advantage played...again, not consistent. Scotland allowed to play advantage until they scored. England’s done within 10 seconds

Worst of all, Care breakaway try. Owens tells Launchbury he’s fine, no issue, Jocks pass, Care intercepts, Launchbury penalizes. Terrible reffing.

Scotland deserved to win, let’s not confuse that issue and fair play, England win would paper over some major cracks ( back row Jones, awful, address it ) but no way should Owens be revered as best in the game anymore. He was terrible and needs to be questioned after that imo.

Soundbite referee. He's put in several questionable performances over the years but he says funny things to players so everyone rates him.
 

Pellshek

Well-Known Member
Dec 30, 2015
2,509
7,289
Wales' and England's big fault today was thinking they were smarter than Ireland and Scotland.

Wales - via Gatland - thought they were oh-so-clever playing counter-attack, except that they dropped the ball every time it came near them because their mindset was so defensive. England were back to bad-old-days arrogant. Absolutely fucking abysmal. A period they should have left behind in the 80's.

Just deserts were dished out today, big time. Expansive, brave rugby was rewarded, and the opposite smashed. As it should be. Brilliant by Ireland and Scotland.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
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Wales' and England's big fault today was thinking they were smarter than Ireland and Scotland.

Wales - via Gatland - thought they were oh-so-clever playing counter-attack, except that they dropped the ball every time it came near them because their mindset was so defensive. England were back to bad-old-days arrogant. Absolutely fucking abysmal. A period they should have left behind in the 80's.

Just deserts were dished out today, big time. Expansive, brave rugby was rewarded, and the opposite smashed. As it should be. Brilliant by Ireland and Scotland.

Counter attack? Are you being serious. Your set piece was good, kicked well and played for territory (and did it extremely well)

As I said before discipline cost us but I don’t think it’s anything to do with counter attack and defensive mindset. TBH, I think we’ve played some good stuff so far but have let ourselves down in certain areas. Defence wasn’t as god yesterday either.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
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Owens shouldn’t be allowed near another England game again

Why just England games?

You’re not suggesting he has it in for the English are you ;)

I only half watched your game yesterday as was stripping wallpaper. Once I get a proper look at those incidents I’ll reply to your post.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
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Just watched that care try again. He doesn’t tell Launchbury he’s fine. He says release as Launchbury is clearly off his feet which he eventually does. He should’ve given advantage there and then but cares interception was straight after it.

You can’t have any complaints about that. Launchbury was clearly off his feet slowing down the ball but I can see where you’re coming from in that he didn’t give it straight away but fact remains it was a clear pen so don’t know what you’re moaning about. Care looked a half yard offside anyway.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
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Scotland are like the West Ham of rugby. Don't care if they come second bottom as long as their one win is against England.

England didn't do enough to win the game, but Owens had an absolute shocker. Focus on refereeing the game properly instead of getting your soundbites out for Youtube clips. Nothing wrong with Care's interception which, unless he dropped the ball would have been a try under the posts. Thing is, a few minutes later he dealt with Farrell's disallowed try perfectly - there's a question of an infringement, in this case Lawes' accidental knock on, but let the game go for the extra five seconds until the ball is touched down, then bring it back to check. Launchbury was clearly not off his feet.

As for Wilson's eye gouge on Hughes, if he bothered to deal with it properly instead of just firing off a quotable line then Scotland play 45 minutes with 14 men.

Laidlaw knocks on at the beginning of the phase for Scotland's second try. Why, when Owens asks the TMO for any reason to not award the try does he only look at one replay of the grounding and not the obvious infringement five seconds earlier?

Less clear cut, but Joseph probably gathers the kick for the first try until he's pushed off the ball by Jones.

You think Launchbury was on his feet?

I see your point re the eye incident. Not sure you can solely pay the blame at Nigel’s door there, though TMO/assistants have to help him out there.
 

Pellshek

Well-Known Member
Dec 30, 2015
2,509
7,289
Counter attack? Are you being serious. Your set piece was good, kicked well and played for territory (and did it extremely well)

As I said before discipline cost us but I don’t think it’s anything to do with counter attack and defensive mindset. TBH, I think we’ve played some good stuff so far but have let ourselves down in certain areas. Defence wasn’t as god yesterday either.


Sorry, I was drunk when I wrote this post last night and it's gibberish. I really shouldn't post drunk.
 

teok

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2011
10,836
33,607
Well done to the scots, well deserved.

As for went wrong. I said this before the 6N started. England are a mess at the breakdown and the back row is completely unbalanced.

Yes we have loads of injuries in that area but this has been an on going team issue for ages now which seems to be tactical. We were made to look foolish at times yesterday.
 
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Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,232
57,385
Scotland are like the West Ham of rugby. Don't care if they come second bottom as long as their one win is against England.

England didn't do enough to win the game, but Owens had an absolute shocker. Focus on refereeing the game properly instead of getting your soundbites out for Youtube clips. Nothing wrong with Care's interception which, unless he dropped the ball would have been a try under the posts. Thing is, a few minutes later he dealt with Farrell's disallowed try perfectly - there's a question of an infringement, in this case Lawes' accidental knock on, but let the game go for the extra five seconds until the ball is touched down, then bring it back to check. Launchbury was clearly not off his feet.

As for Wilson's eye gouge on Hughes, if he bothered to deal with it properly instead of just firing off a quotable line then Scotland play 45 minutes with 14 men.

Laidlaw knocks on at the beginning of the phase for Scotland's second try. Why, when Owens asks the TMO for any reason to not award the try does he only look at one replay of the grounding and not the obvious infringement five seconds earlier?

Less clear cut, but Joseph probably gathers the kick for the first try until he's pushed off the ball by Jones.


Water under the bridge now but I also think Finn Russell was lucky to get away with his knock on. England on the attack and trying to move it wide and he was nowhere near catching the intercept. Looked very iffy to me and I've seen yellow cards for less. Also Scotland constantly obstructed runners under the high ball nowhere near where the ball was landing. Frustrating to watch but Scotland were better on the day.
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
48,100
47,054
I think it was a very one-eyed performance from Owens, in particular with how he reffed the breakdown, but it doesn't mean that Scotland weren't the better team.

And unlike Gatland, it was good to see Eddie acknowledging the teams failings rather than only looking at the ref.

I said before the tournament that England looked lightweight and that was certainly the case yesterday. Hughes wasn't fit, and both Robshaw and Lawes were effectively out of position. The balance looked awful yesterday and both in defence and in attack it looked underpowered.

On top of that there are some players who shouldn't be guaranteed their places at the moment.

Brown isn't the player he was and I've said for a while he should be dropped.

JJ isn't offering anything and I think we miss Daly a lot.

I also think some bigger names need to up their game. Mako isn't doing well enough in the loose to justify his average scrumming so I'd consider starting Marler.

And I know @Arnoldtoo will froth at the mouth reading this...but Maro has been poor in this 6 nations so far. I think he's probably just knackered but really not at his best at the moment.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
16,984
30,494
I think it was a very one-eyed performance from Owens, in particular with how he reffed the breakdown, but it doesn't mean that Scotland weren't the better team.

And unlike Gatland, it was good to see Eddie acknowledging the teams failings rather than only looking at the ref.

I said before the tournament that England looked lightweight and that was certainly the case yesterday. Hughes wasn't fit, and both Robshaw and Lawes were effectively out of position. The balance looked awful yesterday and both in defence and in attack it looked underpowered.

On top of that there are some players who shouldn't be guaranteed their places at the moment.

Brown isn't the player he was and I've said for a while he should be dropped.

JJ isn't offering anything and I think we miss Daly a lot.

I also think some bigger names need to up their game. Mako isn't doing well enough in the loose to justify his average scrumming so I'd consider starting Marler.

And I know @Arnoldtoo will froth at the mouth reading this...but Maro has been poor in this 6 nations so far. I think he's probably just knackered but really not at his best at the moment.

He didn’t moan at the ref coz he has nothing to moan about. Those 2 tres were correctly not given. Had he been in Gats position he would’ve mentioned it I’m sure.

Glad those comments mocking Townsend have come back to bite him on the arse, though.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
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30,494
Also Gatland didn’t mention the ref after our game. It was the TMO and the decision that Watson’s hand grounded the ball first.
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
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He didn’t moan at the ref coz he has nothing to moan about. Those 2 tres were correctly not given. Had he been in Gats position he would’ve mentioned it I’m sure.

Glad those comments mocking Townsend have come back to bite him on the arse, though.

I wasn't talking about the tries. I think Owens reffed it wrong on the Care one as he should have at least looked at it on the replay (particularly having not given the pen in the first place) but I suspect he'd have come to the same conclusion.

It was the general inconsistency that I know Gatland would have had a field day with but Jones seems to have wisely left it alone.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
16,984
30,494
I wasn't talking about the tries. I think Owens reffed it wrong on the Care one as he should have at least looked at it on the replay (particularly having not given the pen in the first place) but I suspect he'd have come to the same conclusion.

It was the general inconsistency that I know Gatland would have had a field day with but Jones seems to have wisely left it alone.

Yeah, coz Gatland did nothing but moan at the ref after our game.
 
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