Match Ratings Ratings vs Crystal Palace

Basil Brush said:

I am a Dembele fan and I actually thought he was better than Eriksen.

I don't want to start an argument re Eriksen but i think he is extremely overrated.

Onions and all that.

Edit: Watch me get "disagrees" from the Eriksen fan boys without them giving any reasons.

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Bus-Conductor said:

Death and Taxes - Embrace the Grind

Weirdly, I enjoyed that game. I think we actually played very well in two thirds of the pitch against an incredibly well drilled unit and but for abject wastefulness, poor decisions by the ref and a bit of rub, we'd have won a very tricky game more comfortably.

Selection wise I didn't really understand the logic of Aurier for that one, I'd have had Trippier in there, and I don't understand the logic of Sissoko on the bench instead of Winks when you also have two other attacking options on the bench as well, if Wanyama or Dembele needed to be replaced (a not unlikely event seeing as both have had their injury issues) who would we rather bring on as a CM, Sissoko or Winks? But I did like the inclusion of Lamela over Son, in this type of game it makes sense to have someone who sees a clever through ball and can often play it, especially as Eriksen has to spend a lot of time being a CM as well these days as we don't have an incisive passer there.

It was great to see Wanyama back properly today, I thought he had a really good game, and demonstrated why he should always be in that midfield ahead of Dier, he's tenacious, dynamic, can press properly, expedient and efficient with the ball, and on the odd occasion a team breaks on us, he is the only one of the three (Dier/Dembele/Wanyama) that really has the energy and dynamism to get back quickly. He genuinely gives us a proper double pivoting CM2 instead of the much more inflexible deep Dier and half deep Dembele.

Games like today are the ones that the Dembele fans like to pretend don't exist or matter. But the trouble is they are far more frequent than the world beating games. He wasn't bad or anything, he was perfectly competent, but in games like today, which is what the vast majority of our games are, when we are up against the stiflers, the obdurate deep blockers, you need a player who sees a pass quicker and makes that pass quicker.

I though Eriksen was also really good today. I know many were bitching about him in the match thread but I just don't understand what they are thinking. If you extract Eriksen from that game it becomes so different, in fact, it becomes Southampton or Newport, a game bereft of any tempo or direction or creativity at all. Eriksen saw more midfield ball than Dembele FFS, he also set up the goal (and that was no fluke, that was the third time him and Kane had tried it) and set up Kane and nearly Alli with superb passes. That was another masterclass. Constantly on the ball, tick, tick, feeding Davies, feeding Aurier, feeding it into Alli or Lamela and then popping up in the final third too. If you can't appreciate what this fella is bringing to the party you really aren't paying attention. There are so few players who do what he does, play as CM, ACM, ARM and ALM in the same game.

Against an opponent like this, who are organised and disciplined, sitting very compact centrally, our approach play was actually spot on. We constantly got the ball out to FB's in very good positions, the shame was that neither of them delivered a single decent cross or pass from this great positions all game, Aurier in particular was incredibly wasteful from some exceptionally good positions, you just know Trippier would have done a shitload better.

And that was the one area of disappointment today, our decisions and executions in that final third, because our approach play actually did create numerous situations that should have yielded more. Kane misses two absolute sitters, Eriksen shanked badly when in another position, Alli should have two penalties but his own tomfuckery is now inevitably costing him. But it's not so much your CF missing sitters, it's annoying, but it happens, as long as he keeps getting into those positions, you know he'll get one, it's more the repeated waste of the situation before the situation in that final third that's killing us as much as anything. And this is why I don't understand why Pochettino continually seems to prioritise "quick" over "wit" every transfer window?

Eventually death (Kane) and taxes (Eriksen) did arrive for Palace and there are few sweeter feelings in football than a very hard earned 88th minute winner. It was thoroughly deserved, we'd dominated, we'd created openings and chances, got behind them whilst at the same time rarely allowing them in our half.

Individual

Lloris - SFA to do really.

Aurier - It's just pretty much Walker all over again. Defensively pretty similar, pretty sound, and he does get up and down energetically but his delivery in good forward positions is as bad as Walker's was - maybe even worse today. He's not a terrible RB, any more than Walker isn't, but Would we really have been worse off if we'd given KWP his development time ?

Sanchez - Good game.

Dier - One very careless pass out of defence aside, good game. He has got to eradicate those from his game though.

Davies - Similar to Aurier really. very involved, got into some good positions, wasted all of them pretty much. Unlucky not to have a penalty though.

Wanyama - Very good game. Saw more ball than anyone, moved it quickly and efficiently, which exactly what you need, and his ability to cover ground gives us a genuine double pivoting CM pair which is much harder to play against. VICE-MOTM

Dembele - Against tough opponents, when he's at it, he can be a don, but games like today when what we need is more vim and less dawdle, he can just slow things down. Thought he was very laboured today, especially second half.

Lamela/Alli - Worked hard, played their part in the build up play, which was important, but creatively a bit wanting. Alli's diving bit him in the arse big time today, because he should have had two pens.

(The Tax Man) Eriksen - Like the taxman, some don't really see what he does, but like the taxman, he's everywhere, quietly, Insidiously and constantly taking little bites out you, and even the killer brown envelope at the end of the year that finishes you off often arrives without you hearing it glide through your letterbox. He's constant. Great ball for the goal, should have had another assist at least. MOTM

(Death) - Kane - you might have one lives, he doesn't care, he'll get you on the tenth.

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Bus-Conductor said:

How the bajesus is Dier winning the MOTM vote ? I mean he was perfectly good for much of that game, but it's not like Palace were in our half much or that he had loads to do. Even if you don't agree with me that Eriksen was, surely you have to go Wanyama, those two were at the hub of the game, keeping the hammer down on Palace relentlessly.

Dier did what he had to do really competently, apart from one very careless moment, but a CB won't get much easier days than that ? Did he do anything exceptional ?

What's the thinking ? I'm genuinely intrigued.

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Bus-Conductor said:

How the bajesus is Dier winning the MOTM vote ? I mean he was perfectly good for much of that game, but it's not like Palace were in our half much or that he had loads to do. Even if you don't agree with me that Eriksen was, surely you have to go Wanyama, those two were at the hub of the game, keeping the hammer down on Palace relentlessly.

Dier did what he had to do really competently, apart from one very careless moment, but a CB won't get much easier days than that ? Did he do anything exceptional ?

What's the thinking ? I'm genuinely intrigued.

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glospur said:

Yeah, nah. This is one of those occassions where preconceived ideas are colouring the view of what actually happened,

Wanyama was really poor in that first half. He gave away stupid free kicks in dangerous areas against a team that has two target men, he lost the ball, made more errors that Dier ever does in CM (they were just less 'high profile.' He improved in the second, but wasn't great. Just because he can press better, it doesn't mean he's better there than Dier. Today when he pressed and either fouled or missed the tackle he left gaping holes in midfield that would have been exploited by a better team. Dier is much more defensively and positionally disciplined, filling those spaces where the oppositions attacking midfielders like to operate. Also, Wanyama likes to play in the same areas as Dembele and it has a knock on effect to Dembele's game. With Dier in midfield he has more room and freedom to operate, and it's with Dier that he's at his best.

I have absolutely no idea how you can watch that and give Eriksen motm. Sure, he might have seen a lot of the ball, but he was misplacing passes left, right and centre, getting crowded out and losing the ball, putting in dreadful set pieces (apart from the last one), scuffed shots etc. That was the worst game he's played all season.

Dembele was in the same boat as Eriksen tbh. Ponderous, and when he did do anything he would invariably misplace a pass, but a lot of that is down to playing with Wanyama instead of Dier. When Dier plays CM he's deeper, often operating as an anchor, or picking up the ball on either side of the CB's. Wanyama prefers to receive the ball in teh same positions as Dembele, which leaves Dembele crowded.

Sanchez and Dier were the best for me, pretty much by being the least bad of the outfield players. Almost everyone else had a shocker. These two swept up any threat that Palace did pose and dealt with Sorloth and Benteke comfortably.

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glospur said:

This is one of those occassions where preconceived ideas are colouring the view of what actually happened.

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Paolo10 said:

I'm not...I'm picking on Serge mate, because as much as you love him, he's so stupid he doesn't know how to take a throw in despite being a professional footballer for most of his adult life.

Just curious why you're disliking the critiques (not just mine), do you feel it unjustified?

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Bus-Conductor said:

Death and Taxes - Embrace the Grind

Weirdly, I enjoyed that game. I think we actually played very well in two thirds of the pitch against an incredibly well drilled unit and but for abject wastefulness, poor decisions by the ref and a bit of rub, we'd have won a very tricky game more comfortably.

Selection wise I didn't really understand the logic of Aurier for that one, I'd have had Trippier in there, and I don't understand the logic of Sissoko on the bench instead of Winks when you also have two other attacking options on the bench as well, if Wanyama or Dembele needed to be replaced (a not unlikely event seeing as both have had their injury issues) who would we rather bring on as a CM, Sissoko or Winks? But I did like the inclusion of Lamela over Son, in this type of game it makes sense to have someone who sees a clever through ball and can often play it, especially as Eriksen has to spend a lot of time being a CM as well these days as we don't have an incisive passer there.

It was great to see Wanyama back properly today, I thought he had a really good game, and demonstrated why he should always be in that midfield ahead of Dier, he's tenacious, dynamic, can press properly, expedient and efficient with the ball, and on the odd occasion a team breaks on us, he is the only one of the three (Dier/Dembele/Wanyama) that really has the energy and dynamism to get back quickly. He genuinely gives us a proper double pivoting CM2 instead of the much more inflexible deep Dier and half deep Dembele.

Games like today are the ones that the Dembele fans like to pretend don't exist or matter. But the trouble is they are far more frequent than the world beating games. He wasn't bad or anything, he was perfectly competent, but in games like today, which is what the vast majority of our games are, when we are up against the stiflers, the obdurate deep blockers, you need a player who sees a pass quicker and makes that pass quicker.

I though Eriksen was also really good today. I know many were bitching about him in the match thread but I just don't understand what they are thinking. If you extract Eriksen from that game it becomes so different, in fact, it becomes Southampton or Newport, a game bereft of any tempo or direction or creativity at all. Eriksen saw more midfield ball than Dembele FFS, he also set up the goal (and that was no fluke, that was the third time him and Kane had tried it) and set up Kane and nearly Alli with superb passes. That was another masterclass. Constantly on the ball, tick, tick, feeding Davies, feeding Aurier, feeding it into Alli or Lamela and then popping up in the final third too. If you can't appreciate what this fella is bringing to the party you really aren't paying attention. There are so few players who do what he does, play as CM, ACM, ARM and ALM in the same game.

Against an opponent like this, who are organised and disciplined, sitting very compact centrally, our approach play was actually spot on. We constantly got the ball out to FB's in very good positions, the shame was that neither of them delivered a single decent cross or pass from this great positions all game, Aurier in particular was incredibly wasteful from some exceptionally good positions, you just know Trippier would have done a shitload better.

And that was the one area of disappointment today, our decisions and executions in that final third, because our approach play actually did create numerous situations that should have yielded more. Kane misses two absolute sitters, Eriksen shanked badly when in another position, Alli should have two penalties but his own tomfuckery is now inevitably costing him. But it's not so much your CF missing sitters, it's annoying, but it happens, as long as he keeps getting into those positions, you know he'll get one, it's more the repeated waste of the situation before the situation in that final third that's killing us as much as anything. And this is why I don't understand why Pochettino continually seems to prioritise "quick" over "wit" every transfer window?

Eventually death (Kane) and taxes (Eriksen) did arrive for Palace and there are few sweeter feelings in football than a very hard earned 88th minute winner. It was thoroughly deserved, we'd dominated, we'd created openings and chances, got behind them whilst at the same time rarely allowing them in our half.

Individual

Lloris - SFA to do really.

Aurier - It's just pretty much Walker all over again. Defensively pretty similar, pretty sound, and he does get up and down energetically but his delivery in good forward positions is as bad as Walker's was - maybe even worse today. He's not a terrible RB, any more than Walker isn't, but Would we really have been worse off if we'd given KWP his development time ?

Sanchez - Good game.

Dier - One very careless pass out of defence aside, good game. He has got to eradicate those from his game though.

Davies - Similar to Aurier really. very involved, got into some good positions, wasted all of them pretty much. Unlucky not to have a penalty though.

Wanyama - Very good game. Saw more ball than anyone, moved it quickly and efficiently, which exactly what you need, and his ability to cover ground gives us a genuine double pivoting CM pair which is much harder to play against. VICE-MOTM

Dembele - Against tough opponents, when he's at it, he can be a don, but games like today when what we need is more vim and less dawdle, he can just slow things down. Thought he was very laboured today, especially second half.

Lamela/Alli - Worked hard, played their part in the build up play, which was important, but creatively a bit wanting. Alli's diving bit him in the arse big time today, because he should have had two pens.

(The Tax Man) Eriksen - Like the taxman, some don't really see what he does, but like the taxman, he's everywhere, quietly, Insidiously and constantly taking little bites out you, and even the killer brown envelope at the end of the year that finishes you off often arrives without you hearing it glide through your letterbox. He's constant. Great ball for the goal, should have had another assist at least. MOTM

(Death) - Kane - you might have one lives, he doesn't care, he'll get you on the tenth.

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wirE said:

We won a poor game. Happy to get the three points but we're wasting so many shots and miss chances.

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JonnySpurs said:

100% agree. You've nailed it here BC.

Anyone who was marking down Eriksen clearly doesn't understand football or wasn't watching properly. He was excellent under the circumstances.

Perfect roundup and exactly how I saw the game. My only difference is that even though I can see why you did enjoy it, based on your write-up, I didn't enjoy it one bit. I hate these games when we have 80% of the ball and are just hammering away at a parked bus. Having said that, had we won an early penalty, as we should have, then I would've expected us to go on and smash in 2 or 3 more and be comfortable winners. Credit to Palace in that regard.

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glospur said:

So judging him on his multitude of misplaces simple passes, scuffed shots and losing the ball is indicative of someone who 'doesnt understand football?' What a horribly supercilious thing to say.

I love Eriksen, but he definitely wasn't good for all the reasons mentioned above. This was comfortbaly his worst game of the season. Even the commentators on the feed I was watching were commenting on how poor he was. Do they not understand football either?

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Bus-Conductor said:

Death and Taxes - Embrace the Grind

Weirdly, I enjoyed that game. I think we actually played very well in two thirds of the pitch against an incredibly well drilled unit and but for abject wastefulness, poor decisions by the ref and a bit of rub, we'd have won a very tricky game more comfortably.

Selection wise I didn't really understand the logic of Aurier for that one, I'd have had Trippier in there, and I don't understand the logic of Sissoko on the bench instead of Winks when you also have two other attacking options on the bench as well, if Wanyama or Dembele needed to be replaced (a not unlikely event seeing as both have had their injury issues) who would we rather bring on as a CM, Sissoko or Winks? But I did like the inclusion of Lamela over Son, in this type of game it makes sense to have someone who sees a clever through ball and can often play it, especially as Eriksen has to spend a lot of time being a CM as well these days as we don't have an incisive passer there.

It was great to see Wanyama back properly today, I thought he had a really good game, and demonstrated why he should always be in that midfield ahead of Dier, he's tenacious, dynamic, can press properly, expedient and efficient with the ball, and on the odd occasion a team breaks on us, he is the only one of the three (Dier/Dembele/Wanyama) that really has the energy and dynamism to get back quickly. He genuinely gives us a proper double pivoting CM2 instead of the much more inflexible deep Dier and half deep Dembele.

Games like today are the ones that the Dembele fans like to pretend don't exist or matter. But the trouble is they are far more frequent than the world beating games. He wasn't bad or anything, he was perfectly competent, but in games like today, which is what the vast majority of our games are, when we are up against the stiflers, the obdurate deep blockers, you need a player who sees a pass quicker and makes that pass quicker.

I though Eriksen was also really good today. I know many were bitching about him in the match thread but I just don't understand what they are thinking. If you extract Eriksen from that game it becomes so different, in fact, it becomes Southampton or Newport, a game bereft of any tempo or direction or creativity at all. Eriksen saw more midfield ball than Dembele FFS, he also set up the goal (and that was no fluke, that was the third time him and Kane had tried it) and set up Kane and nearly Alli with superb passes. That was another masterclass. Constantly on the ball, tick, tick, feeding Davies, feeding Aurier, feeding it into Alli or Lamela and then popping up in the final third too. If you can't appreciate what this fella is bringing to the party you really aren't paying attention. There are so few players who do what he does, play as CM, ACM, ARM and ALM in the same game.

Against an opponent like this, who are organised and disciplined, sitting very compact centrally, our approach play was actually spot on. We constantly got the ball out to FB's in very good positions, the shame was that neither of them delivered a single decent cross or pass from this great positions all game, Aurier in particular was incredibly wasteful from some exceptionally good positions, you just know Trippier would have done a shitload better.

And that was the one area of disappointment today, our decisions and executions in that final third, because our approach play actually did create numerous situations that should have yielded more. Kane misses two absolute sitters, Eriksen shanked badly when in another position, Alli should have two penalties but his own tomfuckery is now inevitably costing him. But it's not so much your CF missing sitters, it's annoying, but it happens, as long as he keeps getting into those positions, you know he'll get one, it's more the repeated waste of the situation before the situation in that final third that's killing us as much as anything. And this is why I don't understand why Pochettino continually seems to prioritise "quick" over "wit" every transfer window?

Eventually death (Kane) and taxes (Eriksen) did arrive for Palace and there are few sweeter feelings in football than a very hard earned 88th minute winner. It was thoroughly deserved, we'd dominated, we'd created openings and chances, got behind them whilst at the same time rarely allowing them in our half.

Individual

Lloris - SFA to do really.

Aurier - It's just pretty much Walker all over again. Defensively pretty similar, pretty sound, and he does get up and down energetically but his delivery in good forward positions is as bad as Walker's was - maybe even worse today. He's not a terrible RB, any more than Walker isn't, but Would we really have been worse off if we'd given KWP his development time ?

Sanchez - Good game.

Dier - One very careless pass out of defence aside, good game. He has got to eradicate those from his game though.

Davies - Similar to Aurier really. very involved, got into some good positions, wasted all of them pretty much. Unlucky not to have a penalty though.

Wanyama - Very good game. Saw more ball than anyone, moved it quickly and efficiently, which exactly what you need, and his ability to cover ground gives us a genuine double pivoting CM pair which is much harder to play against. VICE-MOTM

Dembele - Against tough opponents, when he's at it, he can be a don, but games like today when what we need is more vim and less dawdle, he can just slow things down. Thought he was very laboured today, especially second half.

Lamela/Alli - Worked hard, played their part in the build up play, which was important, but creatively a bit wanting. Alli's diving bit him in the arse big time today, because he should have had two pens.

(The Tax Man) Eriksen - Like the taxman, some don't really see what he does, but like the taxman, he's everywhere, quietly, Insidiously and constantly taking little bites out you, and even the killer brown envelope at the end of the year that finishes you off often arrives without you hearing it glide through your letterbox. He's constant. Great ball for the goal, should have had another assist at least. MOTM

(Death) - Kane - you might have one lives, he doesn't care, he'll get you on the tenth.

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monkeynick said:

I'm amazed that some people thought Lamela had a decent game, I thought he was poor and just flitted about and did hid rolling the ball backwards whilst hopping thing a few times, that said he wasn't alone.

Our passing was so poor I really thought that there must've been a gale blowing or an icy pitch or something that wasn't obvious on the tv.

In Aurier we have found something I'm not sure we needed, our very own Emmanuel Eboue, an athletic clown who makes me wince every time he's chasing back.
At least against Palace we were so far up the pitch he could concentrate on wasting crosses, missing open goals and impersonating a flamingo when taking throw ins. His last ditch tackle has been mentioned in mitigation but I'd argue if Trippier had played we'd have been out of sight with his crossing.

Having said that these are games that pre Poch we'd lose, he has instilled determination (which should be a bare minimum) but the genius part is it is coupled with a genuine belief in each other across the squad. COYS

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glospur said:

So judging him on his multitude of misplaces simple passes, scuffed shots and losing the ball is indicative of someone who 'doesnt understand football?' What a horribly supercilious thing to say.

I love Eriksen, but he definitely wasn't good for all the reasons mentioned above. This was comfortbaly his worst game of the season. Even the commentators on the feed I was watching were commenting on how poor he was. Do they not understand football either?

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