Match Ratings Ratings vs Swansea

Ionman34 · Mar 18, 2018

Gilzeanking said:
Mmm like us at Old Trafford vs Fergie era Utd.

Indeed. Even when 3 up at half time it THAT game, you could see the team expected to lose as soon as their first goal went in.

Psychology plays a huge part in any performance. If you expect to lose then it’s almost a self fulfilling prophecy, so we have to take that into account due to the reputation this team has built up over the last few years.

Pundits regularly say the opposition “didn’t turn up,” when it is likely that they actually did but were expecting to lose, influencing their play, they’re looking for damage limitation rather than a win.

Oh how times have changed.

jezz · Mar 18, 2018

mpickard2087 said:
I wasn't mentioning any names (though I appreciate I was posting off the back of BC's post that was drawing ire and he was digging out Sissoko), just on the point that the way it went it would have been a nice game for anyone to play in development wise (which seemed to be getting ridiculed, but it really was such an easy game) and that this game was one you cant take anything from. We were neat and tidy and professional across the park, but I don't think anyone should get praise for that game because it wasn't even a contest, that goes for Dier (see all the stuff about his passing), Lamela (and his apparent all-round wonderfulness), Eriksen (that was apparently a 10/10 performance), and yes Sissoko.

Basically, there shouldn't have been a ratings thread this week

Which begs the question why are commenting on the ratings thread when you believe there should be none☺

mpickard2087 · Mar 18, 2018

jezz said:
Which begs the question why are commenting on the ratings thread when you believe there should be none☺

What can I say, some of you lot trigger me.

Ionman34 · Mar 18, 2018

slartibartfast said:
Me and my Dad were talking about this a while back. You watch teams play, the way they set up etc, and then when we play them its like they seem to change completely and just sit deep far more than they do against other top 6 teams. Might be looking through lilywhite tinted glasses but thats what it seems to me.

Us and City really, and it’s not a lillywhite tint, the evidence is right there and has been commented on by more than just Spurs fans.

Teams regularly set out to “park the bus” against us, there was a time that it was a good tactic. Now we are able to break that down regularly, with the only real reason we don’t put these teams to the sword being our own profligacy in the final third.

The addition of Moura I think has been masterful here. I really do think he’ll tear it up next season, in much the same way Salah has this season, so opposition teams will have further doubt in their minds about how to set up, with greater fear over the effectiveness of their own tactics.

I am hugely excited about us next season.

Ionman34 · Mar 18, 2018

mpickard2087 said:
I wasn't mentioning any names (though I appreciate I was posting off the back of BC's post that was drawing ire and he was digging out Sissoko), just on the point that the way it went it would have been a nice game for anyone to play in development wise (which seemed to be getting ridiculed, but it really was such an easy game) and that this game was one you cant take anything from. We were neat and tidy and professional across the park, but I don't think anyone should get praise for that game because it wasn't even a contest, that goes for Dier (see all the stuff about his passing), Lamela (and his apparent all-round wonderfulness), Eriksen (that was apparently a 10/10 performance), and yes Sissoko.

Basically, there shouldn't have been a ratings thread this week

LOL.

We’re fans, not analysts, which some seem to forget on here. From a personal perspective, I’ll rate on the performance alone, not on the performance relative to the quality of the opposition or how certain performances might be different were better opposition in front of us. Experience, both playing and watching, tells me that performance levels differ from game to game, often raising a level dependent on the opposition. So I don’t caveat as it’s a pointless exercise. You also have to factor in the psychological effect one team has on another. As I posted to Slartibartfast, we’re unbeaten against Swansea over 16 matches, we have a psychological edge over them, they’re expecting to be beaten and that reflected in their performance. Add to that the fact we got into their faces, played with confidence and purpose, then it can look like a training exercise. But that is as a result of a combination of factors that this team imposed, not because Swansea couldn’t be bothered, IMO at any rate.

scat1620 · Mar 18, 2018

Mr Pink said:
It's just the general attitude towards him really, from the same posters.

Well, I'm one of those posters. I'm sorry you don't like it, but I just don't rate Sissoko and I've seen enough of him to know I never will. I don't think that holding that general opinion on Sissoko stops me from recognising the occasions when he plays to a perfectly reasonable standard (like yesterday).

Mr Pink · Mar 18, 2018

scat1620 said:
Well, I'm one of those posters. I'm sorry you don't like it, but I just don't rate Sissoko and I've seen enough of him to know I never will. I don't think that holding that general opinion on Sissoko stops me from recognising the occasions when he plays to a perfectly reasonable standard (like yesterday).

Eh, I'm talking about the same people who are repeatedly critical of him.

I wasn't aiming anything at you. Nothing to do with rating him etc

scat1620 · Mar 18, 2018

Mr Pink said:
Eh, I'm talking about the same people who are repeatedly critical of him.

I wasn't aiming anything at you. Nothing to do with rating him etc

Fair enough. I don't know, I'm not getting a sense that the knives have been out for him recently anywhere near as much as they used to be. I've had the impression that most people in the Don't Rate Him And Want Him Sold In The Next Window camp (of which I'm a member) seem to be generally resigned to the fact that he's here until at least this summer and have eased up on the rants in recent weeks: maybe you're seeing more of that than I am.

Mr Pink · Mar 18, 2018

scat1620 said:
Fair enough. I don't know, I'm not getting a sense that the knives have been out for him recently anywhere near as much as they used to be. I've had the impression that most people in the Don't Rate Him And Want Him Sold In The Next Window camp (of which I'm a member) seem to be generally resigned to the fact that he's here until at least this summer and have eased up on the rants in recent weeks: maybe you're seeing more of that than I am.

Maybe mate, I don't know. Just feels like it.

Gb160 · Mar 18, 2018

scat1620 said:
Well, I'm one of those posters. I'm sorry you don't like it, but I just don't rate Sissoko and I've seen enough of him to know I never will. I don't think that holding that general opinion on Sissoko stops me from recognising the occasions when he plays to a perfectly reasonable standard (like yesterday).

I feel that these threads suffer because of attitudes like this, about various players.
We all rate/dont rate different players differently, but to completely rule out even the idea of changing your mind I find a bit odd tbh.

Bus-Conductor · Mar 18, 2018

Ionman34 said:
I didn’t get excited about anything MP, I made the observation that Sissoko is improving and that I was happy for him, nothing more. He’ll I even stated earlier that MOTM was Eriksen in probably one of the most one sided votes this season.

The point was why does any decent performance from Sissoko have to be caveated by the quality of the opposition when everyone else gets a pass? The only logical answer is that it is agenda driven.

He’s a Spurs player, trying his hardest to have a positive influence on the games he is playing in, why is it so hard for some to just recognise this and say “we’ll played son?”

Who said everyone gets a pass. I didn’t praise anyone. I didn’t even do a ratings post because it so meaningless.

And nobody, including me, criticised Sissoko’s overall performance.

Archibald&Crooks · Mar 18, 2018

Bus-Conductor said:
At least press him properly Sissoko, you're doing fuck all else

JimmyG2 · Mar 18, 2018

We are not assessing any individual
on a world perspective as a footballer.
Eriksen is not always brilliant and MOM
but on their performance in a single match.
I think overall that Sissoko is a limited player
but he played well in the context of the game yesterday.
His abilities, limited as they are
were showcased against Swansea to advantage.
I'm happy with that.

scat1620 · Mar 18, 2018

Gb160 said:
I feel that these threads suffer because of attitudes like this, about various players.
We all rate/dont rate different players differently, but to completely rule out even the idea of changing your mind I find a bit odd tbh.

I don't feel that way about most players, but when I've seen 5 years of a now-28 year old midfielder plying his trade in the Premier League, and my view of him throughout that time is that he's a limited footballer with technique levels that I don't think are sufficient to be a success in the Spurs squad of the last few seasons, I hardly think I'm making a "Marcus Edwards will never make it at the top level"-style leap (as a random example) to think that it's massively, massively unlikely that Sissoko will improve on the things I don't like about his game to an extent that he turns my opinion round on him. Maybe you're not keen on me choosing the word "never", and in which case fair enough, I'll concede the semantic argument.

But just like I've seen enough Michael Bay films over a long enough period to know that he's almost certain not to make a movie that I will consider a great in the future, I've also seen plenty enough of Sissoko to make a pretty confident judgement that he's not a player who I will ever rate as a footballer I want to watch play for Spurs.

jezz · Mar 18, 2018

Archibald&Crooks said:

Nothing like the truth to mug you off

Bus-Conductor · Mar 18, 2018

Archibald&Crooks said:

To be fair that was the twenty something minute of the game, and he wasn't doing a lot then. But here's my full list of match thread Sissoko-isms from yesterday for completeness:

Half time:

Bus-Conductor said:
To all those saying Sissoko has played well, how about we wait until Swansea do something other than sit down on masse 20 yards from their goal.

He's done nothing wrong. But the vast majority of what he's done is so basic it would be fucking unbelievable if he had done something worng. Even Dier's been more ambitious.

We could be playing with Corroll and Sung-yung as our CM2 and we'd be more purposeful than with Dier and Sissoko against a team who have pretty much offered no pressure at all.

We've played well as a team, but we have not been tested at all. It's the easiest half of football we've had all season. We've thoroughly merited the 2 goal lead, Eriksen's been sublime, and I really like the fluidity of our forwards, it makes us hard to defend against and with Lamela and Eriksen out there we have two players capable seeing a through ball.

be interesting to see what happens now Swansea have absolutely fuck all to lose. They have got to have a go now, and with the players we have out there, Moura could get more of a look in on the counter this half.

Just after half time:

Bus-Conductor said:
Fucking get into him Sissoko

Lamela's goal:

Bus-Conductor said:
Great vision by Sissoko to pick out Lamela there.*

*~~Fake~~ Phomsey news

His shot:

Bus-Conductor said:
woohaaay

Gb160 · Mar 18, 2018

scat1620 said:
I don't feel that way about most players, but when I've seen 5 years of a now-28 year old midfielder plying his trade in the Premier League, and my view of him throughout that time is that he's a limited footballer with technique levels that I don't think are sufficient to be a success in the Spurs squad of the last few seasons, I hardly think I'm making a "Marcus Edwards will never make it at the top level"-style leap (as a random example) to think that it's massively, massively unlikely that Sissoko will improve on the things I don't like about his game to an extent that he turns my opinion round on him. Maybe you're not keen on me choosing the word "never", and in which case fair enough, I'll concede the semantic argument.

But just like I've seen enough Michael Bay films over a long enough period to know that he's almost certain not to make a movie that I will consider a great in the future, I've also seen plenty enough of Sissoko to make a pretty confident judgement that he's not a player who I will ever rate as a footballer I want to watch play for Spurs.

Fair enough, I just find it very odd that a fan on the internet can be so very confident in their analysis.
I'm mean, weirder things have happened, and you're just leaving yourself open to look a bit daft mate.

SpursSince1980 · Mar 18, 2018

Look, it's obvious Sissoko has technical limitations. But in the past he has done well accentuating the positive aspects of his game: strength, stamina, and agression. Before Spurs these were the key attributes that made him a French international.

Somewhere along the line he lost confidence. Badly. And that's the Sissoko we have seen over the last season or so. I don't think it's for lack of effort, but rather the mental part wasn't functioning at 100 percent.

Yesterday i saw a Sissoko similar to the one who showed up at Newcastle on his good days. He seemed more confident and focused. Which i was delighted to see. Others can marginalize the merits of the opposition, but that shouldn't cheapen his effort.

He's still Sissoko, and will never be technically the best. But if he can take confidence from yesterday, it serves the whole team well.

Was he MoM? Hell no. Eriksen, of course. But to me, he won the 'most improved player' badge instead!

scat1620 · Mar 18, 2018

Gb160 said:
Fair enough, I just find it very odd that a fan on the internet can be so very confident in their analysis.
I'm mean, weirder things have happened, and you're just leaving yourself open to look a bit daft mate.

I'm prepared to take that risk. What can I say; I guess I'm just a badass.

Honestly though, I genuinely don't think I'm making an 'out there' prediction. In addition to thinking that 28-year-old, settled Premier League known-quantity Sissoko is very unlikely to turn me round in the next few years, I also think it's very unlikely that I'll do an about-face in the same timeframe on my opinion that 30-year-old Lionel Messi will continue to be a very good player indeed. Maybe it's just me, but I don't feel like I'm making a particularly risky bet in holding those two opinions.

Gb160 · Mar 18, 2018

scat1620 said:
I'm prepared to take that risk. What can I say; I guess I'm just a badass.

Honestly though, I genuinely don't think I'm making an 'out there' prediction. In addition to thinking that 28-year-old, settled Premier League known-quantity Sissoko is very unlikely to turn me round in the next few years, I also think it's very unlikely that I'll do an about-face in the same timeframe on my opinion that 30-year-old Lionel Messi will continue to be a very good player indeed. Maybe it's just me, but I don't feel like I'm making a particularly risky bet in holding those two opinions.

I'd question the judgment of anyone who didn't think Bad Boys was great mate, you're obviously a mentalist.

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