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Player watch: Toby Alderweireld

Ossie85

Rio de la Plata
Aug 2, 2008
3,916
13,215
While I agree, maybe missing Toby was the reason Juve was able to defeat us.

Without Toby we're a very good team, but with a fit Toby we're a team capable of challenging for everything as he makes far less mistakes in defense than Sanchez currently does.

What you gain in experience you lose in pace. Maybe Toby could've prevented the goals, but he may have not been able to save us in other occasions where Sanchez's pace saved us
 
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ralvy

AVB my love
Jun 26, 2012
2,505
4,603
Yeah maybe, but he wasn't fit. And when since he's declared himself fit, he's looked rusty as heck. And he's missed a seasons worth of games across the last two years. I don't for a second want to play down how good he can be, but we've managed a lot without him, and is he ever going to be fit enough for long enough? Without knowing all the medical stuff, it could be that we'd be getting a great deal at £50m.

Maybe it shouldn't be all about money.

To me, we would have more to gain by keeping him one more year and letting him go on a free, all while Sanchez, Dier and Foyth keep learning to master the CB position by training and sometimes playing along sides both Jan and Toby.

I know a lot of people would think this is an stupid idea, and this totally isn't how modern football works, and Levy would probably have an stroke by the mere thought of it, but the Jan-Toby partnership is a once in a lifetime kinda thing and we should try squeezing as much as we can from it, and I don't mean money.
 

DiamondLites

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
4,630
13,062
If he goes, he goes. Jan has been the superior player for the last 18 months or so in my books and we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg with how good Sanchez will be. Add in Foyth who looks a real player, and Dier can move back either on a full time basis or to fill in when required

If we can get a young player like De Ligt in as well with half an eye on replacing Jan in a few years then all the better, but I’m not worried about finishing our season and our future because Toby wants to chase the Yankee dollar
 

dricha1

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2005
1,311
2,579
If he goes, he goes. Jan has been the superior player for the last 18 months or so in my books and we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg with how good Sanchez will be. Add in Foyth who looks a real player, and Dier can move back either on a full time basis or to fill in when required

If we can get a young player like De Ligt in as well with half an eye on replacing Jan in a few years then all the better, but I’m not worried about finishing our season and our future because Toby wants to chase the Yankee dollar

Well arguably our best form has been without Toby this season.

Poch could try and gain an advantage by asking Toby to help us win the FA Cup - but who do you drop? Go to a back 3 and Son misses out.

It looks increasingly like Poch has cut his losses and Toby will be bit-part, if that, until the season end which isn’t ideal for him with a World Cup to come, but then that’s not our problem
 

Hercules

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2014
5,694
156,565
Maybe it shouldn't be all about money.

To me, we would have more to gain by keeping him one more year and letting him go on a free, all while Sanchez, Dier and Foyth keep learning to master the CB position by training and sometimes playing along sides both Jan and Toby.

I know a lot of people would think this is an stupid idea, and this totally isn't how modern football works, and Levy would probably have an stroke by the mere thought of it, but the Jan-Toby partnership is a once in a lifetime kinda thing and we should try squeezing as much as we can from it, and I don't mean money.

Not going to happen! Be SHOCKED if that changed. There is actually better and younger out there. Media not far off our supposed interests. I don’t believe Toby is the same, along with his injuries. Let’s get real please. Commercial decision to sell in excess of 45m, we cannot ignore. And bring in a quality CH (versatile) with presence, pace, and distribution.
 

bubble07

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2004
22,959
29,896
What do you suggest we do then?

He deserves to be paid the same as any centre back in the league so pay him. He should start against Chelsea and prove his fitness for the remainder of the season. If he does, give him 120k a week and a 2m signing on bonus on september 1st for every year he stays. Think of the message alone it would send to the other clubs. It seems there is a 3m discrepancy with what he wants and what levy wants to pay him each year. By giving him a 2m annual "loyalty" bonus could swing it. Who else are we going to get instead? We need experience and we need continuity and we need to tell fuckers like united city chelsea barca madird bayern psg to go fuck themselves

He is world class. We cannot improve him so we must keep him
 

JayB

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2011
6,652
26,046
Maybe it shouldn't be all about money.

To me, we would have more to gain by keeping him one more year and letting him go on a free, all while Sanchez, Dier and Foyth keep learning to master the CB position by training and sometimes playing along sides both Jan and Toby.

I know a lot of people would think this is an stupid idea, and this totally isn't how modern football works, and Levy would probably have an stroke by the mere thought of it, but the Jan-Toby partnership is a once in a lifetime kinda thing and we should try squeezing as much as we can from it, and I don't mean money.
I would tend to agree were it not for the fact that if his release clause becomes active we lose any measure of control over where he goes. Of the clubs that have been linked to him, it's probably the case that only PSG would offer the kind of wages that any of our top-six rivals would give Toby in order to prise him away from us, greatly bolstering their own defense and significantly weakening us in one fell swoop like what happened with Walker.

So we would not only lose out on somewhere around 25m, we'd probably be looking at Liverpool, United, or Chelsea winding up much stronger. IMO the prudent thing to do, assuming he refuses to extend his contract without a release clause, is to sell him abroad for the biggest fee we can get this summer and use the money to strengthen the squad as much as we can.
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
Failure to keep our best players dressed up as successfully getting rid of trouble makers/greedy players.

The reality as we all know is that another of our first team starters is being sold to a domestic rival because we have failed to keep them happy.

He’s started 10 league matches. We’ve lost 20% and drew 20%, winning 60%.

In the 20 game he hasn’t started, we’ve lost 15%, drawn 25%, and again won 60%.

My point? His presence in the first team has had little impact this season, his absence has had little impact. He’s undeniably a great defender, but clearly not a vital member of our first team anymore, if a first teamer at all given how much faith our manager has in the admittedly still raw Sanchez.

At the end of the day our very worst case scenario is losing a 30 year old Toby in 2019 for twice what we paid for him, having never blown that much in wages on him due to his own bloody minded refusal to extend, and with him having barely played in almost two seasons due to the emergence of Sanchez (who by then will have two seasons experience).

It’s unusual, but we are in a situation where our top class centre back could leave for less than his value if he doesn’t renew and yet we hold all the cards. If he ends up not renewing and leaving for £25m in July 2019, by then we’ll have moved on anyway (we’ve already done our succession planning) and he’s have lost a huge chunk of his career. I doubt the sides who could afford his wage demands will even still be interested at that point, maybe PSG.

If Toby doesn’t intend on staying, he’d better have an amazing world cup which convinces some club to pay a world record for a centre back, otherwise he’s pretty fucked (as much as is possible for someone earning £10m from one 4 year contract with Spurs).
 

Montalbano

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2018
3,917
18,686
Can't blame him if he goes to Barcelona

bring in a quality CH (versatile) with presence, pace, and distribution.

If Toby really does go, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing Toby off to Barca and them sending Umtiti our way. He certainly has presence, pace, distribution, youth, and not to mention he's left footed. A Sanchez/Umtiti partnership could surpass the greatness of our current Belgian one. Of course there's De Ligt as a fantastic option too, who if we were to sign this summer could be a home grown player for us.
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
He deserves to be paid the same as any centre back in the league so pay him. He should start against Chelsea and prove his fitness for the remainder of the season. If he does, give him 120k a week and a 2m signing on bonus on september 1st for every year he stays. Think of the message alone it would send to the other clubs. It seems there is a 3m discrepancy with what he wants and what levy wants to pay him each year. By giving him a 2m annual "loyalty" bonus could swing it. Who else are we going to get instead? We need experience and we need continuity and we need to tell fuckers like united city chelsea barca madird bayern psg to go fuck themselves

He is world class. We cannot improve him so we must keep him

We pay around 50% of our turnover on player salaries, not dissimilar to Arsenal and the Man clubs. Only Chelsea and Liverpool pay much higher percentages (both high 60s). We can’t break that model as we don’t have a multi billionaire. Liverpool will be fucked.
 

thelak

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,166
6,950
He’s started 10 league matches. We’ve lost 20% and drew 20%, winning 60%.

In the 20 game he hasn’t started, we’ve lost 15%, drawn 25%, and again won 60%.

My point? His presence in the first team has had little impact this season, his absence has had little impact. He’s undeniably a great defender, but clearly not a vital member of our first team anymore, if a first teamer at all given how much faith our manager has in the admittedly still raw Sanchez.

At the end of the day our very worst case scenario is losing a 30 year old Toby in 2019 for twice what we paid for him, having never blown that much in wages on him due to his own bloody minded refusal to extend, and with him having barely played in almost two seasons due to the emergence of Sanchez (who by then will have two seasons experience).

It’s unusual, but we are in a situation where our top class centre back could leave for less than his value if he doesn’t renew and yet we hold all the cards. If he ends up not renewing and leaving for £25m in July 2019, by then we’ll have moved on anyway (we’ve already done our succession planning) and he’s have lost a huge chunk of his career. I doubt the sides who could afford his wage demands will even still be interested at that point, maybe PSG.

If Toby doesn’t intend on staying, he’d better have an amazing world cup which convinces some club to pay a world record for a centre back, otherwise he’s pretty fucked (as much as is possible for someone earning £10m from one 4 year contract with Spurs).

Isn’t the risk with he he stays scenario that he will be able to choose who he goes to if his clause is met - so more chance of joining a rival vs if we sell him on our terms this summer
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
19,337
329,027
Then what do you think will happen when Sanchez gets even better?

Yep, Man City will get him.

This needs to stop. Part of our problem is having a young team so we cant keep selling experienced premier league players every season

Mate, if they want to leave they will leave. You can delay it like Arsenal have done and they leave for nothing and go wherever they like. Look at the mess they are in now contract wise. There is nothing any club can do if a player is determined to go. You can't make them sign new contracts.
 

thebenjamin

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2008
12,164
38,545
If Toby really does go, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing Toby off to Barca and them sending Umtiti our way. He certainly has presence, pace, distribution, youth, and not to mention he's left footed. A Sanchez/Umtiti partnership could surpass the greatness of our current Belgian one. Of course there's De Ligt as a fantastic option too, who if we were to sign this summer could be a home grown player for us.

Can't see that happening, Umtiti is a huge crowd favourite in the Nou Camp
 

Roynie

Well-Known Member
Oct 2, 2007
3,116
3,882
Serious (very) from Spanish giants and PSG I believe

That's answered the question that was fermenting in my mind. RM have had a poor season in La Liga and will, reportedly, be strengthening in the summer. Also reportedly, in order to buy they will have to sell. IF that is the case they could well be looking at Toby and they may have a player that we would like. Irrespective of the latter there do seem to be a number of young CBs with great potential, and we know how good Poch is at improving defenders particularly!
 
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