The Y Word

NayimFTHL · Aug 6, 2019

absolute bobbins said:
Erm wut? I’m Jewish and in complete support of continued Yid chants. Nayim is trying to play saviour and using a inconsequential group to argue his nonsense point.

So just because your jewish and support spurs and YOU say it's ok to use it alls good then?

More than 97% of spurs fans are not Jewish some chant it but the majority don't. I've made my points clearly and just because u don't agree don't force your opinion on others. Prick

Dinghy · Aug 6, 2019

NayimFTHL said:
So just because your jewish and support spurs and YOU say it's ok to use it alls good then?

More than 97% of spurs fans are not Jewish some chant it but the majority don't. I've made my points clearly and just because u don't agree don't force your opinion on others. Prick

Majority don't? Really? You know this how?

absolute bobbins · Aug 6, 2019

NayimFTHL said:
So just because your jewish and support spurs and YOU say it's ok to use it alls good then?

More than 97% of spurs fans are not Jewish some chant it but the majority don't. I've made my points clearly and just because u don't agree don't force your opinion on others. Prick

Ok petal, settle down. You have a right to your opinion but when you put it in the open don’t be surprised when it gets laughed at or derided.

Also, you’re going to need to cite sources for your stats and apologise for calling me a prick before I engage further.

pook · Aug 6, 2019

edit: scratch that. carry on.

NayimFTHL · Aug 6, 2019

absolute bobbins said:
Ok petal, settle down. You have a right to your opinion but when you put it in the open don’t be surprised when it gets laughed at or derided.

Also, you’re going to need to cite sources for your stats and apologise for calling me a prick before I engage further.

I'm glad you've come down a level. Likewise I take back calling you a prick out of frustration. I stick by my points above and as for stats and sources there were surveys conducted over the last few years by the club and independently. Il dig them out when I have the time.

JCRD · Aug 6, 2019

Im not Jewish but when I sing 'Yid Army' i associate Yid with Spurs. In any way shape or form I associate the term with Spurs and thats it. I dont associate it with anything offensive etc because it doesnt enter my mind

Although if it is offensive for the Jewish communities etc then thats where i guess it should stop but for me it is just solely a spurs thing

chrissivad · Aug 6, 2019

For anyone who will continue to use this in songs/chants.

Is there any situations you wouldn't use it?
In a pub, walking to the ground ect?
Or no issues at all?

TorontoYid · Aug 6, 2019

Yiddish is a language

NayimFTHL said:
So just because your jewish and support spurs and YOU say it's ok to use it alls good then?

More than 97% of spurs fans are not Jewish some chant it but the majority don't. I've made my points clearly and just because u don't agree don't force your opinion on others. Prick

Yid is a tern to describe Ashkenazi Jewish people who speak the Yiddish language. It only becomes racist if people take offense and give the word the power to upset. There are many words that were once insulting and now are not and vice versa.

At the end of the day, some will find it offensive and others won't but calling someone a prick is offensive all the time and unnecessary as it would be a very short debate if we all agreed on everything other than Spurs are awesome and Arsenal suck.

TwanYid · Aug 7, 2019

How about this: we'll stop singing "Yiddo-Yiddo--Yiddo-Yiddo" and stop chanting "Yid AR-MAY" as soon as the various antisemitic chants, noises and songs which regularly emanate from fans of various other clubs- and which are aimed directly at our supporters- cease to exist.

yankspurs · Aug 7, 2019

NayimFTHL said:
Open your eyes

https://www.worldjewishcongress.org...-be-no-tolerance-for-use-of-slur-yid-1-5-2019

1) The world jewish congress does not speak for me, or many jews out there. They are 1 organization out of many organizations. I have a massive issue with organizations that claim to speak for all people as this one does. Basing any decision on the opinion of one group is wrong, IMO.

2) When you read the statement, they are doing chelsea’s bidding(whom they have some kind of partnership with obviously initiated by chelsea to appease the masses in response to their support base’s rampant anti semitism). Once you know thish, put 2 and 2 together. When you do, you will see that they are essentially asking us to stop because it apparently causes chelsea supporters to be anti semitic which is so fucking stupid and also offensive.

Also, Chelsea taking the lead on the anti semitic and racism issue, eh? By that, did they mean chelsea supporters subjecting Spurs supporters to gas chamber songs, hissing sounds and subjecting black football players(and non football players) to the n word, monkey noises, etc 5-10 times a year with mostly little punishment handed down at all by the club or FA? That kind of lead? Yeah, chelsea football club can go fuck itself.

riggi · Aug 7, 2019

chrissivad said:
For anyone who will continue to use this in songs/chants.

Is there any situations you wouldn't use it?
In a pub, walking to the ground ect?
Or no issues at all?

I don’t really use it outside of football.

wrd · Aug 7, 2019

I think this is where we are as a society in terms of people not accepting how words are used within context because the word Yid history was derived from the language and was used in a friendly manner. They're words in this world which have only ever had 1 context and 1 context only which people simply should not use. I don't think Yid falls within that category personally because it's history contextually has not always been derogatory to a particular group of people.

I find this conversation difficult because I'm a big believer in that we shouldn't let peoples offence overshadow context but I don't see this as a hill I want to die on. The problem is where is the line as a society where we are deciding what people can and can't say.

Coyboy · Aug 7, 2019

I wonder if West Ham and Chelsea fans received a survey asking them if they ever hissed or made jokes about the Holocaust or foreskin outside of football.

FibreOpticJesus · Aug 7, 2019

Dinghy said:
You can just go to the questionaire...

https://official.tottenhamhotspur.com/444I-MJ0U-OGEUP-GUSI4-1/c.aspx

Unfortunately this survey appears to be open to anybody with no verification as to who you support. I am pretty sure that they will get responses in huge numbers from Chelsea/West Ham/Millwall/Arsenal ....fans. The survey is therefore meaningless.

Duke of Northumberland · Aug 7, 2019

FibreOpticJesus said:
Unfortunately this survey appears to be open to anybody with no verification as to who you support. I am pretty sure that they will get responses in huge numbers from Chelsea/West Ham/Millwall/Arsenal ....fans. The survey is therefore meaningless.

Really? There's no membership number filter question? That does undermine it as a genuine data collection exercise. In terms of the questions it comes across as a campaign to get people to change their minds against using the chant.

'O Zio · Aug 7, 2019

wrd said:
I think this is where we are as a society in terms of people not accepting how words are used within context because the word Yid history was derived from the language and was used in a friendly manner. They're words in this world which have only ever had 1 context and 1 context only which people simply should not use. I don't think Yid falls within that category personally because it's history contextually has not always been derogatory to a particular group of people.

I find this conversation difficult because I'm a big believer in that we shouldn't let peoples offence overshadow context but I don't see this as a hill I want to die on. The problem is where is the line as a society where we are deciding what people can and can't say.

Agree. The word Yid has been (and still is to many people) a completely inoffensive word.

A small minority of society for a (relatively) small amount of time use(d) it in a derogatory way. However, the vast majority of contexts in which the word Yid is used are in a non-derogatory way because it's either a Jewish/Yiddish person saying it or it's a Spurs fan showing solidarity with Jewish fans OR also just Spurs fans singing about Spurs without even thinking about the Jewish connotations because it's become synonymous with a Spurs fan/player nowadays.

I don't see why a tiny minority of people using it to be offensive should mean that the vast majority of people who use it in a positive way should suddenly be banned from saying it.

riggi · Aug 7, 2019

FibreOpticJesus said:
Unfortunately this survey appears to be open to anybody with no verification as to who you support. I am pretty sure that they will get responses in huge numbers from Chelsea/West Ham/Millwall/Arsenal ....fans. The survey is therefore meaningless.

Agreed.

Navin R Johnson · Aug 7, 2019

wrd said:
I think this is where we are as a society in terms of people not accepting how words are used within context because the word Yid history was derived from the language and was used in a friendly manner. They're words in this world which have only ever had 1 context and 1 context only which people simply should not use. I don't think Yid falls within that category personally because it's history contextually has not always been derogatory to a particular group of people.

I find this conversation difficult because I'm a big believer in that we shouldn't let peoples offence overshadow context but I don't see this as a hill I want to die on. The problem is where is the line as a society where we are deciding what people can and can't say.

I'm a big believer too in the concept of context, the N, P and Q words are all used inclusively, benignly and abusively, it's a tone of voice or a look on someone's face that makes the word abusive, we sing it with pride. I only ever use the word in the ground or around fellow Tottenham fans-there's your context, I use the word inclusively.

However, if a Jewish person asked me not to sing it around them I wouldn't, hence the boldened piece above.

wrd · Aug 7, 2019

Navin R Johnson said:
I'm a big believer too in the concept of context, the N, P and Q words are all used inclusively, benignly and abusively, it's a tone of voice or a look on someone's face that makes the word abusive, we sing it with pride. I only ever use the word in the ground or around fellow Tottenham fans-there's your context, I use the word inclusively.

However, if a Jewish person asked me not to sing it around them I wouldn't, hence the boldened piece above.

This is why I find the issue difficult because I would in your scenario I'd more than likely not bother using the word because it's just not worth the effort but then I'm undermining my beliefs in terms of context so I become part of the problem by allowing people to decide that their choice to be offended is greater than the context of which I chose to use the word.

pook · Aug 7, 2019

FibreOpticJesus said:
Unfortunately this survey appears to be open to anybody with no verification as to who you support. I am pretty sure that they will get responses in huge numbers from Chelsea/West Ham/Millwall/Arsenal ....fans. The survey is therefore meaningless.

I'm pretty sure that it asked for membership #s. Even if non-members are able to take the survey, they should be able to distinguish the responses of members from the whole.

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