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£48m has bought good depth, but what about the balance and cohesion?

Coyboy

The Double of 1961 is still The Double
Dec 3, 2004
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sorry to say, but the sound of that jigsaw doesn't excite me very much, nor do i expect it to be much more than a top 7-8 side. maybe that's what we are but surely in the summer we've got to be at least trying to bring in a couple of world class players.

That wouldn't break my heart. I would rather we looked to improve gradually and steadily than rush to get into the top four. Essentially we are where we were five years ago fighting relegation under Pleat. We have a good manager and an excellent squad but in the near term we need to stay up, if not we will be nearer the top 7-8 of the Championship.
 

Coyboy

The Double of 1961 is still The Double
Dec 3, 2004
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How many world class players do Villa have? None, I'd say. Everton? Arterta at a long stretch, but however good the national team are if you don't get into the squad I wouldn't say you are world class. How many do we have? I would say it is likley we have more than those two put together (Modric, Keane, Woodgate, King) depending on how you class 'world class'.

But they are a team and play as a team, home and away. That is what we need to aspire to, not signing fancy dans.
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
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We needed goalkeeping cover, defensive cover, some bite in midfield and some goals upfront.

I think Cudicini, Chimbonda, Palacios and Defoe sorted that out. For me the Keane transfer wouldn't have happened if Defoe hadn't broken his foot and I am worried about how we will accomodate them both when JD is back. But for now Keane should be able to get us the goals to keep us up and that's the main goal.

I think we could have done with a big man upfront to cover Pav and a left sided player to add a bit of balance. I think the big man idea went out the window as the striker money needed to be spent on a goalscorer, and we obviously tried to get various left wingers but couldn't get the targets we wanted. Better to stick with Bale/Dos Santos/Lennon/Modric/O'Hara than splash the cash on players who ultimately won't be good enough (though I'd have liked to see us bid for N'Zogbia).

All in all I think Harry has covered the areas we needed covering and has done it as well as can be expected in a January transfer window.

If it keeps us up that's all that matters for now. Once we've staved off relegation, we can continue the rebuilding process in the close season.
 

Simen

New Member
Aug 15, 2005
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I've got two questions: first, any news on Gilberto? I remember 'Arry said he probably wouldn't play anymore for Spurs. Will he be allowed to train with a Brazilian club (like Ghaly did last season with an Egyptian club), perhaps he can regain his form on confidence? Second, does anyone now who we are about to register for the UEFA-cup?
 

Kendall

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2007
38,502
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I've got two questions: first, any news on Gilberto? I remember 'Arry said he probably wouldn't play anymore for Spurs. Will he be allowed to train with a Brazilian club (like Ghaly did last season with an Egyptian club), perhaps he can regain his form on confidence? Second, does anyone now who we are about to register for the UEFA-cup?

Gilberto - not sure, I'm surprised nobody came in for him.

UEFA cup - We've already registered Cudicini, Chimbonda and Palacios. Hutton, Rose and another academy player (can't remember the name) are out.
 

SpurSince57

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
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Gilberto - not sure, I'm surprised nobody came in for him.

UEFA cup - We've already registered Cudicini, Chimbonda and Palacios. Hutton, Rose and another academy player (can't remember the name) are out.

Perhaps they watched his last couple of performances.
 

DavidsSpecs

Member
Jul 27, 2005
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2
How many world class players do Villa have? None, I'd say. Everton? Arterta at a long stretch, but however good the national team are if you don't get into the squad I wouldn't say you are world class. How many do we have? I would say it is likley we have more than those two put together (Modric, Keane, Woodgate, King) depending on how you class 'world class'.

But they are a team and play as a team, home and away. That is what we need to aspire to, not signing fancy dans.

You're right I know. As is SS57 - I know we need stability and that gradual progress is usually lasting progress. I think It's just getting used to the fact that after two top 5 finishes, instead of pushing on we've seemed to step back a bit - just hope the same thing doesn't happen again.

I guess by world class I'm just reminicising over the likes of Berbatov and Carrick who, if they were still here, would likely improve our team dramatically. I'm not craving the links with Villa or Arshavin per se but there are a certain level of players who can make the difference between a good and a great side. Villa probably don't have these players either but it would be interesting to see, assuming they finish 4th, if they can repeat it with another solid 'team' campaign or whether they do an Everton.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
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I definitely think its worth trying for world class players. At the end of the day, we should always try and sign the best players possible. As long as we dont put all our hopes on a world class player and not have enough time to find an alternative, which seemed to be the case in the summer with Arshavin. I think an example would be that we could possibly have an early attempt at signing Joe Cole in the summer. If Chelsea aren't willing to sell, then we could fall back on Downing instead, who is still a good player.

The only other world class player i can think of would be Gattuso. although if Appiah returns to his 2006 form then he too would be world class. So either one of those would be great too. Its well worth trying anyway.
 

DC_Boy

New Member
May 20, 2005
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month in month out we manage to get beat by teams lacking world class players

I'm not even sure how many 'prem level' players teams like hull bolton stoke wba had when they beat us

some/much of the problem is mental attitude, some of the problem is/has been lack of cover for players like gomes BAE Pav, some of the problem has been poor managerial decisions by HR & JR, and sometimes we get unlucky (sometimes we get lucky too of course)

oh and some of our fans often don't help matters either
 

sloth

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2005
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The current crop is very much a solution to keeping us up.

The selection problems with Hutton, Defoe/Keane etc will be tackled as and when, but for now we just need to stay in this league.

That seems a bit panicky to me, but maybe you're right. But when we do stay up, what then?

I wouldn't worry too much about the money spent to be honest. We always spend big money in the transfer window and keep the books balanced. We're in very good hands with Daniel Levy in financial terms and i see no reason to be concerned. I think its best to focus on the actual players signed, and let Daniel Levy worry about the costs. Most of which are paid over 55 years anyway, if you believe Steve Bruce :grin:
I didn't used to worry, but this window as been very unLevylike. Redknapp demands players on a short term criteria, but now there seems to be no long-termism in mind. We've gone from one extreme to the other.
Thats exactly right. We dont need to concern ourselves with top 6 yet, or even the top half as such. We just need to pull away from the bottom 3. And we have more than enough quality to do that.

What the new arrivals will also have though, is time to settle and gel with the team. Then, hopefully, next season, we'll hit the ground running.
We can't always deal with what's in front of our face. We need strategy as well as tactics otherwise we'll end up a Newcastle or Portsmouth.
 

Coyboy

The Double of 1961 is still The Double
Dec 3, 2004
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You're right I know. As is SS57 - I know we need stability and that gradual progress is usually lasting progress. I think It's just getting used to the fact that after two top 5 finishes, instead of pushing on we've seemed to step back a bit - just hope the same thing doesn't happen again.

I guess by world class I'm just reminicising over the likes of Berbatov and Carrick who, if they were still here, would likely improve our team dramatically. I'm not craving the links with Villa or Arshavin per se but there are a certain level of players who can make the difference between a good and a great side. Villa probably don't have these players either but it would be interesting to see, assuming they finish 4th, if they can repeat it with another solid 'team' campaign or whether they do an Everton.

Sure I agree, but you have to remember that Berbatov was signed from a middle of the road German club and Carrick from the Championship. Neither was world class. Berbatov now is and Carrick maybe is. I think Berbatov took to England like a duck to water and everyone was surprised how good he was and Carrick took up the challenge magnificently of being our fulcrum.

I don't see why the likes of Palacios, Modric, Woodgate, Corluka and maybe a few others cannot reach similar levels. Of course then they may be off to sunny Manchester but there isn't a whole lot we can do about that.
 

DogsOfWar

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2005
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Personally, I was very surprised by Redknapp's signings.

I expected the usual suspects, the Bellamys, Parkers and Bridges to come in but was pleasantly surprised.
The players he bought in as a stop gap were Chimbo (29) and Cudicini (35) so are good enough to play now whilst the younger first choices, Hutton and Gomes, return to fitness so I was happy about that.

But for me the signings of Defoe and even more so Palacios showed a much more long term signal of intent. He wanted these guys and at 24 and 26 they would appear to have been bought as players who he was going to shape the team around.
Up front he could have got Heskey in but he chose to pursue the 23 year old Kenwyne Jones instead. OK, he didn't get his man but as we now have Bent, Keane, Defoe and Pav it's not a priority.
Ditto for Downing, when he failed he looked to get a loan in as a short term remedy rather than panic buy.

Whilst the sound of Jones, Downing, Defoe and Palacios appear a bit underwhelming Redknapp obviously doesn't think so. He's seen enough of the Premiership to know which players are the best of the rest and in this aspect I would trust him.
Whilst many might not agree about this lot the fact is that they are all decent performers who fulfill functions that are missing from our team and considering their ages can contribute to this club in the long term.

My initial feeling about Harry is that he would gamble in the short term to try to secure instant success but I'm pleased to say I was wrong.
 

sloth

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Mar 7, 2005
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Personally, I was very surprised by Redknapp's signings.

I expected the usual suspects, the Bellamys, Parkers and Bridges to come in but was pleasantly surprised.
The players he bought in as a stop gap were Chimbo (29) and Cudicini (35) so are good enough to play now whilst the younger first choices, Hutton and Gomes, return to fitness so I was happy about that.

But for me the signings of Defoe and even more so Palacios showed a much more long term signal of intent. He wanted these guys and at 24 and 26 they would appear to have been bought as players who he was going to shape the team around.
Up front he could have got Heskey in but he chose to pursue the 23 year old Kenwyne Jones instead. OK, he didn't get his man but as we now have Bent, Keane, Defoe and Pav it's not a priority.
Ditto for Downing, when he failed he looked to get a loan in as a short term remedy rather than panic buy.

Whilst the sound of Jones, Downing, Defoe and Palacios appear a bit underwhelming Redknapp obviously doesn't think so. He's seen enough of the Premiership to know which players are the best of the rest and in this aspect I would trust him.
Whilst many might not agree about this lot the fact is that they are all decent performers who fulfill functions that are missing from our team and considering their ages can contribute to this club in the long term.

My initial feeling about Harry is that he would gamble in the short term to try to secure instant success but I'm pleased to say I was wrong.

I don't really get this. We signed Chimbo as stopgap for Hutton, but what about Corluka? Defoe and Palacious I can understand, but what about Keane? And you say we didn't panic buy? You say we have "Bent, Keane, Defoe and Pav it's not a priority." But what are the combinations? what happens if Pav gets injured? Why did we want a big target man in the first place? And finally we spent £48m and £30m of that on two players who can't play together and long-term we have reinforced areas in which we are strong and not areas where we're weak.
 

DC_Boy

New Member
May 20, 2005
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if it's true that we could have got Heskey that was a big miss as far as I can see - we so need another big striker- especially one who can help defend set pieces

though I'm not sure how good Heskey is at defending set pieces - but I don't think any of our current forwards including Pav are much good at it - maybe wrong but that's my impresssion
 

Coyboy

The Double of 1961 is still The Double
Dec 3, 2004
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I don't really get this. We signed Chimbo as stopgap for Hutton, but what about Corluka? Defoe and Palacious I can understand, but what about Keane? And you say we didn't panic buy? You say we have "Bent, Keane, Defoe and Pav it's not a priority." But what are the combinations? what happens if Pav gets injured? Why did we want a big target man in the first place? And finally we spent £48m and £30m of that on two players who can't play together and long-term we have reinforced areas in which we are strong and not areas where we're weak.

We didn't sign one player for a single reason. We signed Chimbonda because he is excellent going forward and our full backs have been pretty unimpressive in that respect this season. We signed him because Hutton is injured and hadn't excelled himself in the few games he played under Rednapp. We signed him because maybe Rednapp sees Corluka as a centre back long term, contrary to being a myopic, panic buy. We signed him because he can play decently across the defence. We signed him because we lack depth. We signed him because he was available, cheap, experienced and was part of a successful, fifth finishing, CC winning team.

We signed Keane for the same last reason as Chimbonda. We signed him because he is an excellent player with a stellar goalscoring record for us. We signed him because we lack leadership. We signed him because at times it seems we lack passion. We signed him because he is very likely to keep us up.

We did want a big target man but Sunderland wouldn't let Jones go and he signed a new contract. I don't know if we wanted Heskey but I wouldn't blame him for preferring Villa. Who else was there? An out of form, 25 mil RSC? No thanks.

As for combinations, we have many. Bent is very good on his own with good service. Pav and Defoe look like they can strike up a good partnership. Pav and Campbell have, on occassions, linked up well. I am sure that Keane can do well with all three, well at least Pav and Bent. As for Keane and Defoe, I am tired of saying it so see my signature.
 

SpurSince57

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
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How long King will be out and how often he'll figure for the remainder of this season (let alone next) is anyone's guess. The prognosis isn't good. There seem to be concerns creeping in over Woodgate's fitness, and there have to be major doubts over Hutton's future at the club given his injury record. Given that Corluka may be called up for CB duty and that Chimbo provides a far better attacking option down the right, I don't see the problem.

Defoe's out for most of the season, so if anything had happened to Pav (who unsurprisingly gives the impression of running on empty at times) or Bent, we would have been well and truly stuffed. We needed a replacement, a proven one. Can you think of anyone better than Keane? If Pav or Bent gets injured it's bad luck. What happens with Defoe is something we sort out in the future. What happens if Bent or Pav strikes up a lethal partnership with Keane? More cries of outrage and Conspiracy! from the JDFC, I expect.

And again, that £48m is pretty notional.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
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I've got to say that I'm reasonably happy with the signings Redknapp has made and accept the logic in all of them. Keane or Defoe would probably be my only bone of contention. As I said in the other thread, and argued at the time (a couple of years ago) I think it's a misnoma that Keane and Defoe can't play together. I would have preferred we bought a hold up guy to play with either of them, as both yield better with this type of partner, but I think in the summer Bent will be off and a hold up guy will be purchased.

I also think we are probably more balanced with 4 decent lefties kicking around that Redknapp could use BAE, Bale, Ohara, GDS. Not to mention the right footers we can play out there if necessary (Chimbonda, Modric, Bentley, Lennon)None are perfect but look around the prem and tell me how many clubs have perfect left sided options ? Very few.

I thought at the beginning of the season we had a great squad except for the strikers, which were conversely as bad as I can remember (I like Pav but after a long season and inevitably needing to adjust he was always going to struggle to have a meaningful impact immediately).
I now think that we have the 5th/6th best squad in the EPL. I think most ofthem have had 8 months together now, three of the new signing won't need to gel.

I think our biggest challenge is not what happens to the new deadwood, but the coaching and tactics and getting the best out of this squad of players. This is where managers like Oneil and Moyes excel. Redknapp needs to start proving me wrong and turning this great squad into a team, with hard work, coaching and tactics. I think he probably has the best and most balanced squad a spurs manager has had for two or three decades. I certainly can't remember a time when we had some many quality defensive, midfield and (nearly) attacking options.
 

sloth

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2005
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We didn't sign one player for a single reason. We signed Chimbonda because he is excellent going forward and our full backs have been pretty unimpressive in that respect this season. We signed him because Hutton is injured and hadn't excelled himself in the few games he played under Rednapp. We signed him because maybe Rednapp sees Corluka as a centre back long term, contrary to being a myopic, panic buy. We signed him because he can play decently across the defence. We signed him because we lack depth. We signed him because he was available, cheap, experienced and was part of a successful, fifth finishing, CC winning team.

We signed Keane for the same last reason as Chimbonda. We signed him because he is an excellent player with a stellar goalscoring record for us. We signed him because we lack leadership. We signed him because at times it seems we lack passion. We signed him because he is very likely to keep us up.

We did want a big target man but Sunderland wouldn't let Jones go and he signed a new contract. I don't know if we wanted Heskey but I wouldn't blame him for preferring Villa. Who else was there? An out of form, 25 mil RSC? No thanks.

As for combinations, we have many. Bent is very good on his own with good service. Pav and Defoe look like they can strike up a good partnership. Pav and Campbell have, on occassions, linked up well. I am sure that Keane can do well with all three, well at least Pav and Bent. As for Keane and Defoe, I am tired of saying it so see my signature.
Repeating "We signed him..." every sentence doesn't make your point stronger lol, but in a more serious mode, I acknowledge the short-term aspect of why Redknapp appointed cover for Corluka, but I think Gunter and DZ already adequately fulfilled that need. I've seen no evidence that Redknapp sees Corluka's best position in the centre and have seen him play only once there when we had no choice. Your other reasons don't take into account the team as it is or the cost of buying a player like Chimbo.

Again I could understand Keane or Defoe, but £30m on both is ridiculous, not because they aren't both individually worth around about their price-tags but because they can't play together and the money would imo have been better saved and spent in areas where we need players and on individuals who'll add long-term quality/value to the squad. I'm not sure I agree that Keane's a leader or an inspiration, in fact I'd rather say he's the opposite on the pitch, but maybe he's those things off it?

But i understand where you're coming from i just think you're listing reasons which look reasonable on paper but which, when examined individually, don't stack and don't connect. A bit like our team
 

sloth

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Mar 7, 2005
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How long King will be out and how often he'll figure for the remainder of this season (let alone next) is anyone's guess. The prognosis isn't good. There seem to be concerns creeping in over Woodgate's fitness, and there have to be major doubts over Hutton's future at the club given his injury record. Given that Corluka may be called up for CB duty and that Chimbo provides a far better attacking option down the right, I don't see the problem.

Defoe's out for most of the season, so if anything had happened to Pav (who unsurprisingly gives the impression of running on empty at times) or Bent, we would have been well and truly stuffed. We needed a replacement, a proven one. Can you think of anyone better than Keane? If Pav or Bent gets injured it's bad luck. What happens with Defoe is something we sort out in the future. What happens if Bent or Pav strikes up a lethal partnership with Keane? More cries of outrage and Conspiracy! from the JDFC, I expect.

And again, that £48m is pretty notional.

nothing notional whatsoever about it, it's £48m plain and simple.
 
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