“DL has done a great job backing my judgement and improving the squad and the club…”

[spurs_viola]

Imo praise would be "Daniel's doing a great job."

Self-serving praise is "Daniel's done a great job in backing my decisions."

The first says Levy should get the credit for the great job he's doing.

The second says I'm doing a great job and Levy should get the praise for backing me.

Exactly.
On your valuations, I really don't see anyone wanting to sign Kranjcar for 9.5 mil as your valuation suggested, not even at his best form let alone now that he has become a fringe player.
Same with Crouch - even the British managers like Hodgson or Bruce would not be allowed to pay 11.5 for him now. His age and limitations are likely to bring the price lower than the initial 9.5 Harry made Levy pay to Portsmouth. The only way his price tag may go up would be if Harry were to join another club and brought him there with him, persuading the new chairman to fork out more than the player is worth now.

 

[spurs_viola]

You would have to be a moron to call VDV a "Levy signing"...

It would be moronic to deny that Harry's part in that deal was no more than to agree to Levy's fantastic gift and go along with it. All depends on which conclusions you want and do not want to make. But all reports, comments and Harry's own admission point to Levy as the mastermind behind this deal.

 

[alamo]

Harry has gone out of his way (between his random waffling moments) to stress that the whole player signing process is a team effort. He or one of his trusted scouts has to give the go ahead before Levy goes and works his magic

 

[markiespurs]

It would be moronic to deny that Harry's part in that deal was no more than to agree to Levy's fantastic gift and go along with it. All depends on which conclusions you want and do not want to make. But all reports, comments and Harry's own admission point to Levy as the mastermind behind this deal.

True, but then Harry's also said that VDV was a player he seriously looked at during the summer but the price was to high at that time.

If your talking about Levy being the mastermind behind the VDV deal then technically you are correct, as Levy is the mastermind behind all our signinings under Harry. Harry has often said he gives Levy a list of players he wants, then Levy tries to sign those players.

Like alamo correctly pointed out, Harry has gone out of his way to say that the signing process is a team effort.

 

[Adam456]

Sloth is it supposed to say +8 against Gallas ?

 

[SpurSince57]

And for some, the phrase 'Levy signing' means that Levy scouted the player and signed him with no reference to the manager whatsoever, a notion that borders on the cretinous. I've seen it claimed in all seriousness that the Kyles were 'Levy signings' and that Harry knew nothing about them.

For Harry to say that Levy's backed his judgement is no more than fact.

 

[brett.spurs]

Kyles were "Levy signings" :shrug:

For me, Harry targets players that will help the team now, I mean, he's not going to be here in 5 years time so why would he sign a couple of teenage fullbacks from the Championship? Levy gets the player Harry wants and that he feels are right for the club, whilst also signing younger prospects recommended to him by our scouts, which imo have very little to do with Harry. These are seperate from Harry's dealings, they don't effect what he has to spend etc.

 

[sloth]

Sloth is it supposed to say +8 against Gallas ?

I did put that. Possibly a bit high?

And for some, the phrase 'Levy signing' means that Levy scouted the player and signed him with no reference to the manager whatsoever, a notion that borders on the cretinous. I've seen it claimed in all seriousness that the Kyles were 'Levy signings' and that Harry knew nothing about them.

For Harry to say that Levy's backed his judgement is no more than fact.

Are you happy with the kind of distinction i made in the OP? I know it's a little bit artificial because as Spurs Bear pointed out the decisions are really joint ones with Harry having the final say.

Kyles were "Levy signings" :shrug:

For me, Harry targets players that will help the team now, I mean, he's not going to be here in 5 years time so why would he sign a couple of teenage fullbacks from the Championship? Levy gets the player Harry wants and that he feels are right for the club, whilst also signing younger prospects recommended to him by our scouts, which imo have very little to do with Harry. These are seperate from Harry's dealings, they don't effect what he has to spend etc.

I'm not sure how this part worked prior to Broomfield's appointment (wasn't he Harry's man?), I just assumed they were Harry's picks. Is there any evidence that they weren't?

 

[brett.spurs]

Probably not, just my opinion on the matter.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

It seems that despite removing the DOF, we are still having a similar debate.

I believe, the fact is, that all decisions would be made on a pretty collective basis with the individual input varying with each type of signing whether we had the DOF/Chairman/Coach formula or as we have seen now the sometimes Chairman/Manager signings and sometime (eg Sandro) Chairman/Head Scout/Manager signings.

It's hard to give a a manager credit for signing a player like VDV - after all, 99.9% of managers in our position would have said yes please Mr Chairman.

It's signings like Gallas that impress me in terms of Redknapp. Any **** would say "yes" to VDV but taking the ex-arse captain Gallas was braver but demonstrated that he knew exactly what we needed and was prepared to stake some of his hard earned popularity to get it.

You have to give Levy a lot of credit for pulling the VDV deal off at the 11th hour. But you also have to give the manager credit for identifying the type of player the team needs and getting the chairman to understand this. We are lucky in that our chairman has invariably backed the judgement of his management/DOF team.

Personally, whilst never being a big fan of Redknapp either, I have always maintained that the one area of his management I have always admired is his ability to team build. It always irked me that he was signing players like benayoun and Foe when we were signing Leonardson's and Doherty's.

I agree with Sloth, that Redknapp is a massive self publicist and his statement definitely was a case of sideways complimenting Levy while making sure the real message was "look where I've got us".

If you look at the team today only VDV would be a cast iron guaranteed starter (Palacios, Gallas & Crouch would for me as well but not necessarily Redknapp himself) of any signing made under Redknapp tenure and he wasn't pursued by Redknapp in the same way you get the impression Joe Cole was.
I'm certain VDV wouldn't be here if we'd signed Joe Cole. But I don't blame Redknapp for that.

I think Redknapp is a good team builder, I think Levy is an excellent chairman, but I also think that we are where we are now thanks to a gradual process that included Arnesen, Comoli, Ramos & Jol.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Probably not, just my opinion on the matter.

That's almost as good as fact isn't it b_s? :lol:

 

[brett.spurs]

:shhh:

Spoiler

[yt]XRwmGxR698Y&autoplay=1[/yt]

 

[Spurs_Bear]

:shhh:

Spoiler

[yt]XRwmGxR698Y&autoplay=1[/yt]

Is that what happens when you type in "Pav's best bits" to Youtube?

 

[alamo]

It seems that despite removing the DOF, we are still having a similar debate.

I believe, the fact is, that all decisions would be made on a pretty collective basis with the individual input varying with each type of signing whether we had the DOF/Chairman/Coach formula or as we have seen now the sometimes Chairman/Manager signings and sometime (eg Sandro) Chairman/Head Scout/Manager signings.

It's hard to give a a manager credit for signing a player like VDV - after all, 99.9% of managers in our position would have said yes please Mr Chairman.

It's signings like Gallas that impress me in terms of Redknapp. Any **** would say "yes" to VDV but taking the ex-arse captain Gallas was braver but demonstrated that he knew exactly what we needed and was prepared to stake some of his hard earned popularity to get it.

You have to give Levy a lot of credit for pulling the VDV deal off at the 11th hour. But you also have to give the manager credit for identifying the type of player the team needs and getting the chairman to understand this. We are lucky in that our chairman has invariably backed the judgement of his management/DOF team.

Personally, whilst never being a big fan of Redknapp either, I have always maintained that the one area of his management I have always admired is his ability to team build. It always irked me that he was signing players like benayoun and Foe when we were signing Leonardson's and Doherty's.

I agree with Sloth, that Redknapp is a massive self publicist and his statement definitely was a case of sideways complimenting Levy while making sure the real message was "look where I've got us".

If you look at the team today only VDV would be a cast iron guaranteed starter (Palacios, Gallas & Crouch would for me as well but not necessarily Redknapp himself) of any signing made under Redknapp tenure and he wasn't pursued by Redknapp in the same way you get the impression Joe Cole was.
I'm certain VDV wouldn't be here if we'd signed Joe Cole. But I don't blame Redknapp for that.

I think Redknapp is a good team builder, I think Levy is an excellent chairman, but I also think that we are where we are now thanks to a gradual process that included Arnesen, Comoli, Ramos & Jol.

Excellent excellent post.

 

[sloth]

It seems that despite removing the DOF, we are still having a similar debate.

I believe, the fact is, that all decisions would be made on a pretty collective basis with the individual input varying with each type of signing whether we had the DOF/Chairman/Coach formula or as we have seen now the sometimes Chairman/Manager signings and sometime (eg Sandro) Chairman/Head Scout/Manager signings.

It's hard to give a a manager credit for signing a player like VDV - after all, 99.9% of managers in our position would have said yes please Mr Chairman.

It's signings like Gallas that impress me in terms of Redknapp. Any **** would say "yes" to VDV but taking the ex-arse captain Gallas was braver but demonstrated that he knew exactly what we needed and was prepared to stake some of his hard earned popularity to get it.

You have to give Levy a lot of credit for pulling the VDV deal off at the 11th hour. But you also have to give the manager credit for identifying the type of player the team needs and getting the chairman to understand this. We are lucky in that our chairman has invariably backed the judgement of his management/DOF team.

Personally, whilst never being a big fan of Redknapp either, I have always maintained that the one area of his management I have always admired is his ability to team build. It always irked me that he was signing players like benayoun and Foe when we were signing Leonardson's and Doherty's.

I agree with Sloth, that Redknapp is a massive self publicist and his statement definitely was a case of sideways complimenting Levy while making sure the real message was "look where I've got us".

If you look at the team today only VDV would be a cast iron guaranteed starter (Palacios, Gallas & Crouch would for me as well but not necessarily Redknapp himself) of any signing made under Redknapp tenure and he wasn't pursued by Redknapp in the same way you get the impression Joe Cole was.
I'm certain VDV wouldn't be here if we'd signed Joe Cole. But I don't blame Redknapp for that.

I think Redknapp is a good team builder, I think Levy is an excellent chairman, but I also think that we are where we are now thanks to a gradual process that included Arnesen, Comoli, Ramos & Jol.

Really good post and I agree with all of it.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

Hmm, if my memory serves, Naughton wasn't his choice either, he just came as part of the Walker deal, didn't he? :think:

It was more the other way around. Naughton is older and was a more established talent at the time. The way the deal was put together, we wanted both of them, but could only persuade Sheffield Utd to play ball if we agreed to loan one of them back for a season. The one chosen to be loaned back was Walker, because he was less developed.

It's strange, i read the same words and thought the opposite in that Harry was praising levy's contribution in backing him in the transfer market.

Imo praise would be "Daniel's doing a great job."

Self-serving praise is "Daniel's done a great job in backing my decisions."

The first says Levy should get the credit for the great job he's doing.

The second says I'm doing a great job and Levy should get the praise for backing me.

My impression was that it was (a) a genuine attempt to include Levy in the credit and also (b) a slightly tart message to fans and people close to the club who reckon tht Harry isn't fully in charge of what players we buy. I think his motivations were (c) to show that he and Levy have a good working relationship and (d) to make it quite clear that he's the man in control of the footballing direction of the squad.

It's signings like Gallas that impress me in terms of Redknapp. Any **** would say "yes" to VDV but taking the ex-arse captain Gallas was braver but demonstrated that he knew exactly what we needed and was prepared to stake some of his hard earned popularity to get it.

You have to give Levy a lot of credit for pulling the VDV deal off at the 11th hour. But you also have to give the manager credit for identifying the type of player the team needs and getting the chairman to understand this. We are lucky in that our chairman has invariably backed the judgement of his management/DOF team.

...I think Redknapp is a good team builder, I think Levy is an excellent chairman, but I also think that we are where we are now thanks to a gradual process that included Arnesen, Comoli, Ramos & Jol.

As others have said, it's a very good, well reasoned post. I especially agree with the bits I have quoted.

It's so easy to be distracted by the major hiccups on our route from 2003 to here and to think of the past seven years as having veered wildly from success to failure, but it's not really so. It has been a continuous process with a consistent strategy, ever since Levy waited for 6 months before appointing Arnesen to revolutionise the club by renovating the squad and introducing youth on a large scale.

The absence of virtually any of Arnesen's players from the current squad is actually a credit to this approach, because it means that, as we improved, we were able to attract progressively more exciting players. I'm pretty sure that this was the intention from the start: to buy good young players who would improve, so the club could then become a credible destination for even better players.

 

[sloth]

My impression was that it was (a) a genuine attempt to include Levy in the credit and also (b) a slightly tart message to fans and people close to the club who reckon tht Harry isn't fully in charge of what players we buy. I think his motivations were (c) to show that he and Levy have a good working relationship and (d) to make it quite clear that he's the man in control of the footballing direction of the squad.

You're not the first person in this thread to say they had a compltely different impression to me and given I'm not Harry's biggest fan (when it comes to his public persona anyway), I guess I have to hold my hands up and say it looks like I'm the one who's misinterpreted this one. Especially as your's seems an extremely reasonable interpretation of his comments.

That said, I completely reserve the future right to give out about Harry's shameless self-promotion in the media!!! :razz:

 

[guiltyparty]

It seems that despite removing the DOF, we are still having a similar debate.

I believe, the fact is, that all decisions would be made on a pretty collective basis with the individual input varying with each type of signing whether we had the DOF/Chairman/Coach formula or as we have seen now the sometimes Chairman/Manager signings and sometime (eg Sandro) Chairman/Head Scout/Manager signings.

It's hard to give a a manager credit for signing a player like VDV - after all, 99.9% of managers in our position would have said yes please Mr Chairman.

It's signings like Gallas that impress me in terms of Redknapp. Any **** would say "yes" to VDV but taking the ex-arse captain Gallas was braver but demonstrated that he knew exactly what we needed and was prepared to stake some of his hard earned popularity to get it.

You have to give Levy a lot of credit for pulling the VDV deal off at the 11th hour. But you also have to give the manager credit for identifying the type of player the team needs and getting the chairman to understand this. We are lucky in that our chairman has invariably backed the judgement of his management/DOF team.

Personally, whilst never being a big fan of Redknapp either, I have always maintained that the one area of his management I have always admired is his ability to team build. It always irked me that he was signing players like benayoun and Foe when we were signing Leonardson's and Doherty's.

I agree with Sloth, that Redknapp is a massive self publicist and his statement definitely was a case of sideways complimenting Levy while making sure the real message was "look where I've got us".

If you look at the team today only VDV would be a cast iron guaranteed starter (Palacios, Gallas & Crouch would for me as well but not necessarily Redknapp himself) of any signing made under Redknapp tenure and he wasn't pursued by Redknapp in the same way you get the impression Joe Cole was.
I'm certain VDV wouldn't be here if we'd signed Joe Cole. But I don't blame Redknapp for that.

I think Redknapp is a good team builder, I think Levy is an excellent chairman, but I also think that we are where we are now thanks to a gradual process that included Arnesen, Comoli, Ramos & Jol.

Great post. Can't rep without spreading it around a bit first tho

 

[THFC6061]

Well I was taught that it's fine to make a mistake, but you should only make new mistakes.

Spurs, over the years, have made every mistake in the book, but the key here is that we've learned from them and not made the same mistake again.

The upshot of all this is now the happy position we find ourselves in.

Sure, Harry like any other manager in football, will always be after more cash to spend on his squad.

And Levy, like any good Chairman, will give it to him, providing it's a sound business decision and we stand a sporting chance of getting our investment back.

So kudos all round, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[RobinLeonard]

In the F365 version of this article there were some quotes attached which shows that Harry credits the chairman for the players brought in before Redknapp too.

"We've got a lot of players here who could play for any club," he added.
"There are an awful lot of them who could. You've seen their performances. That includes the left-back (Benoit Assou-Ekotto) who you don't hear much about but has everything to be as good a left-back as there is around.
"He's a fantastic player, Benoit. When he's on it he's an unbelievable talent."