►►►►►► Match Ratings VS Blackburn Rovers ◄◄◄◄◄◄

[steve]

Just to clarify, I agree with SS18, I was more referring to his intelligence than his technique, where I think Lennon's OK. Walker I think is lacking in both.

So you agree with me then?

 

[jonathanhotspur]

I'm saying he has the technical ability. But he doesn't possess (well he does but he hasn't realised it yet) the mentality which means he can deliver it on a regular basis which makes him as I think we've all agreed 'inconsistent'. I think he lacks confidence in himself and that is psychological hence a 'mental/emotional' issue rather than a physical one. I used Torres as a starker example because he went from being world class to pony in a relatively short space of time all due to confidence. Lennon on very rare occasions puts in world class performances. Why doesn't he do it more often? Confidence. And that is a mental/emotional issue...

So you think he has all the ingredients except for confidence whereas I think he has limited technical ability and poor football intelligence?

I suppose what I'm trying to get to the bottom here (as much as anything) is our personal definition (and that includes BC and SS18) of a number of different tags/labels.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

The other question I have is-are there specific game conditions required for Lennon to produce "world class performances"?

 

[StartingPrice]

The other question I have is-are there specific game conditions required for Lennon to produce "world class performances"?

He likes ice...it aids his penguin run

 

[ShelfSide18]

The other question I have is-are there specific game conditions required for Lennon to produce "world class performances"?

Mark Hughes playing 74 year old pensioner Silvinho at left back to handle him, backed up by the ever diligent Robinho to get back and help out defend.

 

[Marty]

Mark Hughes playing 74 year old pensioner Silvinho at left back to handle him, backed up by the ever diligent Robinho to get back and help out defend.

One of my favourite visits to WHL, along with the Arsenal 5-1. What on earth Sparky was thinking when he set that team up I will never know, but I forever thank him for doing so!

 

[steve]

So you think he has all the ingredients except for confidence whereas I think he has limited technical ability and poor football intelligence?

I suppose what I'm trying to get to the bottom here (as much as anything) is our personal definition (and that includes BC and SS18) of a number of different tags/labels.

He's not got the intelligence of a Silva but he's as intelligent as Bale but nowhere near as confident generally. I don't have an issue with his technique, he lacks composure at crucial moments and I notice when he does play for England he REALLY looks on edge and nervous. If he was mentally stronger he'd handle pressure better and produce better footy when required and more consistently. Is he fluking the stuff in those videos? Or the performance at Man City last season? At City he was technically excellent, and very intelligent in his movement and delivery, by far our best player. Even BC agreed which is saying summink. To me it can only be a mental/emotional issue...otherwise he wouldn't be capable of doing it in the first place...

 

[steve]

The other question I have is-are there specific game conditions required for Lennon to produce "world class performances"?

fuck knows - time and space? Rooneys world class but didn't show it Monday because he weren't allowed to mostly...

 

[ShelfSide18]

He's not got the intelligence of a Silva but he's as intelligent as Bale but nowhere near as confident generally. I don't have an issue with his technique, he lacks composure at crucial moments and I notice when he does play for England he REALLY looks on edge and nervous. If he was mentally stronger he'd handle pressure better and produce better footy when required and more consistently. Is he fluking the stuff in those videos? Or the performance at Man City last season? At City he was technically excellent, and very intelligent in his movement and delivery, by far our best player. Even BC agreed which is saying summink. To me it can only be a mental/emotional issue...otherwise he wouldn't be capable of doing it in the first place...

I agree with this but what makes him turn up with those matchwinning/important goals on a basis that is too regular in my mind to be one off flukes?

I'm talking the 4-4 equaliser, Liverpool last minute, Chelsea goal, Milan away, in his first season he turned up with a huge goal late on at Birmingham, late West Ham winner away - there are more. Someone like Defoe can't boast of such success in big moments.

 

[mendesstormer]

This is coming very late in the discussion, I know, but ... I watched the last 25 minutes of the match live and thought, oh good, Rose is having a decent game, then came on here to find everyone slagging him. Went back last night and watched the first half, keeping a close eye on what he was doing.
What are you lot on about? He played absolutely fine, possibly one of the better performers in a good all-round performance. There was one (yes ONE) really poor cross in the first half. Does BAE ever do that? He repeatedly got on the ball and usually found his man with (admittedly) straightforward passes - nothing wrong with that. He even worked an excellent one-two with Modric which almost put him clean through on goal. OK, none of his final balls into the box were brilliant. Could we ever say that about BAE, I wonder? (yes, obviously) But the majority were OK, and some could have been made better by better movement of players in the box (sound familiar?)
I can only assume that in the 15 minutes of the match I haven't seen, he pulled his shorts down and took an almighty shit in the centre circle on a giant poster of Bill Nicholson.

 

[ShelfSide18]

As for Rose, he is one of those players that look like they never exactly have full command of the ball at their feet, but by and large I think he was fine as cover the other day, like he should be tonight. There were no defensive blunders I remember unlike Walker who made a few (which is saying something as Blackburn didn't make it on to the M6 let alone WHL). As back up, I think he's ok.

 

[steve]

I agree with this but what makes him turn up with those matchwinning/important goals on a basis that is too regular in my mind to be one off flukes?

I'm talking the 4-4 equaliser, Liverpool last minute, Chelsea goal, Milan away, in his first season he turned up with a huge goal late on at Birmingham, late West Ham winner away - there are more. Someone like Defoe can't boast of such success in big moments.

Agreed. I'm meeting them in the middle Shelfy. I can see why people cop the hump with him but i don't agree he's a back, sideways and pace player (or whatever it was JH said). I think that's just not true...

 

[mendesstormer]

As for Rose, he is one of those players that look like they never exactly have full command of the ball at their feet, but by and large I think he was fine as cover the other day, like he should be tonight. There were no defensive blunders I remember unlike Walker who made a few (which is saying something as Blackburn didn't make it on to the M6 let alone WHL). As back up, I think he's ok.

I'd agree with that, pretty much. He doesn't look like he'll ever be outstanding, but could be a very good back-up if he continues progressing. And with more game time, who knows? (so he didn't defile Bill Nick's image then?)

 

[jonathanhotspur]

I agree with this but what makes him turn up with those matchwinning/important goals on a basis that is too regular in my mind to be one off flukes?

I'm talking the 4-4 equaliser, Liverpool last minute, Chelsea goal, Milan away, in his first season he turned up with a huge goal late on at Birmingham, late West Ham winner away - there are more. Someone like Defoe can't boast of such success in big moments.

The game being stretched/us being camped on our 18 yard line, ShelfSide18?

 

[ShelfSide18]

The game being stretched/us being camped on our 18 yard line, ShelfSide18?

Yeah course, but keeping his head and sticking it away is more the point here. Defoe loves/craves it stretched, but only this season is he beginning to get the 'can't score away from home/big games' monkey off his back.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

So you think he has all the ingredients except for confidence whereas I think he has limited technical ability and poor football intelligence?

I suppose what I'm trying to get to the bottom here (as much as anything) is our personal definition (and that includes BC and SS18) of a number of different tags/labels.

In terms of technical ability I think Lennon is ok, his close control is pretty good, he can move quickly with the ball, and can use both feet, although not great with his left. Personally I think it's just an intelligence thing, the ability to think and execute under pressure, or to get his head up and coordinate what he sees with with what he executes. And his decision making process is impaired by this lack of intelligence, many times it's not just the final ball, it's sometimes what he does on the ball, even initially.

With lennon, it's not that he's bad in comparison to wingers in general, and on a good day he can be very good, it's just that those good days don't happen any where near enough and we also have Bale and accommodating two, inconsistent, flighty, erratic, not terribly diligent team players in a 4 man midfield is almost impossible in tough games and away from home.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

He's not got the intelligence of a Silva but he's as intelligent as Bale but nowhere near as confident generally. I don't have an issue with his technique, he lacks composure at crucial moments and I notice when he does play for England he REALLY looks on edge and nervous. If he was mentally stronger he'd handle pressure better and produce better footy when required and more consistently. Is he fluking the stuff in those videos? Or the performance at Man City last season? At City he was technically excellent, and very intelligent in his movement and delivery, by far our best player. Even BC agreed which is saying summink. To me it can only be a mental/emotional issue...otherwise he wouldn't be capable of doing it in the first place...

As intelligent as Bale? I'm staggered to hear you say that, steve. I've seen Bale doing things this season that I never thought he'd be capable of-I think he has far more strings in his bow and I don't put that down to confidence. [This discussion suffers a little bit when we don't have the video clips to hand]. I saw Bale play a couple of angled passes in behind Stoke's backline a couple of months back that were exceptional-both in their vision and execution. And the difference was that I don't recall the play being stretched during those two passages of play.

Why doesn't Lennon take free kicks or corners?

 

[StartingPrice]

As intelligent as Bale? I'm staggered to hear you say that, steve. I've seen Bale doing things this season that I never thought he'd be capable of-I think he has far more strings in his bow and I don't put that down to confidence. [This discussion suffers a little bit when we don't have the video clips to hand]. I saw Bale play a couple of angled passes in behind Stoke's backline a couple of months back that were exceptional-both in their vision and execution. And the difference was that I don't recall the play being stretched during those two passages of play.

Why doesn't Lennon take free kicks or corners?

Could you, perhaps, mean he has more than one string to his bow?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

To be honest, there isn't much difference between Rose & Walker. Both are a bit raw, a little bit lacking in composure and technique. Walker's obviously had two years experience now that Rose hasn't and that shows a bit, but both put in very similar performances on Sunday. Both got up and down, both a quick but both lack composure and heads up intelligence when the arrive in the danger zone.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

I agree with this but what makes him turn up with those matchwinning/important goals on a basis that is too regular in my mind to be one off flukes?

I'm talking the 4-4 equaliser, Liverpool last minute, Chelsea goal, Milan away, in his first season he turned up with a huge goal late on at Birmingham, late West Ham winner away - there are more. Someone like Defoe can't boast of such success in big moments.

What are we saying here? That Defoe has even less composure than Lennon?!

Listen, chaps-I can't stand Defoe. There's no point in beating around the bush here. I think he's the least intelligent player we have (out of those who play frequently).