►►►►►► Match Ratings VS Blackburn Rovers ◄◄◄◄◄◄

[jonathanhotspur]

To be honest, there isn't much difference between Rose & Walker. Both are a bit raw, a little bit lacking in composure and technique. Walker's obviously had two years experience now that Rose hasn't and that shows a bit, but both put in very similar performances on Sunday. Both got up and down, both a quick but both lack composure and heads up intelligence when the arrive in the danger zone.

Not much difference between Rose and Walker? I need to lie down now!

 

[sloth]

Whilst we're on the subject of Lennon it's interesting that Gary Neville who I've personally found to be an excellent analyst on Sky (light years ahead of anybody else they've had) say how much we've missed Lennon when he's been out of the side, which to my mind we clearly have!

I think Lennon can play in a 4-3-3 / 4-2-3-1, I wouldn't want to regularly play a 2 man CM (though there's a time and place for it) in either a 4-4-2, or a 4-4-1-1 where VdV drops deeper, for all the reasons exhaustively argued over. Agree with you re Neville btw.

Also saying, and I think he knows a thing or two about playing RB that Walker is already the best English RB and that he has amazing potential for his age. I would also say that he echoes what I think the more insightful posters have said on here that his main learning area needs to be his positional play and that can only come with experience. not a mention of his shit technique anywhere, his lack of brain or decision making in the final third. Nope none of that just really positive thoughts with constructive analysis about where his game can and with experience will improve.

Agree with you and Neville on this.

He also spoke about how much better we look as a side when we move the ball much quicker, totally contrary to how so many people on here say we should be playing. I find Neville's point here so obvious, all season when we have moved the ball quickly and with purpose we have looked very very good, when we play slowly I personally think we look pedestrian, obvious and have a total lack of end product, which is hardly surprising when you allow the opposition to set and get their defensive shape.

Everyone agrees the ball should be moved quickly. Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Barcelona all move the ball quickly, there's nothing about 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 which means the ball has to be moved slowly and no one's argued that it should be. Or have they?

And also having read the same old comments on here month after month did anybody else find it interesting when Neville said how much better Spurs look as a side when we play with Lennon and Bale rather than having Parker, Sandro and Modric in the same side all operating in the middle and crowding out their own space and taking our width away?

We do need to be trained how to play, that's for certain!

I don't always agree with pundits and to be honest I usually don't, however I think gary neville has been a breath of fresh air this season and I think he's got us totally worked out. Let's face it when he commented about Spurs before the Utd game and said Utd always expect to beat us because they knew we were soft mentally, he wasn't wrong was he?

I usually only agree with pundits when they agree with me! What about you?

 

[steve]

As intelligent as Bale? I'm staggered to hear you say that, steve. I've seen Bale doing things this season that I never thought he'd be capable of-I think he has far more strings in his bow and I don't put that down to confidence. [This discussion suffers a little bit when we don't have the video clips to hand]. I saw Bale play a couple of angled passes in behind Stoke's backline a couple of months back that were exceptional-both in their vision and execution. And the difference was that I don't recall the play being stretched during those two passages of play.

Why doesn't Lennon take free kicks or corners?

Dunno. I think Bale is more confident and his greatest strength amongst many is his ability to retain his EXCEPTIONAL technique at full pelt and hitting the byline whilst beating a player. Bale's technique is exceptional I think better than Lennon's (and most players), that doesn't mean Lennon's is pony, just not as good. Bale isn't as intelligent as Silva either and makes plenty of wrong decisions. Lennon's ball to Walker on Sunday was as good an example. This conversation has way too many black and white examples going on for my liking and the shades of grey are being passed over which is where the truth lies I think. And confidence is such a crucial factor I dont see how it can be overlooked as much as it is...

 

[ShelfSide18]

What are we saying here? That Defoe has even less composure than Lennon?!

Listen, chaps-I can't stand Defoe. There's no point in beating around the bush here. I think he's the least intelligent player we have (out of those who play frequently).

I have no idea what it is but Defoe is nowhere near as productive when it matters than Lennon, that I know, not sure why because it sort of contradicts Lennon's general trends.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

Could you, perhaps, mean he has more than one string to his bow?

I don't know what I mean. Have I said something naughty?

 

[jonathanhotspur]

Dunno. I think Bale is more confident and his greatest strength amongst many is his ability to retain his EXCEPTIONAL technique at full pelt and hitting the byline whilst beating a player. Bale's technique is exceptional I think better than Lennon's (and most players), that doesn't mean Lennon's is pony, just not as good. Bale isn't as intelligent as Silva either and makes plenty of wrong decisions. Lennon's ball to Walker on Sunday was as good an example. This conversation has way too many black and white examples going on for my liking and the shades of grey are being passed over which is where the truth lies I think. And confidence is such a crucial factor I dont see how it can be overlooked as much as it is...

Do you think that lack of confidence stems from having a limited skills-set/difficulty in imposing himself on a game?

 

[jonathanhotspur]

I have no idea what it is but Defoe is nowhere near as productive when it matters than Lennon, that I know, not sure why because it sort of contradicts Lennon's general trends.

How would you describe Defoe's composure inside the box?

 

[ShelfSide18]

How would you describe Defoe's composure inside the box?

Not great, it really depends though. Last minute away at Old Trafford unlikely, 4-0 up home to Wigan - more likeky.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

Not great, it really depends though. Last minute away at Old Trafford unlikely, 4-0 up home to Wigan - more likeky.

Is it not generally accepted that he's at his best blasting it from 20 yards? I think his movement in the box is wretched, to be honest-which doesn't help. And I think that the chances that fall to him inside the box are liable to be blasted straight at the keeper. Hopefully sloth will oblige with some stats...

 

[ShelfSide18]

Is it not generally accepted that he's at his best blasting it from 20 yards? I think his movement in the box is wretched, to be honest-which doesn't help. And I think that the chances that fall to him inside the box are liable to be blasted straight at the keeper. Hopefully sloth will oblige with some stats...

Never rated his movement at all.

 

[steve]

Do you think that lack of confidence stems from having a limited skills-set/difficulty in imposing himself on a game?

No. He wouldn't have made it in the Premier League. Lack of confidence is a mental/emotional issue....lol we're right back where we started. He needs to address a few things psychologically (acceptance towards self, success & failure) and sit down and meditate regularly to break the bad mental/emotional habits he's formed.

Rose also lacks confidence but he's never been given a run really - he was massively nervous on Sunday, I dunno how anyone failed to spot it or make allowances for it...

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Did BC really say there isn't much difference between Rose and Walker?

As in, seriously?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Did BC really say there isn't much difference between Rose and Walker?

As in, seriously?

Apart from having two more years experience of regular first team football and that showing in Walker's general confidence, what major differences would you say there are between Walker and Rose when they play as fb's on their respective sides then ?

 

[Legend10]

I think Lennon can play in a 4-3-3 / 4-2-3-1, I wouldn't want to regularly play a 2 man CM (though there's a time and place for it) in either a 4-4-2, or a 4-4-1-1 where VdV drops deeper, for all the reasons exhaustively argued over. Agree with you re Neville btw.



Agree with you and Neville on this.



Everyone agrees the ball should be moved quickly. Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Barcelona all move the ball quickly, there's nothing about 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 which means the ball has to be moved slowly and no one's argued that it should be. Or have they?



We do need to be trained how to play, that's for certain!



I usually only agree with pundits when they agree with me! What about you?

Well I keep hearing how exceptional we were at Sunderland where we moved the ball so slowly it was untrue! For me Sunderland was a terrible offensive performance because of the pace we moved the ball at, I'm not sure how a performance where we lacked a single effort on target and frankly anything else beside can be so lauded simply because we had a lot of possesion, which the other team chose to concede to us anyway. Any ideas?

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Apart from having two more years experience of regular first team football and that showing in Walker's general confidence, what major differences would you say there are between Walker and Rose when they play as fb's on their respective sides then ?

One is a good right back, who will get even better.

The other, is a failed left midfielder, a poor footballer who doesn't even have the 'fast legs, shit technique' that Walker apparently has, living off the back of a wonder goal for which we all love him.

Or words to that affect.

 

[Mr Pink]

Well I keep hearing how exceptional we were at Sunderland where we moved the ball so slowly it was untrue! For me Sunderland was a terrible offensive performance because of the pace we moved the ball at, I'm not sure how a performance where we lacked a single effort on target and frankly anything else beside can be so lauded simply because we had a lot of possesion, which the other team chose to concede to us anyway. Any ideas?

Did we move the ball quickly enough against Bolton at home in the replay?

 

[Legend10]

Apart from having two more years experience of regular first team football and that showing in Walker's general confidence, what major differences would you say there are between Walker and Rose when they play as fb's on their respective sides then ?

Apart from the fact that Walker is quicker, physically stronger both in body strength and the tackle, better in the air, has demonstrated a real winners attitude, despite what you say is a very competent passer of the ball, hardly ever to never gets run and looks every inch a FB that is one of the best in the Premiership, or according to his fellow premiership pro's has been the best RB in the league this season, nothing.

 

[Legend10]

Did we move the ball quickly enough against Bolton at home in the replay?

We certainly did, I thought that was a very good performance, why do you ask?

 

[Mr Pink]

We certainly did, I thought that was a very good performance, why do you ask?

because it was the same set up to that of Sunderland away, from what I can make out you're implying that under a 4-3-3 etc we don't move the ball quick enough.

 

[sloth]

Well I keep hearing how exceptional we were at Sunderland where we moved the ball so slowly it was untrue! For me Sunderland was a terrible offensive performance because of the pace we moved the ball at, I'm not sure how a performance where we lacked a single effort on target and frankly anything else beside can be so lauded simply because we had a lot of possesion, which the other team chose to concede to us anyway. Any ideas?

I take your point, I think that performance against Sunderland was much better than the one against Norwich though. That cheap shot aside, and without starting the whole debate again, we controlled the game against Sunderland, but only in the areas they were happy for us to control it in. To the extent that control is better than no control then Sunderland was a good performance, but each of us can posit a million and one hypothetical alternatives in which 4-4-2 at one extreme leads us to losing that game 0-10, or causes us to win it 10-0.

I should say that I don't think we on the whole play the 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 brilliantly in the offensive sense. Frankly I don't think Harry thinks of it as an offensive formation, nor do I believe he's much cop as a coach in general, and I certainly don't think he drills the players in movement off the ball and how to get the most out of whichever way we chose to play.

This for me is the issue that comes before whichever formation we play. Get the coaching correct, have a manager with in the first place a coherent philosophy, and the second an effective method for getting his team to enact that philosophy and then worry about formations after that. However in the absence of that kind of coach - Harry's a curator not a coach - then make the best of your teams strengths, and that is clearly to primarily play 4-2-3-1/4-3-3, and with any luck if they play it often enough they'll work it out on their own!