►►►►►► Match Ratings VS Blackburn Rovers ◄◄◄◄◄◄

Discussion in 'Spurs Chat' started by OmarsComing, Apr 29, 2012.

MOTM?

  1. Friedel

    0.4%
  2. Walker

    7.7%
  3. Kaboul

    1.6%
  4. Gallas

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Rose

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Lennon

    2.0%
  7. Sandro

    83.1%
  8. Modric

    0.8%
  9. Bale

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Van Der Vaart

    2.8%
  11. Adebayor

    0.4%
  12. Dos Santos

    0.4%
  13. Livermore

    0.4%
  14. Defoe

    0.4%
  1. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    He is quicker and physically stronger, better in the air (although Rose competes well - he's shorter) he's no more tenacious though (or better in the tackle), have no idea what he's done that demonstrates a winners attitude ? He's demonstrated a willing attitude I would say. He is a competent passer if simplistic stuff is what you want but he still gives the ball away more than his fair share, often at very foolish times and under no pressure. There have been several times when he has been "done" when he shouldn't have been, not because of speed per se but because positionally he does weird things sometimes. I think it would be fair to say that Rose is actually, arguably the better at reading defensive situations, especially if you allow for the fact that he's played about 10 times and walkers now played about 50 games in the EPL.

    I just mean that basically they are both good up and downers, they're both tenacious, they're both varying degrees of quick, neither actually weigh in with much quality when they get to the final third. Walker's slightly quicker but I've seen Rose actually beat his man more often with a faint or shoulder drop than Walker does, whose main weapon is his yard high slowmo stopover or kick the ball past and race. Although to be fair, for the first time this season, Walker actually dropped a shoulder and went past someone Sunday. Then wasted the ball.
     
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  2. ShelfSide18

    ShelfSide18 Well-Known Member

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    I think our failing at Sunderland was down to the absolute lack of them showing any pretence of ambition to compete in the game, and maybe Redknapp didn't react to this circumstance quickly enough on the day. It was a sensible line up I think, but the way they played left us with an absolute monopoly on the ball in front of them with Sandro and Parker having the lions share of it - not great creative passers and I was a lil disappointed with Luka that day who is the man who gets us going. Think Redknapp may have added a creative player that day a bit quicker (not sure who we had on the bench?).

    Just the inevitable teething problems you're going to get when you are as feared as we are now, teams are surrendering us the ball rather than the space in behind a lot more of the time (see Newcastle 5-0 for when they did!), I'd rather have frustrating days like Sunderland because it shows where we are going as a team than free for all end to enders and nabbing the odd smash and grab. Until this season I've never seen us dominate possession so regularly, and I think that's a sign of how teams are approaching us and Redknapp needs to dive in headlong into this world rather than reverting to 'going open' which has seen us fluke wins and fluke losses, it's too much of a lottery. If he does that then we'll start finding the solutions to the commentators favourite quip, 'they've had all the possession but they haven't done anything with it', etc etc etc.

    Leg10 is right that we didn't move the ball about as quickly as we should have that day, it was laboured and we never threatened to drag their well drilled unit out of shape - but we still had complete control of the match, and I think had that come in the middle of a decent set of results then I think the consensus would have been we were a little off the boil but still a decent point.
     
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  3. al_pacino

    al_pacino woo

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    *note - have come to this thread late and haven't read it all.

    If that's Harrys opinion then I'd agree with him with the squad of players we have.

    When I see us line up 433 I think we'll be solid, keep hold of the ball and move it into the final third. What I don't see is a goal threat from the middle three. Modric gets into the positions but shoots like a small boy and the other two are definitely better at other aspects of the game.
     
  4. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    Absolutely this but I also think that the 4231/433 does suit the players we have better and does also compensate a little for that lack of coached ethos.

    I disagree that on the whole we don't play the 4231/433 offensively well, a couple of our best offensive performances have been whilst playing it/them (like Norwich, Bolton cup, Wigan first half, Swansea home), but again i think we play it well because it suits the players we have and their natural abilities.
     
  5. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    To a large degree though, sometimes you are dictated to by the oppositions tactics. We saw Real and Chelsea apply very similar tactics against Barca with success on both occasions. You would have thought Barca would be rehearsed enough in dealing with bus parking to over come it wouldn't you, but it can be an almost physical impossibility sometimes, you literally cannot get behind a team that sits two rows deep and compact in the own third when the work that hard at not allowing you to. You get the odd chink of light - like the VDV chances (Sunderland & QPR) and you have to take the slim pickings or end up admitting your offence couldn't break their defence.

    Personally I'd much rather watch a game like that than horrible timid, insipid or even open crap like Liverpool away or Nrowich home any day.
     
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  6. Mr Pink

    Mr Pink SC Supporter

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    I agree Shelfie, I was just merely pointing out that its not necessarily because of the system that the ball isn't moved quickly enough.
     
  7. Mr Pink

    Mr Pink SC Supporter

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    Anybody who has reservations over our attacking prowess with the 4-3-3, really does need to watch the Chelsea and Norwich away games again.

    I think of it long - term, which set up, generally speaking, is likely to yield more success in these types of games ie particularly tough away ones.

    There will always be a multiple of variables in any given football match that arn't within our direct control to influence.
     
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  8. ShelfSide18

    ShelfSide18 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, no disagreeing from me here - the point is that we will get better and better at finding ways through parked buses the more Redknapp trusts that system and gameplan, rather than running off home to mummy' 4-4-2 give it a right go etc' every time we find it hard to break down a team sitting in their own goalmouth. But yeah, much more preferable than the slugfests.
     
  9. ShelfSide18

    ShelfSide18 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah of course, I was just padding out why I thought we struggled to break Sunderland down but overall this is the path we should be taking.

    No team has ever won the title playing open end to end lotteries.
     
  10. sloth

    sloth Well-Known Member

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    Which I think is a commonly held (though getting less common) misconception, born of people thinking in terms of defensive and attacking players rather than in terms of winning the ball aggressively, and higher up the pitch being on the same continuum as 'offence', while defending passively and deeper being on the same continuum as 'defence'.
     
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  11. Mr Pink

    Mr Pink SC Supporter

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    (y)
     
  12. sloth

    sloth Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps not on the whole, but I certainly think we could play it a lot better with some proper coaching, particularly when teams park the bus. I don't think we're brilliant at getting the little rotations going which 4-2-3-1 is all about, imo, against Sunderland for example, you saw our players with 4-4-2 style off the ball movement when we were in possession (lots of angled runs off the ball for through ball's which were never going to come, and lateral passing), and not a lot of good close 4-2-3-1 type movement, with the result that the extra man in CM became redundant, and spent a lot of time standing about two foot away from the guy in possession. They really didn't look like they knew how to get the most out of the system at all in that game.

    Of course maybe sometimes it's simply not going to work, and you have to try something else, we saw Barcelona come unstuck against Chelsea in that regard, but if Barcelona had still had Ibrahimovic the the could have whipped a few crosses in from those wide areas ad maybe something would have come of it. The point is (which is one you, I and others make a lot so not quite sure why I'm making it to you :)), that no one's advocating simply sticking to one way no matter what, you need tactical flexibility, but as a base the 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 should be the start point.
     
  13. Legend10

    Legend10 Well-Known Member

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    I'm absolutely aware it was the same set up and we played well at home to Bolton!

    However I'm not so single minded and sighted to be unable to see that we have good and poor performances with all types of personnel and systems and that none are diabolical and that none are perfect. I also think that trying to convince everybody that one system over another is bullshit as it takes into no consideration the individual circumstances of the day, player availability, opposition, form etc etc.

    However for some they have to defend even the indefensible if it's the system and personnel they like and slate even the good if its the system and personnel that they don't!

    Offensively Sunderland was a dreadful performance that is a point emphasised by not a single effort of note on the opposition goal, not one! We moved the ball so slowly that day that it was one of the most boring matches I've evre seen! and to offer up barca v chavs as a comparisson of being exactly the same is somewhat stupid seeing as Barca scored twice, hit the post, hit the bar and had countless other opportunities which amazingly Messi in the main squandered!
     
  14. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    To offer that up was to assume someone would be able to make the relevant connection between a side who's tactics is sitting deep and solely intent on preventing players running in behind and trying to force the opposition to have possession in areas where they can manage, whilst carrying a threat on the break verses a team intent mainly going forwards, on breaking them down who struggled to do so, without assuming that I meant we are as good as Barca or they are as bad as Sunderland. It was a tactical comparison. It was a tactical comparison, I guess I could have hunted down an EPL game that finished 0-0 if I really tried hard, but I didn't think I'd have to.

    My bad.
     
  15. jonathanhotspur

    jonathanhotspur Loose Cannon

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    I think that without the pace he possesses, he might not have made it in the PL. Are you of the opinion that there's no such thing as a moderately talented/poor PL player?

    I think the kind of stuff you're talking about here is very New Age (or something). My opinion is that he has very limited football intelligence. I don't think he's able to think one or two steps ahead.

    I think the problem with some of the players we have is that they don't hate losing as much as they should.
     
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  16. jonathanhotspur

    jonathanhotspur Loose Cannon

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    Just for laughs, steve, what's your verdict on Walcott?
     
  17. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    Guilty.
     
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  18. Mr Pink

    Mr Pink SC Supporter

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    Who the hell are you talking to?

    Anyway I wasn't talking about one formation for all purposes, I said in particular tough away games....
     
  19. Legend10

    Legend10 Well-Known Member

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    It's a stupid comparrison as the games were totally different!
     
  20. Legend10

    Legend10 Well-Known Member

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    I'm talking to comments that have been made on the general discussion, so calm down.
     

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