►►►►►► Match Ratings VS Chelsea ◄◄◄◄◄◄

Discussion in 'Spurs Chat' started by OmarsComing, Apr 15, 2012.

MOTM

  1. Cudicini

    1.0%
  2. Walker

    3.0%
  3. King

    2.0%
  4. Gallas

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Assou-Ekotto

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Lennon

    11.9%
  7. Parker

    50.5%
  8. Modric

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Bale

    5.9%
  10. Van Der Vaart

    10.9%
  11. Adebayor

    9.9%
  12. Defoe

    1.0%
  13. Sandro

    4.0%
  1. jonathanhotspur

    jonathanhotspur Loose Cannon

    Messages:
    9,723
    Ratings Received:
    +7,547 / 290 / -106
    In the first picture, Drogba is offside. Can we all agree on that?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

    Messages:
    37,002
    Ratings Received:
    +45,401 / 2,086 / -622

    But Walker is looking along the line, surely he can see that Drogba has drifted offside, he doesn't need to cover his run, he just needs to let him drift offside - which he would have been by a yard and a half - and his run is meaningless, because we are holding a good line. Other team's do this to Defoe and Adenayor frequently (nearly ever attack in Defoe's case).

    What we don't know is whether we are taught to do this as a unit or not. With Redknapp and our coaches I take nothing for granted, but it's a pretty simple drill for most teams.

    They stuff about our pressing in midfield is all true and was shambolic on Sunday, but I personally think you are being very kind to Walker who often demonstrates a lack of intelligence in his defending. He often recovers situations because of his pace and tenacity and this masks the initial error, but even in that game sunday he made a couple of bad ones. First half he allowed himself to get wrong side and it was only Mata's poor control when clean through that got Walker off the hook. In his defence he also made a good last minute challenge in the six yard box that saved another situation, but it is what he should be doing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. sloth

    sloth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,990
    Ratings Received:
    +7,036 / 170 / -64
    Yes. Although it's pretty border-line.

    But it's irrelevant to the main point, which has nothing to do with a (imo) spurious, fine-tooth combed analysis of the anatomy of a goal (the application of which would apply equally to every goal we've conceded this year probably, if presented in three still-shots), but why players are getting pulled out of position.
     
  4. sloth

    sloth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,990
    Ratings Received:
    +7,036 / 170 / -64
    Sorry BC, I think this kind of thing's a bit of a waste of time tbh. People are making judgements in the light of three moments frozen in time and trying to be critical of split-second decisions in that light. Basically I think that you could apply the same analysis to every single goal any team concedes anywhere, and most of the time you'd be able to make a similar critique whether it be Barcelona, Utd or Real Madrid doing the conceding.

    More to the point, as I said to JH, I think its missing the point. A spurious side-show to the real event.
     
  5. jonathanhotspur

    jonathanhotspur Loose Cannon

    Messages:
    9,723
    Ratings Received:
    +7,547 / 290 / -106
    Borderline, my arse, sloth. I analyse all our goals in the same manner. I'm not laying all the blame at Walker's door-not at all. I am more annoyed with the lack of cohesion. Cohesion's the big buzzword round here these days and the lack of it is evident in those pictures. This is par for the course with us-this basic lack of organisation-the team shape is all wrong to begin with and that's the root cause here IMO and we come down like a house of cards. It's just not often that someone goes to the trouble of putting some pictures up and I don't have a clue how to.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. jonathanhotspur

    jonathanhotspur Loose Cannon

    Messages:
    9,723
    Ratings Received:
    +7,547 / 290 / -106
    And I'd like to add that I have watched this passage of play repeatedly on my dvr in addition to studying these three pictures.

    Drogba's got to be at least a yard offside in the first shot.
     
  7. sloth

    sloth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,990
    Ratings Received:
    +7,036 / 170 / -64
    Fair enough mate, as I say it's not something I think's important for the reasons previously stated, so I'll duck out at this point.
     
  8. jonathanhotspur

    jonathanhotspur Loose Cannon

    Messages:
    9,723
    Ratings Received:
    +7,547 / 290 / -106
    All this because you won't have a bad word said about Walker, sloth?
     
  9. Damian99

    Damian99 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,498
    Ratings Received:
    +4,664 / 211 / -72
    Wouldn't matter about Drogba with todays offside laws anyhow would it?
     
  10. sloth

    sloth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,990
    Ratings Received:
    +7,036 / 170 / -64
    Paint it that way if you like JH - who knows maybe there's even an element of truth in it? - from where I'm sitting though it seems that in my original post I was exonerating everyone from the criticism previously directed at them, but one or two of you particularly took exception to me exonerating Walker and chose to focus in on that, and I've been defending my first point in that light. I sort of think that if people had taken exception to me exonerating Modric or BAE then the last few posts might have been me defending them in the light of what I think's important (or not).

    Basically I think this kind of fine-tooth combed analysis is misleading/spurious in the first place, and distracting in the second, from what I think is the more interesting underlying reason for this goal and the over-all defeat in that game.

    But I doubt I'll convince you to see it the same way.
     
  11. Damian99

    Damian99 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,498
    Ratings Received:
    +4,664 / 211 / -72
    One thing is for sure, it's more than just Walkers fault.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. jonathanhotspur

    jonathanhotspur Loose Cannon

    Messages:
    9,723
    Ratings Received:
    +7,547 / 290 / -106
    Ultimately I blame the manager. No free ride for Walker, however.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. jonathanhotspur

    jonathanhotspur Loose Cannon

    Messages:
    9,723
    Ratings Received:
    +7,547 / 290 / -106
    Isn't that the essence of what I'm saying, Damian?
     
  14. Damian99

    Damian99 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,498
    Ratings Received:
    +4,664 / 211 / -72
    Must apologise Johno i haven't really read much of it. But if that's what you said then, yes i agree with you.
     
  15. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

    Messages:
    37,002
    Ratings Received:
    +45,401 / 2,086 / -622
    Walker playing Drogba on played Ramires on too.

    Agreed.
     
  16. stemark44

    stemark44 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,598
    Ratings Received:
    +1,988 / 348 / -140
    I would agree totally with this.

    I thought we looked really amateurish against Chelsea and in a number of other games recently.
     
  17. Damian99

    Damian99 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,498
    Ratings Received:
    +4,664 / 211 / -72
    Yes i have already said Walker got himself into a terrible position. I also feel King gets drawn to the ball/player to early. Sadly one players bad decision at the wrong time, can lead to others making similar poor ones, or being forced into making one they don't want to make.

    I have know idea why BAE isn't further round nearer to King. I also feel we don't have many players who are clever enough to beable to read a situation before it's happened. I know no one can know for sure exactly whats going to unfold, but intelligent players can generally read it before it's happened and react accordingly.
     
  18. jonathanhotspur

    jonathanhotspur Loose Cannon

    Messages:
    9,723
    Ratings Received:
    +7,547 / 290 / -106
    I agree. We all sit here and say that this Chelsea side is vulnerable and over the hill but the difference between us was that they were getting the fundamental stuff right on Sunday-defensive shape, pressing and so on. I lost count of how many times I could clearly see their two lines when we had the ball and not a single white shirt in between them. And then we get the media saying it's soft old Spurs and a lot of vague shite from players and management about character. I say balls to that. I say it's a basic lack of organisation. But there are people on here who will explain it more eloquently than I do.

    I thought this was a great article, by the way-http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/04/16/chelseas-change-in-defensive-system-under-roberto-di-matteo/
     
  19. jonathanhotspur

    jonathanhotspur Loose Cannon

    Messages:
    9,723
    Ratings Received:
    +7,547 / 290 / -106
    I think someone is always going to get sucked out when the midfield disappears into thin air, Damian. It also looks like Gallas is ballwatching. Cudicini didn't make himself big enough either. And I do not particularly rate BAE. I thought he made a number of awful mistakes on the day. We can always say that Walker has time on his side but BAE should really have his shit together by now.
     
  20. Damian99

    Damian99 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,498
    Ratings Received:
    +4,664 / 211 / -72
    True enough about having to step out from the Centre of Defence when your midfield has gone AWOL. I am no professional footballer or manager, but i just think Kings gone just a little bit to early on this occasion. Again it boils down to making the right decision at the right moment, it's a very very fine line.
     

Share This Page