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MOTM?


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    156

ShelfSide18

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
8,386
#61
Same shit, different day against Utd.

We played excellently for the most part, dominated the ball and dominated the space but 3 lapses cost us, and that is United for you. Put their group of players in blue shirts and call them Everton then we win that yesterday, it's so psychological.

When I saw the lineup without VDV and Bale I wasn't actually too disheartened. We had a solid centre of the park who would work hard and disrupt Carrick and Scholes, and after seeing Newcastle cause Utd huge problems with 2 quick powerful presences up front I looked forward to seeing Saha and Ade get at them. The only concerns I had were with 2 flat ranks off 4 that Rooney and Wellbeck would get space between the lines which they did on occasion and also how much joy they'd get down our left with Modric drifting infield, but I think Ferguson missed a trick by not playing Rafael instead of Jones when he knew Bale wasn't going to be around. Jones isn't great going forward so we weren't overloaded in that area.

So how the fuck did we lose this game, how the fuck did we not win this game?! Walker got done by a very small margin to be fair, it wasn't awful defending and sometimes the ball in is just very good. Once again though, is Friedel guilty of deferring responsibility to his defenders? The second goal Modric has gone to sleep which was very poor, but why wasn't Ekotto on Nani here? I'm not sure Walker is to blame here really, maybe he could have swung his left boot at it but that is nitpicking. The third goal was one of the few times we gave them a bit of space and didn't press the ball, Walker dropped off but he was mindful of the runner down the left and think Kaboul could have come out a bit quicker.

For 60 minutes we were excellent here, we did all the right things well and once again we got fucked by a ref with Ade's goal, and suffered Utd at their most clinical. I'm so gutted, I hate them with a passion.

Friedel 6 Picked the ball out his net 3 times and nothing else to do. Not sure why he tipped it over the bar for the corner and could have been more proactive in dealing with the resulting corner.
Walker 6 Not as poor as some have made out, but when you play Utd I guess that's the difference, those little fine lines.
Ekotto 7 Good game.
King 7 Good game.
Kaboul 7 Good game.
Lennon 8 Once again had joy against Evra, worked hard too. That's the Lennon I have a lot of time for.
Modric 7 Saw a lot less of the ball than he usually does due to him being shifted wide, but he put in a decent performance although went to sleep for the killer 2nd goal. I think in the circumstances it was a good move for him to be shifted to the left here, but it also confirmed my thoughts that Modric is best when he is central and unshackled i.e in a midfield 3. In the centre in a 2 he is in the zone he is best but he can get overrun, on the left whilst he has more freedom to weave his magic he sees a lot less of the ball.
Sandro 7 Still looked a little unfit and operating at about 75% but he still put in a really good shift.
Livermore 8 70 passes at 88% completion is a top return against most sides, a really composed display in the middle and even showed glimpses of a better passing range and with a bit of ingenuity. BC called him a poor mans Jenas, I just think he's essentially JJ mark 2. Top teams aren't just built on Bale/Modric/VDVs, they have decent but unspectacular players in and around the squad who can come in and perform specific remits, United have proved this point better than anyone themselves.
Saha 7 Got among them and caused them problems, good signing.
Adebayor 7 Same as Saha, unsettled United and unlucky to not get any rewards.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
44,695
#62
I wouldn't be disappointed if we lined up exactly the same against Everton, depending on the fitness of Bale and VDV though.

Personally I would go 4-3-3 away to Everton, so Modric can have more influence. On that showing Livermore deserves another start as well.
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
14,175
#63
I wouldn't be disappointed if we lined up exactly the same against Everton, depending on the fitness of Bale and VDV though.

Personally I would go 4-3-3 away to Everton, so Modric can have more influence. On that showing Livermore deserves another start as well.
Who are you dropping for Parker then in your 4-3-3 Pinky?
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,837
#66
Pretty much agree with this, although I think you're a bit generous with Walker and Adebayor, but maybe only a .25 of a mark. You get me?

I also think that while it was obvious you were going to point out that Modric didn't play in the middle and we performed well, his best influence on the game came when he moved more central in a sort of 352 with BAE pushing to left mid. Modric is our best player on the ball, what Scholes is to Man U (Scholes now, not when he was banging in 20 a season) and we need him to be involved and on the ball as much as possible. He doesn't get that playing on the left, nor would he at AMR.

Somewhat furious after last week, more just gutted after yesterday, to turn up and watch us boss the Champions and still come away losing 3-1 was heartbreaking. Makes you wonder if we will ever get the rub of the green against those ****s.

Just a word about the ref, even if there hadn't been the 'was it or wasn't it a handball', it was the most incompetent performance of a referee I have ever seen live, not fit enough to keep up with play, at least twice the ball struck him when he was badly positioned, and some of his decisions, both ways, were baffling.
Modric is superb on the ball, but not always superb off it, especially against the best sides. And removing him from the cm, gives him less responsibility and more freedom to apply his ability. Him looking good coming inside is one of the reasons I like him outside. I don't want him playing as a winger, hugging the touch line, I want him coming inside, giving their defenders difficult choices to make (does the fb come inside etc). He can find more space this way than coming down the centre, where, especially on tough days, he just ends up as a lightweight water carrier.

Same shit, different day against Utd.

We played excellently for the most part, dominated the ball and dominated the space but 3 lapses cost us, and that is United for you. Put their group of players in blue shirts and call them Everton then we win that yesterday, it's so psychological.

When I saw the lineup without VDV and Bale I wasn't actually too disheartened. We had a solid centre of the park who would work hard and disrupt Carrick and Scholes, and after seeing Newcastle cause Utd huge problems with 2 quick powerful presences up front I looked forward to seeing Saha and Ade get at them. The only concerns I had were with 2 flat ranks off 4 that Rooney and Wellbeck would get space between the lines which they did on occasion and also how much joy they'd get down our left with Modric drifting infield, but I think Ferguson missed a trick by not playing Rafael instead of Jones when he knew Bale wasn't going to be around. Jones isn't great going forward so we weren't overloaded in that area.

So how the fuck did we lose this game, how the fuck did we not win this game?! Walker got done by a very small margin to be fair, it wasn't awful defending and sometimes the ball in is just very good. Once again though, is Friedel guilty of deferring responsibility to his defenders? The second goal Modric has gone to sleep which was very poor, but why wasn't Ekotto on Nani here? I'm not sure Walker is to blame here really, maybe he could have swung his left boot at it but that is nitpicking. The third goal was one of the few times we gave them a bit of space and didn't press the ball, Walker dropped off but he was mindful of the runner down the left and think Kaboul could have come out a bit quicker.

For 60 minutes we were excellent here, we did all the right things well and once again we got fucked by a ref with Ade's goal, and suffered Utd at their most clinical. I'm so gutted, I hate them with a passion.

Friedel 6 Picked the ball out his net 3 times and nothing else to do. Not sure why he tipped it over the bar for the corner and could have been more proactive in dealing with the resulting corner.
Walker 6 Not as poor as some have made out, but when you play Utd I guess that's the difference, those little fine lines.
Ekotto 7 Good game.
King 7 Good game.
Kaboul 7 Good game.
Lennon 8 Once again had joy against Evra, worked hard too. That's the Lennon I have a lot of time for.
Modric 7 Saw a lot less of the ball than he usually does due to him being shifted wide, but he put in a decent performance although went to sleep for the killer 2nd goal. I think in the circumstances it was a good move for him to be shifted to the left here, but it also confirmed my thoughts that Modric is best when he is central and unshackled i.e in a midfield 3. In the centre in a 2 he is in the zone he is best but he can get overrun, on the left whilst he has more freedom to weave his magic he sees a lot less of the ball.
Sandro 7 Still looked a little unfit and operating at about 75% but he still put in a really good shift.
Livermore 8 70 passes at 88% completion is a top return against most sides, a really composed display in the middle and even showed glimpses of a better passing range and with a bit of ingenuity. BC called him a poor mans Jenas, I just think he's essentially JJ mark 2. Top teams aren't just built on Bale/Modric/VDVs, they have decent but unspectacular players in and around the squad who can come in and perform specific remits, United have proved this point better than anyone themselves.
Saha 7 Got among them and caused them problems, good signing.
Adebayor 7 Same as Saha, unsettled United and unlucky to not get any rewards.
Really good observation about Jones/Rafael. I think my first thought after kick off (not knowing what their line up was until I got in just as we kicked off) was seeing Jones and thinking how pleased I was that he'd not played the nippy, attacking Rafael. I think it was a mistake too.

I also thought Friedel - like Robinson before - gets away with being a limpet, purely because he is totally reactive and not proactive. I thought both the corner and the cross for the second one he could have done a lot better. By the time the second one went in he was a yard behind his line.
 

gp13tot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2011
Messages
1,541
#68
Friedel 6
Walker 5
BAE 6
King 6
Kaboul 6
Livermore 6
Sandro 7
Lennon 7
Modric 6
Adebayor 6
Saha 6
 

Chinaspur

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
2,327
#69
Got to give Defoe credit - 9 league goals this season, less than 900 minutes on the pitch.

Ade for comparison - 11 league goals, 2122 minutes on the pitch

Also for all the accusations of blowing hot and cold. Since he started scoring (after 200 minutes of pitch time as he played in our first two matches) his longest scoring 'drought' has been 113 minutes.
 

ShelfSide18

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
8,386
#70
Got to give Defoe credit - 9 league goals this season, less than 900 minutes on the pitch.

Ade for comparison - 11 league goals, 2122 minutes on the pitch

Also for all the accusations of blowing hot and cold. Since he started scoring (after 200 minutes of pitch time as he played in our first two matches) his longest scoring 'drought' has been 113 minutes.
Ade has the second most assists in the Premiership, and also sees a shit load more of the ball than Defoe.

Goals aren't the sole measure of success as a forward.
 

Chinaspur

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
2,327
#72
Ade has the second most assists in the Premiership, and also sees a shit load more of the ball than Defoe.

Goals aren't the sole measure of success as a forward.
but they are the sole measure of success of a team...

Arsenal have scored more than us and only have one functioning striker!
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
14,175
#75
Got to give Defoe credit - 9 league goals this season, less than 900 minutes on the pitch.

Ade for comparison - 11 league goals, 2122 minutes on the pitch

Also for all the accusations of blowing hot and cold. Since he started scoring (after 200 minutes of pitch time as he played in our first two matches) his longest scoring 'drought' has been 113 minutes.
This has always been my problem with the goals per minute stat.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
44,695
#76
Who are you dropping for Parker then in your 4-3-3 Pinky?
Not sure its a tough one :grin: Whoever plays against Stevenage I guess, its that sort of week were you pick two sides for two games close together. Put it like this we want a fresh engine room for the Everton game.
 

sloth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
8,995
#77
I had no complaints there, I thought we were very unlucky, but that's how it goes sometimes, probably evens out a game we were lucky in earlier in the season... the Fulham match maybe?
 

StartingPrice

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip
Joined
Feb 13, 2004
Messages
32,568
#78
I had no complaints there, I thought we were very unlucky, but that's how it goes sometimes, probably evens out a game we were lucky in earlier in the season... the Fulham match maybe?
Don't know about bad luck...I think someone needs to pop down to the Lodge and tell our lot that they need to attack crosses/corners, rather than waiting to react to what the oppos do from them (and, yes, Gareth, that does include you).
 

lukespurs7

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
4,833
#80
Friedel-5
Walker-4
Kaboul-5
King-5
Assou-Ekotto-6
Livermore-7
Sandro-6
Lennon-7
Modric-6
Saha-5
Adebayor-4 absolutely disappointed with his last few performance...really thought he'd be the answer for us winning these sort of games.


Redknapp-4 poor tactics he has to derive a system that allow us to win these game. We're not even close in these big game we get rapped.
Are you for real? We bossed the game for 60mins 2 sloppy individual errors put them ahead then it was always going to be hard, Harry got it spot on with the players available on another day, we score first and win that game.
 
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