►►►►►► Match Ratings VS Wigan Athletic ◄◄◄◄◄◄

Discussion in 'Spurs Chat' started by OmarsComing, Jan 31, 2012.

MOTM?

  1. Friedel

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Walker

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Kaboul

    1.7%
  4. King

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Assou-Ekotto

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Kranjcar

    1.7%
  7. Modric

    16.4%
  8. Parker

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Bale

    67.8%
  10. Van Der Vaart

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. Adebayor

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. Livermore

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  13. Sandro

    0.6%
  14. Lancaster

    11.9%
  1. Maske2g

    Maske2g SC Supporter

    Messages:
    4,053
    Ratings Received:
    +1,627 / 503 / -297

    I'm never surprised by these stats. As an attacker you have makes dozens of runs to make room for yourself or others. And when you close down in a pressing game you have to cover ground, a lot of ground. Whereas as defenders are normally already shaped up to defend and have to occasionally close down 5-10 yards of space, and full backs don't have to work to hard to find space in attack.
     
  2. Coyboy

    Coyboy The Double of 1961 is still The Double

    Messages:
    13,987
    Ratings Received:
    +2,139 / 120 / -86
    Not really no, as I criticize the team and players indiscriminately and objectively.

    You said "all he had to do was finish a very easy chance". Oh wow, then we could all do what Bale does then. No what he had to was make the run as he had been trying to do before Modric got the ball; chest the ball to get the wrong side of the defender then have the agility and technique to get his head and foot over the ball to beat the keeper. Easy as 1..2..3. Mug.

    I accept that Bale can shirk defensive responsibility sometimes but that isn't the issue here and is greatly mitigated anyway; it's what he contributed last night. He scored one very well taken goal (yeah we all know Bus "I am better than Darren Bent" Conductor would have made it look much easier), made a goal for himself out of nothing, almost scored a third picking the ball up on the right near the half way line beating three or four defenders, almost got another late on from which Lancaster could or should have scored the rebound and set up a decent chance for Ade.

    But yeah he was shit.
     
  3. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

    Messages:
    36,955
    Ratings Received:
    +45,301 / 2,069 / -619

    Sloth may have mentioned it but it doesn't mean it's right, and certainly doesn't mean it applies to every piece of criticism or match rating mark I give.

    Ekotto saw more ball than anyone else on our team last night, making 104 passes from 116. That's more than Modric. (I give you the stats purely to back up my rationale) I actually held back from detailing what I thought of Walkers game last night because I'm fed up of saying the same things about him. He defended badly at times and contributed a third of what Ekotto did towards team play. Ekotto would have got a 5 based on some of the stupid shit he did, but his contribution to our team play was massively significant.

    I do not think Walker is a good defender or a good attacker. I think his main attribute is pace, and so far in nearly every game I have seen him, he has shown me nothing to make me change that opinion. I think he is currently, in a footballing sense, the weakest player in our - now - first 11. If he shows me something different I'll say it. Sometimes he's been OK and I have marked him higher, but then I get accused of doing it grudgingly or just to prove I can, so I can't win. But fundamentally, unless he morphs suddenly into a game reading, technically excellent, intelligent footballer, I can't really say much else except "he had a good game today" or "he did this well today" at best, can I ?

    I'm not advocating we drop him, Corluka is technically a better footballer, but is just too slow for this level, and I was one of the first to criticise Corluka and got shit for that too. Walker's pace makes him more viable than Corluka, but I honestly think as a team pushing for a title, we must do better than Walker.
     
  4. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

    Messages:
    36,955
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    +45,301 / 2,069 / -619
    Well done you. You are truly the Steve Davis of criticism.

    Why are you talking bollocks ? Why aren't you being indiscriminate or objective regarding what I said ?

    What I actually said was:

    Bale 7 - Scored two beautifully taken goals. But defensively was shockingly abysmal and also was greedy a couple of other times. Created nothing of note for anyone else.

    Anyone who thinks Bale had a great game didn't see that game IMO. He scored two wonderfully taken goals. The rest of his contribution was very, very ordinary. He gave the ball away nearly a third of the time he had it, created very little and was positively shit when it came to helping his full backs.

    He did a couple of brilliant things but was not brilliant tonight.

    I was disappointed with the poor use Bale made of that freedom most of the night. When you boil it down I really don't think his overall contribution was good. The ball by Modric for the first was superb, all he had to do was finish a very easy chance which he did with aplomb. The second was a goal out of nothing which was a superb piece of skill by him. But other that that what did he actually do in 90 minutes that tangibly exploited his freedom ? What had an end product ?

    I can accept and credit the two very good pieces of skill that helped us win the game, and to be honest, if you called him a striker, his contribution would be good (ie 36 passes, two goals etc) but he's part of our midfield and that comes with the responsibility to help when we don;t have the ball - and he is shocking in this respect and costs us threat almost as much as he creates threat at times.

    He's so good offensively this season that I understand the conundrum, but I can't say I enjoyed his 90, more like about 5 minutes of it.


    It might help if you could count further than 3. Mug.
     
  5. Coyboy

    Coyboy The Double of 1961 is still The Double

    Messages:
    13,987
    Ratings Received:
    +2,139 / 120 / -86
    You are just copying and pasting the same shit. Why do I always have to repeat myself with you?

    1. It wasn't an easy chance, he still had a lot to do.

    2. He created a good chance for Adebayor.

    3. He 'exploited his freedom' by scoring his first from the right, his second from the left, almost scoring a worldy from the inside right and another one late on from the left.

    4. And when VDV went off (as I said) he didn't have the same responsibility as he was further up the pitch to support Ade and had Parker, Livermore and Modric behind him.

    But yes what a great retort, you pressed copy and paste.
     
  6. Coyboy

    Coyboy The Double of 1961 is still The Double

    Messages:
    13,987
    Ratings Received:
    +2,139 / 120 / -86
    No you get shit for calling Walker one of the worst footballers you have seen at Tottenham.
     
  7. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

    Messages:
    36,955
    Ratings Received:
    +45,301 / 2,069 / -619

    Maybe I'm getting old, but I am finding you even more tedious than usual.

    You've earned a few more merits towards your "knock BC boy scout badge" and I have told you twice what I said. I stand by it, so unless you can offer something more substantive than one cross that went too high for a jumping 6.4 Adebayor or that because VDV went off that somehow, in your opinion, gave Bale the license to do what he does most weeks (defend badly) then I reckon we are probably done with this, because I'm done repeating and I can't see you changing your perspective now you've invested so much hissy fit into it.
     
  8. Coyboy

    Coyboy The Double of 1961 is still The Double

    Messages:
    13,987
    Ratings Received:
    +2,139 / 120 / -86
    I'm the one who is having a hissy fit but you the one crying 'oh you're talking bollocks'. BC logic alive and well- from the same person crying into his pillow that he gets 'shit' from the nasty SC bullies. I hope your mummy has called up the Mods.

    There's quite a lot of substance here- that Bale put set up Ade for a header- hardly a sitter but he could have done better. You didn't say 'a sitter Bale created' you asked what else he did of note. Add that to the chances he more or less made for himself and you have enough substance, especially when you realise that his first goal was not an easy chance.

    The point about VDV is pretty obvious. He was replaced by a defensively minded, screening midfielder. This meant Bale had more freedom to attack as we had Parker and Livermore behind him.

    What it comes down to is when you wash away your convenient oversights and petty attempts at put downs is that if 99% of people on here says Bale has a great game, you have to try and contradict that for the sake of it with plain inaccurate reporting of what actually happened (see his first and Ade's header). It's pathetic and absurd; the bloke ran at Wigan constantly creating chances, scored two and we won 3-1 but no because he didn't chase back he was very poor.

    But I am sure you will complain about getting shit and undeservedly so as well, I mean it is clear for all to see or should be that this plank is as much of a liability as an asset; what with him, our worst ever player at right back, a poor defender at left back and a shit coach on the bench, it is a wonder we are 3rd in the league.
     
  9. JimmyG2

    JimmyG2 SC Supporter

    Messages:
    6,721
    Ratings Received:
    +4,395 / 191 / -43
    Friedel...........6.. Nothing wrong. Well positioned for shots.
    Walker...........7.. Moses can be tricky but he did well.
    Kaboul...........7..Unlucky not to score. Sound otherwise.
    King..............7.. Going to be a good signing this lad.
    BAE...............6 Had a lot of the ball but didn't do enough with it.
    Kranjcar.........6 Good to see him start but ran out of steam. Good early work.
    Modric...........8..Back to his best, well nearly. Lovely assist and well taken goal
    Parker ...........7,, Better than of late. Back to fitness?
    VderV.............6.. struggling from early in the game.
    Bale...............8 Good performance, wherever he popped up.
    Adebayor........6..OK. Needs a goal or two to spark him off again.

    Voted for Modric as ghe seemed to up his game against Wigan but perhaps Bale should have shaded it for his all action performance.
     
  10. Spurs_Bear

    Spurs_Bear Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,908
    Ratings Received:
    +12,228 / 444 / -202
    Is that a way of saying that however many times someone touches the ball relates to how well they played? That would explain a lot of things. I can't remember Walker defending badly at all, in fact when he went off and Livermore went to right back with Kranjcar ahead of him we got absolutely raped down the right hand side, so Walker cant have been all bad. And what did Ekotto actually contribute to our team play then? Because in the first half especially, right in front of where I was sitting/standing, he put in nothing but poor cross after poor cross.

    Walker showed two very good bits of control in close succession from cross field balls that were hit (one of them absolutely leathered) which showed more than anything he does have technical ability, his final ball needs a lot of work at the moment, but I don't know many young lads like him who have nailed that at such an early stage of their career. Players like Walcott who although similar in age have had the benefit of playing for the same side for years haven't come on at all in that respect. In fact you could argue that Walcott is a worse player now than when he was when Arsenal first signed him.

    Yeah, yeah that wasn't my point, this is the match ratings thread, where people give their ratings for the gamejust gone. Your 'I remain non plussed' and the lowest mark of anyone in the team just shows that you could have written the ratings report before the game even started, unless he scored a goal when you would probably give him a begrudging 6.
     
  11. Mr Pink

    Mr Pink SC Supporter

    Messages:
    43,545
    Ratings Received:
    +56,243 / 799 / -266
    I was in the Upper East, and I agree Bear - Ekotto had time and space on quite a few occasions first half and totally fluffed his attempts to cross.
     
  12. Spurs_Bear

    Spurs_Bear Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,908
    Ratings Received:
    +12,228 / 444 / -202
    The thing is, I could see what he was attempting, rather than aimlessly float the ball in to Adebayor up against 2 CB's he was trying to find other ways of picking players out with the low driven ball at a diagonal, but his application was shocking for that part.
     
  13. Mr Pink

    Mr Pink SC Supporter

    Messages:
    43,545
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    +56,243 / 799 / -266
    Yeah he was trying that...just wasn't pulling it off.

    At one point he had so much room I was surprised that he didn't carry the ball right in and take a shot on himself...like hitting it across the goal to give others a chance if its saved etc...
     
  14. Spurs_Bear

    Spurs_Bear Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,908
    Ratings Received:
    +12,228 / 444 / -202
    Exactly, and after his thunderbolt against against Everton I'm quite surprised he didn't try it!

    I agree with BC though, I don't like it when he has his hair like that, it affects his play.
     
  15. Mr Pink

    Mr Pink SC Supporter

    Messages:
    43,545
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    Blows him about too much...:wink:
     
  16. sloth

    sloth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,990
    Ratings Received:
    +7,036 / 170 / -64
    BC, I don't mean to get at you, and I think what I'm going to say could apply to anyone on here, but you do have a touch of the anti-Lahn about you in some of your player assessments.

    But at least they're opinions about the football and what you're watching and even if I think they're a bit irrational, they're honest and what makes this board.

    What is really sad are the posters who come on here with some kind of fixation/crush/stalker type attraction to certain other posters. They virtually never talk about Spurs at all, but instead just like to talk about particular posters they dislike.

    Perhaps they'd be better off starting their own websites? They could call it BCCommunity or something and they could discuss him to their hearts content, they could post up pictures of themselves slashing whatever representation they have made of the evil BC, show their voodoo BC dolls with all the pins sticking out of them and just generally discuss topics like whether BC is in fact the anti-Christ and who was worst, Genghis Khan, Adolph Hitler or BC.

    What do you reckon Damian? Coyboy? :lol:
     
  17. sloth

    sloth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,990
    Ratings Received:
    +7,036 / 170 / -64
    Me and a mate were discussing whether if he shaved out a kind of nest in the middle of it, flicked up the ball and caught it in it and then ran the length of the pitch and into the goal, would that be deemed illegal? It's not illegal to balance the ball on your head for instance, as far as I know...
     
  18. ShelfSide18

    ShelfSide18 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,386
    Ratings Received:
    +3,317 / 22 / -9
    My take on the game was that we were very good first half, second half we were pretty dreadful. The forgiving side of me says that at least we had pretty much won the game before we went walkabouts in the second half, the less forgiving side says that was a sign of a team less well drilled than the teams above us, and possibly the difference between us winning the league than not with a very comparable set of players. I know people will look at that statement and go 'what the fuck, we won ffs' and so forth, but it's those fine lines in football that count. We've been on the right side of that fine line more often this season than last, and I'm enjoying it immensely, but I do see things that concern me (and others).

    Sometimes we play football that is thrilling to watch, at our best the most exciting and dynamic team in the league, but I think whilst our best is probably better than City and United, our worst is worse than those 2 - and that's where the difference will probably be come May.

    BC I think you've gone a little OTT on Bale, but accept your criticisms of his off the ball work, he is certainly chief culprit on that account and I regularly mention that. He was certainly moved when VDV went off the pitch into a more advanced role supporting Adebayor as Livermore is no like for like with Rafa so I do think he had more license, and I can't say I wasn't sat on the edge of my seat every time he got the ball. The playground footballer in me loves that, there can be few players as thrilling to watch run with the ball at pace out there and he is matching that with end product now too. He needs to work harder, and see how the benefits of being better drilled off the ball will make him a better player and us a better team, but I do love watching the guy play.

    Friedel 7 Default
    BAE 6 Saw lots of the ball, some good, some bad, the tackle on Di Santo was ugly and deserved a red. Is this where we say 'he's not that kind of player'? I love Disco, but not that tackle.
    Walker 6 Like the pace and attitude, but I want to see something more here. Ok game.
    King 7 Don't think we should be ringing for last orders quite yet.
    Kaboul 8 Very good game, at last we started to plonk some set pieces on his bonce, he attacks the ball better than anyone in our side.
    Parker 7.5 As usual a great shift put in, good use of the ball as ever.
    Modric 8 First half was magnificent, slacked a little in the second. Got us ticking as usual, superb ball to Bale and a top finish. 90 passes @ 93% - excellent.
    Livermore 7 Decent enough, becoming a useful squad player.
    Kranjcar 7.5 Should be used more, always good to watch. Plays with intelligence and whilst lacks that gas that would make him a top player he really has something to offer us.
    Bale 8 2 top goals, some thrilling runs (although should have rolled in Lancaster when he had a shot late on), unlucky not to have an assist when he chipped in Adebayor. Has all the tools there to become a truly world class player, half of it is just putting in more of a shift.
    Adebayor 7 Decent enough.
     
  19. ShelfSide18

    ShelfSide18 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,386
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    +3,317 / 22 / -9
    You watch him plant one in with his 'fro next game.

    Opta are going to have to add another stat column in their database for 'fro scored goals.
     
  20. Kendall

    Kendall Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    38,502
    Ratings Received:
    +12,134 / 717 / -219
    I thought Kranjcar was great fist half, second half his touch was all over the shop and it actually broke down a couple of our counter attacks. He also played a lovely pass to one of their players for an attempt on goal.
     

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