►►►►►► Match Ratings VS Wigan Athletic ◄◄◄◄◄◄

MOTM?

  • Friedel

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Walker

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • King

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Assou-Ekotto

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Parker

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Van Der Vaart

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Adebayor

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Livermore

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    177

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,471
I think you get your favourites and your bete noires - we all do a bit - and your interpretation of player's performances show that you're looking through that lense.

That isn't to say that what you point out isn't the case, lot's of times, but if the same critical approach were taken to every player, or lack of criticism in some cases, then we could paint anyone in the same way as you do Dawson, Walker, Kaboul or Dawson.

Again that isn't to say there isn't a degree of truth in what you say, and also that often you've swam against the tide and got more of the truth - imo - than the people who don't engage their critical faculties at all and just go with the flow. But it is to say that about that truth, my opinion is that you sometimes construct an elaborate exaggeration, something which at it's heart is based on a truth, but in its entirety is a misrepresentation of how things really are.

In other words you're an iconoclast, but in being so - and maybe in the course of having to so often defend opposite positions - your view on certain players seems to veer to the opposite extreme.

But surely that is the problem with having strong opinions on very emotive subjects isn't it. If many times being opposite positions to the consensus then they will often appear more extreme than they actually are. It is only if they ultimately prove to be very wrong that it becomes a problem surely.

Perhaps if we analyse the question SB raised in this match: Why was Ekotto marked 6 and Walker 5 ?

Simplified:
Both made poor judgements on a couple of occasions. We can toss those back and forth. Neither had shitloads to defend but neither defended impeccably. But Ekotto made 104 passes in that game. Walker made 28. They are both full backs, both with similar players that night in front of them. That's 74 more times Ekotto helped us play football, retain the ball, build an attack etc etc. If nothing else there is a point mark right there IMO.

I explained that IMO, Walker really didn't contribute a whole lot that was overtly positive in that game. Whilst Ekotto made mistakes - which I mentioned - and didn't mention Walker's in my original post - he also saw more ball than any other player on our side, Walker less than any other player on our side bar Adebayor - who I gave an extra point than Walker because he was battling alone up front for the whole game.

Brutally extreme or brutally rational ?
 

OmarsComing

Mentally Disturbed Individual!
Joined
Jan 2, 2011
Messages
7,255
Thread starter #102
I think you get your favourites and your bete noires - we all do a bit - and your interpretation of player's performances show that you're looking through that lense.

That isn't to say that what you point out isn't the case, lot's of times, but if the same critical approach were taken to every player, or lack of criticism in some cases, then we could paint anyone in the same way as you do Dawson, Walker, Kaboul or Dawson.

Again that isn't to say there isn't a degree of truth in what you say, and also that often you've swam against the tide and got more of the truth - imo - than the people who don't engage their critical faculties at all and just go with the flow. But it is to say that about that truth, my opinion is that you sometimes construct an elaborate exaggeration, something which at it's heart is based on a truth, but in its entirety is a misrepresentation of how things really are.

In other words you're an iconoclast, but in being so - and maybe in the course of having to so often defend opposite positions - your view on certain players seems to veer to the opposite extreme.
Very eloquently put, old chap.
 

steve

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2003
Messages
3,485
Do you not think the intelligence thing is one of the most important factors though Steve. I mean Ekotto can be fucking lax sometimes but the fact that he has that bit of footballing nous saves him.

It's not just intelligence but composure under pressure. Walker just seems to lack a bit of it.

Walker is tenacious and I have said that previously and that is a good quality but tenacity and speed aren't enough at the level we are now aspiring to be IMO.

If it wasn't for intelligence King would be gone now. It's that ability to read that is compensating for everything else diminishing isn't it ?
I agree re intelligence but I think players can learn to an extent. Walker will never be as intelligent a player as King for example but with experience will come composure which breeds better decision making. I like those tenacious attrbutes in Walkers personality though, it keeps him on his toes - Ekotto's pot smoking, I'm different, it's cool attitude is great for the fans but it lends him at times to be lax in situations when he has no business being so. Not a great trait for a defender.

As for King it's just we're seeing an uber player become a bit more normal. Without doubt he's lost pace whether through carefulness or physical decline (or both most likely) but he's still a cut above to me. At tough away games I think he's more vital than ever because when the periods of inevitable pressure come and we're forced to be compact and defend deep as a team he's brilliant, always in the right spot, composed under pressure and a quiet leader who leads by example.

It's sad to see his physical decline but he's still got lots to offer and he looks like earning a new contract thank God. If Kaboul had his composure and intelligence he'd be the best CB in the world.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
44,524
I agree re intelligence but I think players can learn to an extent. Walker will never be as intelligent a player as King for example but with experience will come composure which breeds better decision making. I like those tenacious attrbutes in Walkers personality though, it keeps him on his toes - Ekotto's pot smoking, I'm different, it's cool attitude is great for the fans but it lends him at times to be lax in situations when he has no business being so. Not a great trait for a defender.

As for King it's just we're seeing an uber player become a bit more normal. Without doubt he's lost pace whether through carefulness or physical decline (or both most likely) but he's still a cut above to me. At tough away games I think he's more vital than ever because when the periods of inevitable pressure come and we're forced to be compact and defend deep as a team he's brilliant, always in the right spot, composed under pressure and a quiet leader who leads by example.

It's sad to see his physical decline but he's still got lots to offer and he looks like earning a new contract thank God. If Kaboul had his composure and intelligence he'd be the best CB in the world.
Finger bang on the pulse here Steve, totally agree with this assessment.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Joined
Dec 7, 2006
Messages
7,209
I don't dislike any Spurs player once he's signedwhatever I thought of them before.
But I love Modric, respect Van Der Vaart and admire Bale for example
and unless they play very badly indeed I am always going to
award them good marks by default as it were. Not just for turning up obviously.
Modric is the heart-beat of the side and is usually our best player.
Van is a clever player who does a lot more than he is often given credit for(see the distance travelled stats). Bale is an exciting match winner.
I find it hard to mark them down because even if they have n average game their average is better than some players best.

We are marking their performance in a specific game but their ability sometimes obscures their actual contribution.
You can mark them down sometimes because they are disappointing but their contribution is still greater than others.

There I think that is clear.
 

Coyboy

The Double of 1961 is still The Double
Joined
Dec 3, 2004
Messages
14,360
I don't dislike any Spurs player once he's signedwhatever I thought of them before.
But I love Modric, respect Van Der Vaart and admire Bale for example
and unless they play very badly indeed I am always going to
award them good marks by default as it were. Not just for turning up obviously.
Modric is the heart-beat of the side and is usually our best player.
Van is a clever player who does a lot more than he is often given credit for(see the distance travelled stats). Bale is an exciting match winner.
I find it hard to mark them down because even if they have n average game their average is better than some players best.

We are marking their performance in a specific game but their ability sometimes obscures their actual contribution.
You can mark them down sometimes because they are disappointing but their contribution is still greater than others.

There I think that is clear.
If you keep typing, the words won't slide off the computer.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,471
I don't dislike any Spurs player once he's signedwhatever I thought of them before.
But I love Modric, respect Van Der Vaart and admire Bale for example
and unless they play very badly indeed I am always going to
award them good marks by default as it were. Not just for turning up obviously.
Modric is the heart-beat of the side and is usually our best player.
Van is a clever player who does a lot more than he is often given credit for(see the distance travelled stats). Bale is an exciting match winner.
I find it hard to mark them down because even if they have n average game their average is better than some players best.

We are marking their performance in a specific game but their ability sometimes obscures their actual contribution.
You can mark them down sometimes because they are disappointing but their contribution is still greater than others.

There I think that is clear.

There is a valid point in there. Especially the bit in bold.
 

OmarsComing

Mentally Disturbed Individual!
Joined
Jan 2, 2011
Messages
7,255
Thread starter #108
Bus Conductor's Favourites':

Kaboul - fucking beast of a guy

VDV - I wanna have his baby

Modric - 9785/9789 pass completed (99.92576289 %) beat that you mf

Palacios (Stoke) proper nawty hard bastard hard as nails bastard, bastard

Bus Conductor's Undesirables':

Dawson - fucking useless donkey player. NOT GOOD ENOUGH, NEVER WILL BE!!!

Defoe - anonymous for 89.3/94.7 minutes of the game, scored 3 lucky goals and was fortunate to set up 2 others.

Walker - a fucking liability, Capello might have picked him for England aged 21, but he's fucking useless

Friedel - never comes off his line!!! Sure we are comfortably in 3rd position, but if he came off of his line we would be comfortably 1st - BRING BACK THAT PROPER NASTY **** Gomes

Lennon - 2 assists and 2 goals IN ONE MATCH IS JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!! 6.5/10
 
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