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2 Points From 8 Games / 39 Points from 24 Games

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Ramos didn't have King available for just about all of his tenure bar a handful.

I have never said Dawson is the worst CB in the EPL but he is no better than most and probably more clanger prone than many.

And any player will appear to improve if surrounded by quality players. Did Dawson improve this season or was it the fact that all of a sudden he was surrounded by Gomes, Woody (or King) & Corluka ?

Just as in 2005-6 he had Salty and King either side and 3/4 CM's in front.

As a back up CB I don't have too many problems with Dawson.
 

gibbs131

Banned
May 20, 2005
8,870
11
Ramos didn't have King available for just about all of his tenure bar a handful.

I have never said Dawson is the worst CB in the EPL but he is no better than most and probably more clanger prone than many.

And any player will appear to improve if surrounded by quality players. Did Dawson improve this season or was it the fact that all of a sudden he was surrounded by Gomes, Woody (or King) & Corluka ?

Just as in 2005-6 he had Salty and King either side and 3/4 CM's in front.

As a back up CB I don't have too many problems with Dawson.

You can't admit defeat. Even I said Modric has been our best player since the start of the year overall.

With you tirade against Harry and Daws you really need to eat some humble pie. Even though yours will look like a pie that is served up for Desperate Dan.
 

lishiyo

Still frustrated :(
Aug 24, 2008
2,368
1
i don't understand why anyone would slate daws, he's often been better than woody this season when they've played together under Harry (granted woody's form wasn't so great at the time) :shrug: in any case i just hope we can keep him happy on the bench, surely when fit he'll at least get midweek games and very likely some league games


for those who are interested (constructed from the monthly tables on footballstats):

here's the Table since the Beginning of January:


1. Man United - 33 (GD 14, PPG 2.538461538)
2. Arsenal - 26 (GD 16, PPG 2.166666667)
3. Liverpool - 25 (GD 16, PPG 2.083333333)
4. Chelsea - 25 (GD 4, PPG 2.083333333)
5. Tottenham - 24 (GD 8, PPG 1.846153846)
6. Everton - 20 (GD 11, PPG 1.666666667)
7. WHU - 20 (GD 5, PPG 1.538461538)
8. Stoke - 19 (GD 0, PPG 1.461538462)
9. Man City - 19 (GD -1, PPG 1.461538462)
10. Fulham - 18 (GD 1, PPG 1.285714286)
11. Villa - 16 (GD -5, PPG 1.230769231)
12. Blackburn - 16 (GD -6, PPG 1.230769231)
13. Pompey - 14 (GD -1, PPG 1.166666667)
14. Bolton - 14 (GD -5, PPG 1.076923077)
15. Sunderland - 13 (GD -4, PPG 1)
16. Wigan - 13 (GD -8, PPG 1)
17. Boro - 11 (GD -10, PPG 0.846153846)
18. Newcastle - 8 (GD -10, PPG 0.615384615)
19. Hull - 7 (GD -11, PPG 0.538461538)
20. WBA - 7 (GD -14, PPG 0.538461538)


To make us look even better, here's the Table since the Beginning of February (when the window closed) - since the number of games played range from 8 to 11, I ranked by PPG instead:

1. Liverpool - (22) 2.44
2. Man United - (18) 2.25
3. Arsenal - (18) 2.25
4. Tottenham - (20) 2.22
5. Chelsea - (19) 2.11
6. Everton - (15) 1.875
7. Stoke - (15) 1.67
8. Pompey - (13) 1.44
9. Fulham - (15) 1.36
10. WHU - (12) 1.33
11. Man City - (13) 1.3
12. Bolton - (10) 1.11
13. Blackburn - (11) 1.1
14. Wigan - (8) 1
15. Boro - (9) 1
16. Sunderland - (9) 0.9
17. Newcastle - (7) 0.7
18. Villa - (6) 0.67
19. Hull - (6) 0.67
20. WBA - (3) 0.33



I'm rather surprised a lot of fans are still viewing the trip to Villa Park with some trepidation - they're in even worse form than Newcastle (with luck they'll lose or draw their next game so we can say their run was even worse than ours - 3/4 as opposed to our 5 points in 9 games Eek). Pompey has also been in good recent form, shows how bad Donkey Adams was with a decent side. Pulis deserves some kind of reward even if Stoke play awful 'football', what he's done there on pennies is very impressive. Wigan have not been so good since a certain Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiillllllson left (though Heskey's loss and Zaki's non-existence haven't helped either)...

We've had some good luck in our victories, some of which remind me of Villa's rather fortunate purple patch (so we need to starting showing more lethalness in the final third soon), but it's a shame about those 3 dropped points at Ewood - we could've gone ahead of Man Utd and l'Arse in "post-jan window form". Our next five games are extremely difficult barring WBA (I hope) but we've played better against the stronger opposition anyways, and you can never predict anything with Spurs (for good or ill).
 

DC_Boy

New Member
May 20, 2005
17,608
5
great stats again lishiyo - i'd rep ya, but I can't :)

am i right in thinking we're the only team to beat hiddink's chelsea in any competition whatsoever?

what a job we've done since HR got in some players to boost the squad

now let's finish it off and get the necessary points for 7th - it's a massive massive task and will require the sort of consistency we rarely manage both home and away - but we're equipped to do it

only if the whole team and the fans really battle as one though is it likely to happen

I think we'll need at least 9 points from the next 5 - big big big ask
 

Destroyer

B513 R16
Jun 12, 2004
4,026
192
Its a shame in a sense that if you finished 7th there was no Europa spot - we could without it for a year.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,179
48,764
Ramos didn't have King available for just about all of his tenure bar a handful.

I have never said Dawson is the worst CB in the EPL but he is no better than most and probably more clanger prone than many.

And any player will appear to improve if surrounded by quality players. Did Dawson improve this season or was it the fact that all of a sudden he was surrounded by Gomes, Woody (or King) & Corluka ?

Just as in 2005-6 he had Salty and King either side and 3/4 CM's in front.

As a back up CB I don't have too many problems with Dawson.

As I say its not just that King and Woody are good players, its that they are the right sort of players to fit with Dawson. Its the same with John Terry, he looks a lot better with Carvalho and Ferdinand's pace and positioning to sweep up the threat behind, so he is free to attack the ball and dominate the centre forward, Dawson does exactly the same.

He also seems to have cut out the lapses in concentration, particularly at set pieces, although as has been discussed, nobody is immune from mistakes. Woody, for all his good form, has made quite a few errors that have led to goals this season, how lucky was he that Di Michele fluffed that chance that could have changed the game the other week? Getting right underneath a routine long ball when trying to head it clear is pretty much a school-boy error.

Criticising Dawson is such a classic Spurs fan view, yes he can't do everything brilliantly, but as astute managers like David Moyes show, if you you pair the right players with limited ability together you can emerge with the right blend and a a strong team
 

Delboy10

Active Member
Feb 25, 2005
4,212
0
"Ramos didn't have King available for just about all of his tenure bar a handful"

...Yet when he did have him available, he opted to only play him in the UEFA Cup! Very clever management that! :duh:
 

Coyboy

The Double of 1961 is still The Double
Dec 3, 2004
15,506
5,032
You make a fair point about Lenon, I hadn't realised he'd started just over half our games (I made it 21 when I looked), but we still played just under half with 4 CM's and the rest with 3. Jenas was probably the most attacking of them - which tells you everything. The others were Davids, Tainio, Carrick, Mendes & Brown.

And as you will remember, it wasn't just who played but how we played. We played a far more defensive game that season, which even Jol spoke about when referring to how he tried to play a more expansive game the following year.

There was no attempt to deceive, I just hadn't checked the appearances for individual players. I did also state that it was tactical as well.

And I don't give any credit to Robinson at all. I think from a long way out I was calling him shit (using the term relatively) and 100% stand by that.
Dawson was always a liability, and still is. But I did give Dawson credit for being game.

Ok, so you should probably check your facts. I don't mean that in a scornful way just saying, I thought Lennon had played a hell of a lot games after he impressed so quickly but had to check the actual number. So I think that even if we played with three defensive midfielders and Lennon, that is not exactly backs against the wall- or eight backs against the wall. Plenty of teams play with similar combinations and still let in more goals and don't come within a stomach bug of fourth. Give credit where it's due.

We did play more defensively but are you complaining? After years of Vegas, Austins and Nethercott's it wasn't a bad way to lay foundations for success. I don't think the football was dull and it was certainly effective. In fact once Mido went on a strop and got injured, we played so very good yet defensively solid football on the whole.

You cannot give credit to a goalkeeper who was in goal for every single game in which we let in so few goals? Well that says more about your lack of objectivity than it does about Robinson, ditto Dawson. How has he been a 'liability' this season, the odd mistake here and there excepted he has been tremendous. Why do you pile praise on Jenas for his workrate and attitude but almost chide Dawson, O'Hara and Bent for theirs, especially as all three are good players.

As for the other comment about Ramos' hardship about not having King fit enough? You are kidding right? He had him but didn't use him. It's hardly the same thing.
 

Bobishism

*****istrator
Aug 23, 2004
15,035
126
You can't admit defeat. Even I said Modric has been our best player since the start of the year overall.

With you tirade against Harry and Daws you really need to eat some humble pie. Even though yours will look like a pie that is served up for Desperate Dan.

Thats rich coming from a guy that can't admit to being completely wrong.
Oh you weren't wrong about Modric being too lightweight for the premierleague and not what we needed? Instead it's you were partly wrong, but right about us needing tougher players.

Well done.
 
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