2 wins, but lacking creativity

[ravo]

Just saw a stat on twitter. Chadli is tied with Hazard for creating the most scoring chances so far (9). He can't be that bad...

Edit, here's the tweet.

@EPLStatman: Eden Hazard and Nacer Chadli have created the joint most chances in the Premier League this season (9) #CFC #THFC (@Squawka stats)

 

[ravo]

If you are relying on Siggy and Holtby for this seasons creativity, then I'm afraid that you're in for some massive disappointment. Neither are good enough for starting position let alone flowing with creative juices.

Paulinho first. Holtby and Siggy as back-up. I think everyone is overreacting at the minute. Lamela will help massively.

 

[tomo]

Paulinho first. Holtby and Siggy as back-up. I think everyone is overreacting at the minute. Lamela will help massively.

If we sign him....

 

[vonn]

Thought this was interesting.

EPL Stat Man ‏@EPLStatman 4h
Tottenham have created the joint most chances so far this season (31) but have failed to score from open play #THFC (stats from @Squawka)

 

[parklane1]

Thought this was interesting.

EPL Stat Man ‏@EPLStatman 4h
Tottenham have created the joint most chances so far this season (31) but have failed to score from open play #THFC (stats from @Squawka)

But ( according to some) we lack creativity.

 

[Kingstheman]

What they mean is we lack the thrill factor we had under Redknapp between 2009 and 2011.

 

[muppetman]

Not sure it's realistic (for Spurs!) to achieve all of our transfer goals in one window. It has however, been the most amazing window so maybe, just maybe.

 

[Buckoxx]

Can see us grinding a lot of 1-0 wins come end of season anyway.

Teams know we are a threat on the counter with our pace and both teams we have played now are happy to just sit back and allow us to try and break them down, while they hit us on the counter with our high back line.

I dont think creativity is the problem, it's the killer pass. Its hard to make it through a wall of 9 players.

 

[Kendall]

Not being funny but we're currently playing without our 85-100m rated forward, top scorer and multiple footballer of the year award winner and have not sealed a replacement yet, so this side isn't the finished article. We also had four new starters in the side.

I couldn't give a flying fuck if we have no shots on goal and only win games via own goals at this point. Things will settle down. And thats before I disagree with the lack of creativity. Paulinho seemed rusty, but he had 3 good chances to score after great work by our wing/midfield. Townsend had a good effort saved as well.

Sure we're not carving teams up like say, Arsenal have been in their games, but that comes with having a settled team who know eachother's movements.

 

[Ironskullll]

People seem to have very short memories, last season with Bale we struggled to break down teams that defended deep and before that with VdV and Modric we still struggled. Why ? Contrary to the accepted wisdom on SC that the way to create is by having one or more magical players with "guile" who play a killer pass the reality is that the best way to beat teams defending deep is with great movement. The players of last season and before lacked the physical attributes and technical capabilities to play a fast moving game. I think AVB has largely fixed that now, no doubt Lamela and other arrivals will help but the most important aspect of developing a fast paced high movement game is time on the training pitch and in games and they haven't had that yet. The fact we can win points and avoid conceding goals while they develop this is very encouraging.

Stop the moaning, the season is a marathon not a sprint. COYS

Thank God for some sanity. I was beginning to despair.

I see and hear so many football supporters saying things along these lines, not just Spurs supporters. It's as if only one player in a team need ever supply this mysterious quality called "creativity", but that when he does it should be in bucket loads. It's almost as if the hallmark of any good team, and badge of honour for the fans is that one talismanic player with that quality, without which a team is seen as dour and ugly to watch. It's partly Spurs' fault of course, with us having invented push and run (aka pass and move) back in the late 40s and early 50s, and having had so many of Britain's most stylish and creative players since then.

But exactly what does creativity mean? Looking for examples, we think of Ginola, Hoddle, Waddle, Modric, Ardiles, Gazza, Yorath, Blanchflower. Not at all similar players, but perhaps all better known for how they played for the 45 minutes out of 90 when their team was in possession. When I think of teams who don't have particularly creative players but who still somehow manage to be successful, I think of teams who are at least a little bit brutal, like the Liverpool, Leeds and Arsenal teams of the late 60s and 70s, but then I shouldn't really deny that those teams did have midfield maestros of the likes of Giles, Graham and Souness; we just don't tend to classify their football as particularly entertainment or sweet on the eye. If we're looking for entertainment and free flowing football then perhaps more recently we think of the very un-arsenal teams of Wenger - great (said through gritted teeth) to watch but maybe that arose more from incredible strength and athleticism than from pure creativity. Who were their great sources of creativity? Bergkamp? Is that it?

When we think of teams such as Graham's Arsenal we think of teams built from the back who were so solid defensively that there were so many games that ended 1-0 that might have seemed closer to 1-1 or 1-2 in terms of "creative football" that they actually won things, which always did confound me. Those teams weren't shy of just lumping the ball up front, by-passing midfield altogether. Possession would change hands very often, and spells of possession would be very short, a particular contrast with today's game being the sheer number of passes teams make nowadays whilst they are in possession, as they probe and look for the opportunity to exploit the most fleeting weakness on the opposition's guard. If they don't see the weakness then they don;t play the ball. If the weakness hasn't been created by the off the ball movement, how can lack of creativity by the player on the ball be blamed? If the defensive team's defensive movement has been so good as to nullify the off the ball movement of the attacking team then how can they be blames? Perhaps then they just need to back off, draw the opposition forward and create space behind them. Maybe even let them have the ball now and again and bring them forward so as to get them on the counter.

What I, as a supporter find difficult to assess is how much creativity is actually on display at any given time. How decisive do we want to be and when? It's not just about what players do it's about when they do it, in terms of the development and passage of the game, and it's about the appropriateness of what they do and the chances of success. But in the meantime what I do see is a team that is becoming exceedingly good a rattling that ball around in fluid midfield triangles at quite a speed, pulling opposition players out of position, as if to get them dizzy and disoriented before delivering a killer blow. That might not be ultra-creative but it's a hell of a lot better to watch than teams that just thump the ball upfield hoping for the percentages to pay off, all alongside employing gamesmanship and preparing to stoop to the lowest of tactics.

I've seen too many Spurs games over the years where the creative players were robbed whilst being creative and ended up losing a game for us. One example suddenly springing to mind is Ossie getting robbed by Terry McDermott in front of the old West Stand in a cup 1/4 final, and seconds later we were one down.

So what am I saying? I'm saying that 1) creativity comes in many shapes and sizes but shouldn't necessarily be confused with individuality or "flair", and mavericks don't make winning teams in this day and age, if ever; 2) there is such a thing as "team creativity". Yes we don't have a Modric or a Willian but hell's bells Willian wasn't even on the radar a month ago so he can hardly be considered a loss or an example of our plans having floundered. And, it does seem as though AVB is looking for technique, strength and discipline as qualities at the top of his list. If the need to avoid risk tempers creativity in the foreseeable future, then I'm not sure I have a big problem with that. We've had stacks of creativity and "class" over the years - just look at the number of PotY awards Spurs players have got, but it hasn't delivered the trophies, has it? So really, there is more to it all than meets the eye, and I'm ready to be pretty darned patient with AVB doing what he's doing with the squad at present - it looks good to me.

ps "Yorath" was a joke

 

[ClintEastwould]

'creativity' is just a general term to describe a player who has vision, passing range etc. someone who can see things on the pitch earlier than others, someone who can thread a through ball with the perfect weight of pass. We are very methodical and solid now and all we need is 1 or 2 of these players to exploit our system

If you dont think we need this type of player then you are frankly naive. Have you not noticed how isolated our 26m record breaking top class striker has been NO ONE passes to him. We NEED that player.

 

[Ironskullll]

If you had a time machine and could go back 12 months and endow Walker with a little more composure, Defoe with a little better positional awareness and the team as a whole a little more effectiveness at dead balls, how many extra points do you think you'd be able to glean for the team? 2 gets 4th place; 4 gets 3rd and 7 gets 2nd; all with no change in the creativity department. The measure of the improvements to the squad/team so far exceed those deficiencies, IMO, again without any major impact on creativity. The Bale issue is, of course, huge, and potentially decisive, but my point is that you can improve a team without doing anything about creativity. There are more ways than one to skin a cat.

I'm certainly NOT arguing that an extraordinarily effective creative player wouldn't benefit the team, but I don't buy the suggestion that the players there already are not pretty special in that department; nor the implication that creativity has to be the preserve of one superstar on a team or that a team cannot prosper or play good attractive football at its level without such a player; nor the implication that the presence of one decisively creative player will always be noticed (tonight's Manure Chelski game being a great example of this). This doesn't equate to not wanting such a player, just to not despairing at his absence.

The point that someone else made that you have to watch out with what you might lose in recruiting such a player was, I thought well made. In my opinion, much of the excitement generated by Tottenham teams over the last 40 or 50 years arose not just from the creativity of certain players but from the unpredictability of the team's play. Or, to be clearer, the unacceptable level of risk which teams played with and which contributed in its own way to a high number in the against column. And that's the sort of dilemma which managers and coaches at the highest level have to deal with.

 

[Wardy]

Who needs creativity when we can win all our games with penalties

 

[Gardham90]

We've only played 2 games, with a host of new signings. They're bound to take time to gel. We look solid as fuck in the middle. That is all.

 

[dynamoSpurs]

Solid as fuck in the middle isn't going to keep on winning us games, especially against better opposition.

Without some creativity with an eye for a pass to Mr 26mil, this formation is going to fail.

 

[GutBucket]

Look at how Bayern played last season, how many goals did Mandzukic score because of amazing through ball?¸Zero, all his goals were from crosses or tap-ins. But Bayern were running a lot, pressing a lot and moving the ball quickly and precisely. Townsend plays in similar way to Robben but we don't have our version of Ribery. Chadli can cross well but he isn't a guy who will glide past players, go inside the box and make something out of it.

Once we add Lamela/Eriksen/Turan/Hulk and our players gel more nobody will talk about creativity issues.

 

[Shanks]

Not being funny but we're currently playing without our 85-100m rated forward, top scorer and multiple footballer of the year award winner and have not sealed a replacement yet, so this side isn't the finished article. We also had four new starters in the side.

I couldn't give a flying fuck if we have no shots on goal and only win games via own goals at this point. Things will settle down. And thats before I disagree with the lack of creativity. Paulinho seemed rusty, but he had 3 good chances to score after great work by our wing/midfield. Townsend had a good effort saved as well.

Sure we're not carving teams up like say, Arsenal have been in their games, but that comes with having a settled team who know eachother's movements.

Have to say, this pretty much sums it up.

We are winning, and apparentlyu not creating much - which seems to contradict the fact we as a team have created more opportunities than any other team - our issue is putting those chances away - something we saw last season too.

This needs to be addressed, and will settle down.

However, when we look at Chelsea, United, Arsenal - when they win and play shit, every bangs on about thats what great teams do...

We've got 6 points from our first two games for the first time in god knows how many years, lets hope it's 9 in 3 come next weekend.

Lets not make jokes, we will go through a blip at some point in the season, but lets put to bed these 'easier' games, anyway what so ever.

 

[tobi]

Look at how Bayern played last season, how many goals did Mandzukic score because of amazing through ball?¸Zero, all his goals were from crosses or tap-ins. But Bayern were running a lot, pressing a lot and moving the ball quickly and precisely. Townsend plays in similar way to Robben but we don't have our version of Ribery. Chadli can cross well but he isn't a guy who will glide past players, go inside the box and make something out of it.

Once we add Lamela/Eriksen/Turan/Hulk and our players gel more nobody will talk about creativity issues.

I agree to an extent but Kroos, Ribery and Schweinsteiger all have vision and awareness and can play through balls consistently.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

Cant help but think that some people were watching a different game to me. We should have been 4 up by half time against swansea, and if paulinho had taken any of his three gilt edged chances then this thread wouldnt exist.

 

[Blake Griffin]

sign lamela and eriksen this week and there will be no problem.