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3-4-3/3-4-1-2 or 3-1-4-2 - Basically 3 at the back.

vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
Aug 5, 2006
3,356
3,330
For me it's simple; 3 at the back = Bale/Lennon doing more defensive work = bad.

Most of the formations being put forward are using 2 DM's plus Dembele, and if Lennon/Bale have to do more defensive cover then surely the team as a whole will be less inclined to come forward in numbers. When you consider how little Defoe offers to our hold up play then we would be even more dispersed.

I think it's an idea that's good in principle but unless executed perfectly just doesn't work. And we don't have the personnel to do it perfectly.
 

DEFchenkOE

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2006
10,527
8,052
It's a good idea and certainly something to try, maybe against Panathinaikos at home. The thing is for a 3 at the back to work you need an intelligent team. Not just one or two players. You need a team of players who are tactically aware and no how to adapt to different systems.

Both Napoli and Juve have been very successful playing 3 at the back. Actually 3-4-1-2 was a common system used by lots of Italian teams not so long ago. Since they can still keep a "no 10" and also 2 strikers.

Also Guardiola deployed a 3-4-3 on some occasions during his time at Barca, basically with Busquets slotting in-between the 2 cb's Pique and Puyol.

I think to any system with 3 at the back though the wing backs are critical. Maggio and Zuniga/Dossena were great at this for Napoli, as is Lichtsteiner and Asamoah for Juve.

I don't think Bale wants to be a wingback now, I think he definitely sees himself operating further forward. I don't think Walker has the intelligence or attacking quality to play as a right wingback.

Maybe I could be proved wrong but I doubt it.
 

only1waddle

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2012
8,149
12,291
It's a good idea and certainly something to try, maybe against Panathinaikos at home. The thing is for a 3 at the back to work you need an intelligent team. Not just one or two players. You need a team of players who are tactically aware and no how to adapt to different systems.

Both Napoli and Juve have been very successful playing 3 at the back. Actually 3-4-1-2 was a common system used by lots of Italian teams not so long ago. Since they can still keep a "no 10" and also 2 strikers.

Also Guardiola deployed a 3-4-3 on some occasions during his time at Barca, basically with Busquets slotting in-between the 2 cb's Pique and Puyol.

I think to any system with 3 at the back though the wing backs are critical. Maggio and Zuniga/Dossena were great at this for Napoli, as is Lichtsteiner and Asamoah for Juve.

I don't think Bale wants to be a wingback now, I think he definitely sees himself operating further forward. I don't think Walker has the intelligence or attacking quality to play as a right wingback.

Maybe I could be proved wrong but I doubt it.


I always thought that Ekotto had the perfect blend to be a wing back, certainly out of our squad at the moment he is the most suited.. maybe young Adam Smith also
 

ItsBoris

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,467
8,604
I'm a big fan of the Italian sort of formations which rely on fullbacks/wingbacks to provide the width. I agree that when we switched to 3 at the back we looked much better, the thing though is that we don't have a player like Pirlo so that might be a problem, idk.

I would just play Lennon and Bale as the wingbacks, Caulker, Kaboul, and Vertonghen as CB's, Sandro, Carroll, Dembele as midfield and Adebayor and Defoe up top. Who knows it could work.

---------------------Lloris-------------
--------Kaboul ---Caulker --- Vertonghen----------
Lennon--Carroll--Sandro---Dembele---Bale----
--------------Defoe-------Adebayor-------------
 

stevenqoz

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2006
2,776
553
Bale is a natural wing back but the point is that you actually need 3 people who can play the role because you invariably 'use them up'.... One such wing back being on the bench. My sides have played 3 5 2 for 20 years at the U18 rep level and more often than not two of the three CB's are direct markers while the third plays sometimes as a sweeping playing. Like most formations it is about personell....Townsend and Rose could probably play as wing backs. As a coach you need to be open to all possibilties and 3 at the back is just one....funny that once again things have gone full circle...the best sides do it again and the rest eventually follow
 

Adam456

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2005
4,453
3,117
It always looks pretty and it almost seems like you are creating an extra player from nothing as the wingers effectively do 2 jobs. The problem, in England, is that we are coached from a early age to play two banks of 4 players. It's not been a great leap to modify that to a 4'5'1 for many clubs as in reality you basically play a goal-scoring attacking midfielder as the 5th man and he has licence to drop back or make runs forward. Virtually everybody else does the same job as before - the remaining two midfielders are already well coached at ensuring that one of them is covering the back four at all times. For me, the 433 and 4'2'31 are pretty similar in practice but get quoted depending on the exact personnel on the day (and even the opposition).

Virtually every time a coach uses 3 at the back they have to abandon it because it introduces another level of defensive decision-making that the players just can't cope with. Very simple example - does the 'central' CB go across to help cover the full-back position when the wing-back is caught upfield ? Or should the DM have already moved across just in case but leaving the middle hugely vulnerable, without a player of his abilities. Or one of the two holding/attcking MFs ? As some have said perhaps the CBs could follow it but it's the implications on the rest of the side too. 4 at the back and 2 wingers (who are simply the wide-forwards in a 433) takes away a huge amount of decision-making, partly because of the usual dimensions of the pitch and human beings. As a defender, stay broadly in your 20 (up-down) x 15 (left-right) yd zone (which is of course a bit further forward in posession) and you will rarely be badly out of position. If you do get really far forward then the player immediately in front of you (winger for FB, DM for CB) knows he should be aware of a break/drop back. Keeps it very, very simple

Will English clubs ever get to a point where we can play it regularly (it was popular with a few sides for about 3/4 season in the mid-zeroes) ? Don't know. If any EPL manager can actually coach it then it's probably AVB but I'd be amazed if he decides it's a good idea for the foreseeable future. If you did then you'd want to narrow your pitch to the lower limit (50yds) !

The ridiculous part of this discussion is how often Lennon gets dropped for these formations, despite being one of our most consistent and hard-working players in the league this season
 

kcmei

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2008
7,112
1,330
3 at the back with lennon and bale on the wings will be suicidal
 
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