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3-5-2 with Lennon as an impact sub

FromTheLane

New Member
Jul 3, 2008
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The more that I think about this the more it seems to make sense given

a) Our absolutely ridiculous abundance of centre-backs, and their range of strengths which cannot be possibly utilised fully in a two man defence (e.g. Bassong and Kaboul's bringing the ball out from the back, Dawson's organisation and heading being more suited to him playing as the deepest of 3 centre backs)

b) Bale and Walker (our future RB as of next year surely) being 'bombers' whose ideal position would seem to be as up and down all energy wing backs not overly burdened with defensive responsibility but coming onto the ball and with the energy and pace over 90 minutes to still get back

c) Huddlestone's best position as a quarter back ala Pirlo, dropping deep to pick the ball up with runners ahead and start attacks from deep while intercepting and cutting balls out in front of the back four, but without the burden of having to get around the pitch, so essentially just patrolling.

d) Our interest in Diarra/ a ball winner, and the extent of the interest/ the nature of a player of the profile we are looking for being the kind who is not going to want to be a squad rotation player, and the obvious problem of accommodating all three of them, Modric and Huddlestone into a two man midfield.

e) Van der Vaart, Pienaar and Modric all being best as relatively unrestricted creative roaming players

We played this formation almost throughout against Newcastle, with Bale and Hutton getting very high in the first half, but especially when chasing the game in the final quarter, when Bassong obviously dropped in as a 3rd centre back and Lennon went to wing-back, which coincided with our most dangerous and assured spell.

I just think that the following team could be lethal as well as more conducive to squad rotation with many of the players highly interchangeable and adaptive

Gomes

Kaboul Dawson Gallas

Hutton/ Walker Huddlestone Modric Diarra Bale

Van Der Vaart Defoe/ New Striker

Pienaar could interchange with any three midfield positions or VDV, likewise Palacios/Jenas/O'Hara with any of the midfield and King/Woodgate/Caulker/Bassong/Khumalo/Corluka with an of the back three, and then Lennon as an impact player for either wingback or second striker; it just would seem to make the most of resources in a much more integrated and structured way and with greater continuity.

When you consider that the assumed above being our first eleven the below of

Pletikosa

Khumalo/Caulker King/Woodgate Bassong/Corluka

Walker/Hutton Jenas/Kranjcar Palacios Pienaar Ekotto

Defoe Crouch

would make up our squad options, and the prospect for other teams and out strength in depth is simply terrifying.

I realise this is slightly rambling and not brilliantly put but do you get my point?

WHat do you reckon?
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
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I think it's an option for us. Last season we played 442 with two strikers and no one playing the deep/VDV role. VDV has been superb but the change hasn't always been successful.

We're not scoring enough goals and I believe our formation and style of play is partly responsible for this, it's not simply our strikers fault!

At times during the game I'd like us to try 3 centre backs with 2 wingers and Modric and Huddlestone cente mid with VDV behind two strikers. It's risky but we'd cause some real problems for the opposition.
 

FromTheLane

New Member
Jul 3, 2008
214
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I think it's an option for us. Last season we played 442 with two strikers and no one playing the deep/VDV role. VDV has been superb but the change hasn't always been successful.

We're not scoring enough goals and I believe our formation and style of play is partly responsible for this, it's not simply our strikers fault!

At times during the game I'd like us to try 3 centre backs with 2 wingers and Modric and Huddlestone cente mid with VDV behind two strikers. It's risky but we'd cause some real problems for the opposition.

Yeah thats not a bad shout but I was thinking more along the lines of actually institutionalising it as a system top to bottom kind of thing. The main hindrance to this is generally players intelligence and willingness to adapt, something that had been lacking in the past certainly. Our squad has enough of a blend now, and enough players of the kind willing to take new concepts on board that, with the structure of the squad and the depth we have being as it is, as well as the range of players, it would seem to make the most sense and give us the greatest interchangeability and continuity, as well as getting the absolute best out of each and every one of our best players to the benefit of the team as a united whole.

You with me?
 

stemark44

Well-Known Member
Mar 17, 2005
6,598
1,829
I said a few weeks ago that I could see us changing formation either for the rest of this season or from the beginning of next and 3-5-2 is the one we will use.
 

Berglad

Well-Known Member
Aug 12, 2008
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I think it's good as an option, I wanted us to go 3-5-2 when bale went off against newcastle with lennon on the left and was surprised when harry actually did it later in the game.

I'd actually prefer lennon as the right "wingback" instead of hutton/kaboul, the 3-5-2 these days to be actually more defensive than attacking as the fullbacks usually do what they normally do but you trade out a midfielder for an extra CB. For us, I'd rather the extra CB be a cover man, effectively trading a defender to fit in all the attackers we want (bale, modric, DM, VDV lennon, striker, striker)....perhaps a better idea on paper than in practice though!

I feel like we sort of play this at times anyway when bale and corluka are the fullbacks as when bale goes forward often corluka tucks in with the CBs.
 

FromTheLane

New Member
Jul 3, 2008
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I think it's good as an option, I wanted us to go 3-5-2 when bale went off against newcastle with lennon on the left and was surprised when harry actually did it later in the game.

I'd actually prefer lennon as the right "wingback" instead of hutton/kaboul, the 3-5-2 these days to be actually more defensive than attacking as the fullbacks usually do what they normally do but you trade out a midfielder for an extra CB. For us, I'd rather the extra CB be a cover man, effectively trading a defender to fit in all the attackers we want (bale, modric, DM, VDV lennon, striker, striker)....perhaps a better idea on paper than in practice though!

I feel like we sort of play this at times anyway when bale and corluka are the fullbacks as when bale goes forward often corluka tucks in with the CBs.


Very true, and I take your point about Lennon, any would be a good option to be honest, I just wonder whether that might leave us too exposed though. Corluka/ Kaboul tucking in as a sort of RCB with Lennon wide is also great option to have.....just think that Lennon is ultimately a better impact sub due to the nature of his skill set such that using him as such might be most effective, while the great thing about wing backs like Bale and Walker is that there pace and energy almost gives you the best of both worlds.

Chelsea played some brilliant football with this formation in Scolari's brief tenure, but I just think that with the settledness of our squad we could do the same just with better players and without the internal conflict that caused that to self destruct. Could be absolutely unbeatable, especially with players like Lennon and Crouch being deployed in their most effective capacities as impact players.
 

stevenqoz

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2006
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You are taking on years of fear and ignorance to suggest that we ever start with this one in the EPL. The last twenty minutes against Newcastle we did go with it and interestingly our 'left' wingback Lennon cut in to score. Bale is a wing back.....hence the arguments over LB or LW for him.....we don't usually consider the exact 3 5 2 line-up that would probably suit him best. Personally my sides have predominantly sides have used this system for 18 years very successfully. The key factor is that you don't only have players with the athleticism to play wingback but you also have replacements on the bench to replace them because they wear out! Looking at our squad I'd say that both Bale and BAE could play the role left-side. Over on the right Lennon(who has added stamina to his pace with us) Hutton and Kaboul could all play the role effectively. 3 5 2 can be a very attacking formation and those who believe we are open with the flat 4 4 2 we sometimes play will have heart attacks.
Do I think it will work or be used by us in the EPL? Not as a starting formation. The last team to use it extensively(if I remember correctly) with success was Arsenal who had the three centre backs as a basis. Instead I see Harry as having it in his toolbag and pulling it out like against the toon. As a start maybe in the FA Cup.
 

FromTheLane

New Member
Jul 3, 2008
214
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You are taking on years of fear and ignorance to suggest that we ever start with this one in the EPL. The last twenty minutes against Newcastle we did go with it and interestingly our 'left' wingback Lennon cut in to score. Bale is a wing back.....hence the arguments over LB or LW for him.....we don't usually consider the exact 3 5 2 line-up that would probably suit him best. Personally my sides have predominantly sides have used this system for 18 years very successfully. The key factor is that you don't only have players with the athleticism to play wingback but you also have replacements on the bench to replace them because they wear out! Looking at our squad I'd say that both Bale and BAE could play the role left-side. Over on the right Lennon(who has added stamina to his pace with us) Hutton and Kaboul could all play the role effectively. 3 5 2 can be a very attacking formation and those who believe we are open with the flat 4 4 2 we sometimes play will have heart attacks.
Do I think it will work or be used by us in the EPL? Not as a starting formation. The last team to use it extensively(if I remember correctly) with success was Arsenal who had the three centre backs as a basis. Instead I see Harry as having it in his toolbag and pulling it out like against the toon. As a start maybe in the FA Cup.

On your 'very open' point I think this is where Huddlestone is crucial. Basically my idea of it is that when we have the ball he will 'drop in', so to speak just in front of the back three, which will compress, thus allowing the wing backs to push on, and so providing the width. This will mean that, with Dawson behind, we are effectively playing a diamond back four which is staggered, with Dawson deeper to mop up the mess and Huddlestone more advanced to mop things up in front and use the ball. Gallas and Kaboul are then effectively flanking them as very narrow right and left backs, but with the ability to push wide if we lose the ball suddenly and are hit wide on the break before Bale and Walker have had a chance to get back in behind.

Obviously the system would take a while to perfect, but with any tactical adjustment the key is clearly continuity and squad spirit/experience together...I think we are reaching a stage now where this is at a point where we are able to tweak things comfortably, such is the familiarity with one another that Harry has built.

The whole thing just seems to make so much sense on a number of levels, and with a full pre-season next year to integrate it I see no reason why it shouldn't thrive and allow us the best of both worlds as both a controlling and counter-attacking team.

Do you see what I am getting at?
 

stevenqoz

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2006
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As I said I don't need convincing on the efficacy of 3 5 2. You have two main alternatives with the middle midfield three. Either 2 and 1 or 1 and 2. You suggest Huddlestone and 1 and 2. I'd go the other way and have 2, Huddlestone and Modric with VDV in front of them. True Huddlesstone will be slightly more defensive than Modric but as we are seeing at the moment a fit Modric is displaying immense stamina and naturually comes to pick the ball off the centre backs as does (Huddlestone) I did not consider Walker but seeing him at Villa and QPR he also has the right attributes for a wing back.
We have obviously been working on this formation at training, hence the ease that it was adopted at Newcastle. For me the key benefit of occasionally playing 3 5 2 is that it gives Harry an alternative with VDV that also allows us to have two out and out strikers. He did play him right midfield one game but VDV would not like it. Modric Huddlestone VDV in a central 3 would be very useful.
 
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